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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Mustang Sally on Tuesday 02 August 16 01:04 BST (UK)
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I finally found detailed obituaries for my husband's great grandma and family on Papers Past. The obituaries stated that Alexander Allan and family came to NZ aboard the "Helenslee" in 1864. They originally settled in Pokeno and were witness to many events of the early pioneers (at end of Maori Wars).
Alexander then apparently was at the opening of the Thames goldfield where he put down the Golden Gate Shaft. Then he was one of the original owners of the coal measures subsequently operated by the Taupiri Coal Mines at Huntly. Then he went onto to farm near Te Rapa before retiring to Papakura where he died in 1912. he is buried at Papakura with his second wife and a daughter from his first marriage.
This was a "brick wall" that I had been trying to break for some time.
Does anyone know any more about the Golden Gate shaft in its early days/ or the coal measures at Huntly?
:)
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Hi Mustang Sally,
You have posted to a topic on the New Zealand Resources Board.
I think you are likely to get more views and information if I split off your post and create a new topic for you and place it on the main New Zealand Board.
Spades
Moderator
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Hi again,
Papers Past might provide the answers to some of your questions with articles such as this one;
Thames Advertiser, 11 September 1874, Page 3: WARDENS COURT.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/THA18740911.2.14
The Thames Treasury website might also hold some information. They do charge for research.
http://www.thetreasury.org.nz/
Also search Archives New Zealand.
https://archway.archives.govt.nz/
Spades
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An account of the voyage of the Helenslee together with her passenger list.......
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/DSC18641223.2.4.1
Minniehaha.
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1869 may have been when Golden Gate activities got underway.....
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH18690907.2.13
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/DSC18691216.2.25
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/DSC18690719.2.37
Minniehaha.
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Huntly coal history...
Te Ara.
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/waikato-places/page-4
Waikato Coalfields Museum. The museum staff might be able to assist further.
http://waikatocoalfieldsmuseum.weebly.com/
Spades
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Thank you for the help.
I have only started using this site so your guidance is appreciated.
Thankyou minniehaha for the suggested Papers Past Sites.
The "Allan" family don't seem to have stayed in any place for long.
Alexander, the father, was a miner according another passenger list that I have seen. They were part of the "Waikato Immigration Scheme".
I think they were in Komakorau Waikato (near Gordonton) in 1881 per the Electoral Rolls.
I believe Mary Allan passed away in 1880 and Alexander remarried a Mary Ann Wood in 1881.
Daughter , Ellen, married in 1891 at Allandale, Pukete in the Waikato to William Wallace.
William Wallace went on to do a lot of Community Volunteer work. He was Mayor of Birkenhead from 1912-1915, on the Auckland Harbour Board, the Chairman of the Auckland Hospital Board etc etc. He mixed with Michael Joseph Savage and even had a wing of the Auckland Hospital named after him.
I don't think Alexander Allan was as newsworthy.
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Hi,
Do you have a Francis Bowen ALLEN in the family?
http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-Cyc02Cycl-t1-body1-d1-d63-d35.html
Spades
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Is the correct spelling ALLAN or ALLEN??
Minniehaha.
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Correct spelling is "Allan".
Although I have found records under "Allen".
Ellen's marriage cert shows "Allan"
Family had lived in Galston Ayrshire Scotland , which is noted for mining.
Alexander and Mary Allan were both 23 at the time of travel aboard "Helenslee".
Ellen was actually Helen on her birth certificate!
Ellen named one of her sons "Robert Allan" ... I presume this follows the Scottish tradition of giving children a historical surname as a middle name.
I've made a list of possible offspring in NZ but am only certain about one - Jeanett born 1866, died 1939 and buried at Papakura.
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Hi,
If you search NZBDM you'll see two children (born 1876 and 1878) to Alexander and Ellen ALLEN, but try other surname spellings as well.
https://www.bdmonline.dia.govt.nz/
Spades
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Thanks Spades.
I have about 12 names from 1865-1878 with parents Alexander and Mary Allan from NZBDM.
I think I may need to obtain Mary's 1880 death cert to confirm details of living children at that date.
That will also clarify my suspicions re her parentage and their whereabouts / possible burial site. I suspect that baby Alexander who came from Scotland died young as I can find no mention of him and there are a couple of additional births with that name in 1865 and 1869.
Also James Corbett Allan born 1872 is likely as Corbett was Mary's maiden name.
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Possible children born in New Zealand.....
1869/16965 Allan Alexander* Mary Alexander -
1866/11406 Allan Jeannett Mary Alexander -
1872/16908 Allan James Corbett Mary Alexander -
1868/15686 Allan Mary Mary Alexander
1867/27069 Allan Adelaide Mary Mary Alexander
1875/12843 Allan Agnes Mary Alexander
*I think there was an Alexander who came to New Zealand with his parents in 1864?
Minniehaha.
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Thanks Minniehaha.
