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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: brandons66 on Thursday 11 August 16 03:46 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone, first time posting here! I was hoping to maybe get some information from people on here, considering the Lithuanian board onAncestry is empty.
Here is my problem, I know the names of the great great grandfather and grandmother. Anton Lutus and Anna Koverita. They were married in Lithuania in the late 1890's. However, I found some discrepancies when comparing my grandparents birth location to that of other records. Some records stated they were born in Poland, others Russia. That feel like a pretty big geographical gap for census reporters to mess up on.
I was curious if anyone knows of any good websites to find more about my grandparents and their families? As of right now, I have US census information, Immigration information, and naturalization information, but none of that lists their parents, siblings, or place of birth.
Thank you
-Brandon
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Hiya Brandon and welcome to Rootschat
is it Anton or Antoin ??
Antoin Lutus b 1873 - went to live in Suffolk ,Massachussetts ,USA - died 1940
is this the man you have in your tree ?? if so in the familytree I found he is down as Antoin
ADDED I presume you have seen these
ANNA LUTUS (FEMALE)
BIRTH: 1881
BIRTH PLACE: Lithuania
COUNTY: Suffolk
RESIDENCE: 1161 Dorchester Avenue
Boston, Suffolk, Massachusetts
................................................................................................
ANTOIN LUTUS (MALE)
BIRTH: 1873
BIRTH PLACE: Lithuania
COUNTY: Suffolk
RESIDENCE: 1161 Dorchester Avenue
Boston, Suffolk, Massachusetts
www.geneanet.org
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I believe it is Anton. I have a 1940 census record that put my grandfather's name down as Antoin. The census records before that all put his name down as Anton, so I am assuming that it was an error on the individuals part who was doing the census records in his neighborhood. Everything else, including the address, spouse, occupation, and people living in the house at the time for the census between 1910-40 are all correct, except for the 1940 census with his name.
In addition, he did live in Suffolk Massachusetts, considering that is where his home was located in the 1910-1940 census. However, I did just notice some discrepancies on the 1920, 30, and 40's census records. They all have different year dates for when my grandfather arrived in America. One reads in 1899 (1920), another 1910 (1930), and lastly 1901 (1940). they all also have different ways of spelling Anton. Other than that, the address and spouse/children information stayed the same.
Lastly, his last name may have changed to Lutus once he came to America. I need to find the record that shows an alternative for his last name. Once I do, I will update my post.
EDIT: Yes I have seen those! Those addresses and birth years match the census records from 1920, 30, and 40s.
EDIT #2: I found the other spelling for my Grandfather's name. (Antoni Lukazas)
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I would tread carefully because although the name is Lutus - Lithuania - there seems to be quite a few Alutius from Lithuania - which asks the question upon entering USA could Antoin have been misheard - could he have actually have been Alutius .....not trying to confuse you - it is just the research shows
Tony Alutius b 1873 Lithuania Tony presumably is the Anglicised version of Antoin
Antoin Lutus b 1873 Lithuania
2 seperate people , but just be careful you don't get them mixed up :)
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Thank you for your reply and help! :)
I will look at the two census records that state Anton and Antoin, and see if they are the same person.
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I do also have a photo of my Great Great Grandfather and Mother. I posted about it in the photo section of this forum, but I will post it here for you and anyone else.
EDIT:: I re-looked at the 1920, 30, and 40 census records. I thought they might be for different people, but now I am pretty sure they are for the same man. His name was spelled differently in each. In 1920 it was spelled, Anthony Lutus. In 1930 it was spelled, Antone Lutus, and in 1940 it was spelled like, Antoin Lutus. I checked the census for 1930 and 40, and the one from 1930 said he lived in Arlington in 1935. When I checked the 1930 census, his address is listed in Arlington. The 1920 census have his kids in it also, same with the 1930.
I feel pretty confident, at the moment, that this is the correct person.
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As of right now, I have US census information, Immigration information, and naturalization information, but none of that lists their parents, siblings, or place of birth.
You've put slightly different detail on the other thread you've also started today board-
... I do not know, definitely, where they were born. One member, on Ancestry, listed that they were born in Poland. However, US census information plants them in Russia. Now I know there can be discrepancies from Census takers because we are all human after all. We are prone to making a mistake every now and again. With that being said, mixing up Poland and Russia seems like a pretty large mistake to make, even with the USSR not being dissolved during the time of the Census.
Alongside that, I do not know any information about their parents, siblings, or birthplace. I do have census records, immigration records, and a naturalization index.
There is a difference between naturalization index and naturalization record. The index merely refers to the record which will contain far more detail. Some things that would be in the record could include date and place of arrival as well as ship; birthdate and birthplace; name of spouse, children, marriage date, etc.
What 'immigration record' do you have? the passenger manifest for arrival in America should consist of 2 pages and list name and address of nearest relative in home country, physical description, contact in U.S. (often relative or friend from where they were born), etc.