Some other possibilities were;
Mary Corbett Allen b 1874 d 1874 aged 2 m
Annie Jane Allan /Allen b 1877 d 1878 aged 1y
Janet Margaret Allen b 1869
I have ordered Mary Allan's 1880 death cert and Alexander Allan's 1881 marriage cert so will keep you updated.
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Hi,
For future reference it pays to purchase "printouts" they often have more information,are no prone to transcription errors and as a bonus they are cheaper
Cheers Janette
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Hi Janette,
Thank you for the advice.
I said "certs" but it was actually the cheaper "printouts" that I requested.
I found that even the "printouts" can be difficult to decipher so I am hoping that Alexander Allan's marriage "printout" will give his mother's maiden name as I could not decipher it on his death "printout".
Mustang Sally
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I found that even the "printouts" can be difficult to decipher so I am hoping that Alexander Allan's marriage "printout" will give his mother's maiden name as I could not decipher it on his death "printout".
Maybe if you post an image we can help to decipher?
Take no notice of variants of spellings....all too often people are fixated on a certain spelling which can cause them to lose out on important info. which they readily dismiss.
I have a family name with something like 8+ variants & had I dismissed them I would not be where I am today with my research.
I have to say though, it has been expensive as I've bought so many wrong certs. to find them, knowing they existed on census records but what the spelling was on BMD's was a different story ;D
Annie
ADDED.....As it happens, I'm descended from the surname of Allen/Allan (Scotland) which differs too!
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Hi Rosinish
Attached is a copy of the death print out as suggested.
I can decipher most of it apart from Mother's maiden name and father's rank/profession
Mother's maiden name seems to start "Sha????fool"
Any thoughts would be appreciated otherwise I shall be patient and hope that the marriage printout gives me the information that I am seeking.
I know that Alexander lived in Galston Ayrshire before emigrating and was a Quarrier and Miner.
I believe the offer of land was too great to pass up.
The family began their time in NZ in Pokeno (Queen's Redoubt).
They arrived following the Maori Wars, so their start in NZ was pretty tough.
Mustang Sally
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Hi MS,
I think the occupation is "Mechanic'.
My interpretation of the surname:
SHARSTAIRFOOL/T
SHARSTAINFOOL/T
I suggest looking for their marriage in Scotland.
Spades
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Look on Freecen Scotland to see if they appear in any census.
http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
And search the Scottish Marriage Index to see if anyone has submitted a certificate.
http://www.anglo-scots.mlfhs.org.uk/
The Scottish Marriage Index is an excellent resource. I would strongly recommend to everyone with Scottish ancestry that you submit information from marriage certificates (of any country) where one or both parties are of Scottish birth.
Spades
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Gee that is a tricky one!
I wonder if the name begins as SHAW.......?
Minniehaha.
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Hi Minniehaha,
You might be right. It reads better as well.
Do you agree with 'Mechanic'?
Spades
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Thank you for your input.
"Mechanic" sounds good.
I believe from my searching on "Family Search" (Index # M11628-1) that:
Alexander Allan married Mary Corbett on 6 Jan 1862 , Cambusnethan, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
That doesn't show me their parents though.
I believe that I know Mary's parents but am awaiting her death "printout" to confirm.
I didn't know of those websites so thank you for those.
Mustang Sally :)
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Not sure about Mechanic Spades. Two reasons. Might that be too 'modern'* an occupation? And I rather think there may be too many letters?
*Probably end up with egg on the face with that comment. :P
Minniehaha.
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Had a thought;
Maybe he was a "Mason" or "Miner" which would be in keeping with his son's occupation.
In those time didn't sons follow their dad?
MS
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There was a reunion of Helenslee passengers in 1909, with a photograph taken.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01i4l/
Mechanic was the contemporary term given to industrial craftsmen and artisans.
Spades
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Hello...
Just curious... have you complained (in a nice way) to BDM NZ that the scan quality is so poor.
You should send an email back to them with the scan attached and demand (in a nice way) a rescan.
Or at least ask them to check the register for the maiden name and father's occupation as the scan is illegible.
Nothing ventured...
Regards
Beg (a veteran of tens of thousands of images scanned) :)
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I believe from my searching on "Family Search" (Index # M11628-1) that:
Alexander Allan married Mary Corbett on 6 Jan 1862 , Cambusnethan, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
That doesn't show me their parents though.
Hi Mustang Sally
In the 1861 Scotland Census, Lanarkshire > Cambusnethan > Town: Wishaw > I think the Alexander ALLAN aged 20 - coalminer - born: Shotts, Lanarkshire, and residing at Campbell Street with Janet Anderson*, widow, 65, housekeeper, is probably your man.
[* Surname is given as "ANDERSON" ? ]
Also in the same locality (again at Campbell Street) >
James CORBET - 58 - Ag. Lab. - born Lanarkshire - Cambusnethan
Helen B. CORBET - wife - 49 - born Liff, Forfarshire (Angus)
Mary CORBET - dau - 20 years - b. Lanarkshire
Alexander CORBET - son - 16 years - porter - b. Lanarkshire
[Note: The marriage record (@ familysearch ) for Alexander ALLAN - 6 January 1862 - at Cambusnethan shows spelling of bride's surname as "CORBET" - with just one "T" (Mary CORBET). ]
You can view these census returns at the FREE CEN link provided earlier by Spades.