They were married in Lithuania in the late 1890's. However, I found some discrepancies when comparing my grandparents birth location to that of other records. Some records stated they were born in Poland, others Russia. That feel like a pretty big geographical gap for census reporters to mess up on.
The answer is that at various times all of this was correct. Take a look at the history of Lithuania and you will see many changes over the years which explain chances in sovereignty. Briefly, in 14th century Lithuania formed a union with Poland, from 1795 came under Russia until 1918 and remained independent until it came under Russia again until the start of WWII.
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Lots of Lithuanians in South Boston- this club formed 1899- http://sblca.org/
Church there also- http://www.stpeterlithuanianparish.org/parish_life.htm
For at least the first generation, settlers tend to stick together while they learn the language and customs of their new country. Such contact would have helped them find jobs and housing, given them a place to worship, speak their native tongue and possibly keep up with relatives and friends.
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extracts from naturalization record-
Anton Lutus of 1161 Dorchester Ave.
born 25 Dec.1872 Kursenai, Lithuania
married 17 Nov.1901 in Boston to Anna (born 1879 Kursenai)
arrived New York March 1901 on "Augusta Victoria" from Liverpool, England under name of Antoni Lukazas
Now, you can look for the immigration record- www.ellisisland.org is one place. Based on the marriage record you should also search (N.Y. and Boston probably) for Anna's arrival.
Marriage for Antoni Lukszas & Annie Koverati gives his parents as Vincent Lukszas & Petroneli Pocati and her mother as Annie Koverati-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N4C8-H54
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For reference-
1920- lists 2 sons & 2 daughters- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MXY2-9W4
1930- lists 2 sons & 1 daughter- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XQGL-L8Z
1940- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K4V3-F3Z
Naturalization record mentions 2 sons but there were more children-
Antony (17 Sept.1902) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F4G4-L13
Susie (26 Nov.1903) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FXF2-4WD (Marie?)
daughter (1 Mar.1907) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FXJW-BGR (Brone/Bernice?)
Albert (14 Dec.1912) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FXVZ-384
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Brilliant Agadowey. so - Lukszas ....
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Lukszas on his marriage in Boston but naturalization record gives another version which will hopefully be the one on passenger manifest.
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My mother has Lithuanian ancestors, and they all were listed as coming from Russia in the 1910 census. As aghadowey mentioned above, the political issues can impact the country's name. It's also possible that the information came from someone who didn't know for sure or there were language/accent issues between the informant and the census taker.
Having the year of immigration vary from census to census is pretty common. People forget, or the informant didn't know for sure. You might also want to keep in mind the possibility that they went home for a visit and came back again.
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arrived New York March 1901 on "Augusta Victoria" from Liverpool, England under name of Antoni Lukazas
The petition for naturalization, which was filed in 1904, says he arrived in New York on 22 Mar. 1900 and was born 25 Dec. 1873. His name was listed as Anton Luksza.
I haven't had any luck so far on finding a passenger list for the Augusta/Auguste Victoria with either of those dates.
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That must be a different record, shellyesq. The one I saw was from 1940s and did give 2 different dates of arrival but only the second date had full details. Will see if I can find it again.
Added-
declaration of intention 11 Jan.1943, oath of allegiance 25 June 1945
It was Anna who arrived in New York in Sept.1900- Anton's date as posted earlier.
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The ship August(a/e) Victoria of the Hamburg America Line doesn't seem to fit with a departure from Liverpool. There was a later different ship with a similar name called Kaiserin Auguste Victoria (Cunard Line) that sailed in and out of Liverpool. One of my relatives sailed from New York to Liverpool on it in 1920.
Blue
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It looks like the SS Kaiserin Auguste Victoria was built too late to fit trips from 1900-1901. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Empress_of_Scotland_(1906)
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Yes as I said different ship but the name may come up as it had a Liverpool link and a similar name. The earlier ship was more likely to sail in and out of Southampton rather than Liverpool.
Blue
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oh wow!!! Thank you so much everyone, for the help. I apologize that I couldn't be on here sooner to thank all of you!
I tried looking for my grandfather and grandmother on Ellis Island's passenger logs, but I couldn't find anything. I was told by the staff that I would just have to scour through the logs to find anyone that looked familiar. My problem is, if his name was added in incorrectly, it feels like I am looking for a needle in a haystack!
Again thank you so much everyone, for your help! This was amazing to wake up to this morning!
:)
And a big shoutout to aghadowey. All that information was important to know!
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We aren't finished yet ;)
Think I found his arrival in New York (details slightly different than naturalization paperwork)-
22 Mar.1900 "Astoria" arrived N.Y, from Glasgow, Scotland:
Anton Luksus, 27, single, labr, residence- Kursan, $17, going to Josef Loses [?] Boston, Mass.
can't find a 2nd page of manifest but there is a supplimental page-
country- Russian, Province- Romo, mother tongue- Lithuanian
next entry-
Paul Urban, 28, tailor, Kursan, also giving U.S. contact as Joseph Loses [?] Boston, Mass.
Added- Kursan (in above manifest) is another form of Kursenai (birthplace on naturalization record). What I'm not sure of is word I've transcribed as 'Romo' as I can't fit this into the area geographically.
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That sounds about right for his information. I might try and see if Scotland was keeping a log of their own. Maybe I can get more information from that. Thanks again! :)
ADDED: I may have found his departure log in Glasgow.
10 MARCH 1900 Astoria left Glasgow, Scotland. Anton Luksar, age 28, Labor. Born about 1872. Shipping Line; Anchor Line
Master: Wadsworth.
Now my question is, can I use this information to somehow trace his journey to Scotland from Lithuanian, or Russia.
EDIT #!: It looks like Anton Luksar might be a different person! His Ellis Island log doesn't list a place of last known residence. Luksus did, and it was krusenai
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Also, reading on Ancestry's website. Apparently, there was a six-week residency period, before immigrants could be allowed passage to the United States
"Between 1890 and 1920, among the highest tonnage of ships were leaving British ports bound for North America. Many passengers were emigrants from Britain, Ireland and Europe. European emigrants bound for America entered the United Kingdom because travelling steerage was less expensive from a British port than from a port in Europe. The shipping companies imposed restrictions on passengers registering; passengers had to have British residency of six weeks to qualify. Many passengers too impatient to qualify for residency changed their names to avoid detection.""
What I am now curious about is if my Grandfather changed his name? Or took up residency somewhere? Would his residency be cataloged? Where did Immigrants fleeing Europe stay during this time period?
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EDIT #!: It looks like Anton Luksar might be a different person! His Ellis Island log doesn't list a place of last known residence. Luksus did, and it was krusenai
On Ellis Island using the passenger search it does list "Last Residence" as Kursan. The text version further below (listed on page 2 of 3) transcribes it also as Kursan. It is frame 21 for your Anton Luksus. Note there is an Anton Luksar on frame 18!
Blue
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Here is the brief transcript on Family Search:-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JX89-WMC
Blue
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So which Anton appears to be the right one? I have a departure log from Scotland that shows Anton Luksar, but I couldn't find Anton Luksus, or any other Anton on the same boat to New York.
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"Astoria" departed Glasgow 10 Mar.1900. The outgoing passenger lists give minimal detail but the whole page are very 'un-Scottish' names!
Anton Luksus on line #8 (Paul Urban line #9) so this is certainly the correct one- trouble is they've transcribed is age as 97 instead of 27!
(I searched for a departure 10 Mar.1900, keyword Astoria and first name Anton to find him)
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Yes I see that as well! I have the list from Ancestry of the Astoria's passenger log. I have Anton Luksar, 28, 10 March 1900. And Anton Luksus, 91, 10 March 1900.
With Luksus's name put down as 91, is there a chance that someone would have made that BIG of a mistake? They had to be present in front of the person when they were transcribing the information right? That way they could easily tell that my grandfather was not 91, but 28.
EDIT: There is also a Olif Luksar, but that is a big difference in name change.
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The problem wasn't the clerk writing down the age but the transcriber inputting the data into a computer programme!
Next step looking for Anna's arrival?
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Okay! Thank you so much everyone, again! I really do appreciate it!
I am now in contact with the National Archiver of Lithuania. I am hoping to find more information on my grandfather's mom and dad, soon!
My Grandmother, from what I understand she came about a year later with a son(?) I believe. Anna Koverito or Kovorito.
I will begin the search!
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The ship mistake was easy to make for non-English speakers they are both A*toria names. Emigrants could get confused about UK ports so that was an easy mistake too.
Blue
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I may have found one lead. Annie Kovrat. Came over a year later, after my Grandfather. She arrived in May of 1901, at age 19/20. My grandmother married my grandfather in November 17th 1901.
I need to double check some documents, ones that state whether she could read or write, to see if they match up with the Passenger log on Ellis Island.
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Added- Kursan (in above manifest) is another form of Kursenai (birthplace on naturalization record). What I'm not sure of is word I've transcribed as 'Romo' as I can't fit this into the area geographically.
from Wikipedia
"The estate of Kurshan was under Russian rule from 1795 to 1914, first in the Vilna Governorate and from 1843 in the Kovno Governorate."
Kovno could be read as Romo?
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Thank you, Johnin. I did more research, Annie Korvat is definitely not her! So back to the drawing boards!
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Hi! I am actually looking for this same info. I don't know how old this post is but these are my great grandparents. I found that Lithuania was actually Russia in 1910 when they immigrated to the US but not sure where Poland comes into it.
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This post is from 2016, and the original poster hasn't been active since then, but maybe you'll get lucky and he'll return.