[I'd found them via other resources ... the info though, matches. ]
Look on Freecen Scotland to see if they appear in any census.
http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
~ Lu
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Hi again
Can't really help with deciphering the "maiden surname" of Alexander ALLAN's mother as given on his death cert.
SH .... .. ford ??? [My guess is that the ending of name might be ..."ford" ?? ]
In 1851, the ALLAN family are living at > Old Monkland > Lanarkshire > Bailliestown.
ALLAN - Alexander - 58 - occupation: Flesher* - born Lanark. - Bothwell
ALLAN - Janet - wife - 55 - . b. Old Monkland
ALLAN - Agnes - daughter - 19 - dressmaker - b. Lanark. - Cambusnethan
ALLAN - Alexander - son - scholar - b. Lanarkshire - Shotts
[* Occupation: according to www.scotsfamily.com/occupations.htm
a "Flesher" is a butcher. ]
~ Lu
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Mmmm ...
This marriage took place at Old Monkland, Lanarkshire (birthplace of Janet ALLAN in 1851 Scotland census ? )
Alexander ALLAN
Janet ANDERSON
27 June 1822
Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
???
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This marriage took place at Old Monkland, Lanarkshire (birthplace of Janet ALLAN in 1851 Scotland census ? )
Alexander ALLAN
Janet ANDERSON
27 June 1822
Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Lucy,
Looks good but.....
What I'm not sure of is.......on the image it has;
Janet Anderson Allan
Formerly "Sha........"?
This would imply either a previous marriage or is "Sha....." her maiden name?
Confused.com ??? ::) ;D
Annie
ADDED.....I have seen English records where "formerly" means maiden name although Scottish records use "M.S" as Maiden Surname & "Formerly" for a previous marriage surname hence why I'm confused with this ::)
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Hi ...
Have just solved the mystery of "Sha...foot" which appears on the NZ d/c for Alexander ALLAN. ;D
... see next post >
~ Lu
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1841 - Scotland Census
Shotts > Lanarkshire
ALLAN
- Alexr. (male) -45 - bc 1796
- Janet - 45 - bc 1796
- Robt - 15 - bc 1826
- Willm - 13 - bc 1828
- James - 12 - bc 1829
- Agness - 10 - bc 1831
- Gavin - 7 - bc 1834
- Janet - 5 - bc 1836
- Alexr. - 1 - bc 1840
GRAY - Agnes - (female) - 70 - bc 1771
ANDERSON - Alexr. (male) - 7 - bc 1834
... all above persons born Lanarkshire, Scotland
House name / Street : Shawtownfoot
Parish (or Townland) : Shotts
So, Shawtownfoot seems to be a placename rather than the maiden surname of Janet (mother of Alexander ALLAN (d. 1912 - NZ). ;)
[The marriage > 27 June 1822 > at Old Monkland, Lanarkshire between Alexander ALLAN and Janet ANDERSON, (posted earlier) now seems a real possibility. ]
~ Lu
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Good work Lucy....what a confusion ::) but now solved.
Would have made all the difference if the word "of" had been inserted...."formerly of"
Annie
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Thank you everybody...you're brilliant!
Lucy, I had seen that 1851 census and had wondered if it fit as some of the names fit with birth names that we had reviewed in NZ from 1864-1880.
Spades... I had a look at the reunion photo 1909 and then went looking for supporting news articles in papers past. I'm beginning to wonder if the infant Alexander was one of the 14 deaths (12 were infants) during the voyage of the "Helenslee"? There would be a Superintendent's report of the crossing which might show the names of the deceased but I'm not sure where to find that. Any thoughts?
Lucy,
The "Corbet" family is the one I have identified as being my husband's ancestors. They seem to spell their names with/without the extra "T". "Ballantyne" was Ellen Allan's middle name.
Mustang Sally ;D
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Hi MS,
Congratulations on your discoveries and on getting an accurate interpretation of that word - Shawtownfoot.
I had wondered if the infant Alexander might have died on the voyage. The problem is that Surgeon Superintendents reports vary widely in detail and might often give little more that the number of deaths or births, although in the latter case the mother was often named (I assume in lieu of a birth certificate).
I would suggest that you search Archway for any reports, particularly correspondence, relating to this voyage of the Helenslee to see if you can find more information.
https://archway.archives.govt.nz/
Failing that, try Auckland Museum, the New Zealand Society of Genealogists, or local history branches.
Spades
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Thinking on, see if you can find images of the original passenger list. The names of passengers who died en route were often crossed out or the word 'Died' added to their listing.
Spades
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I believe from my searching on "Family Search" (Index # M11628-1) that:
Alexander Allan married Mary Corbett on 6 Jan 1862 , Cambusnethan, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
That doesn't show me their parents though.
The only place you will find parent's names is on the cert. downloadable from scotlandspeople which names both sets of parents & both mother's maiden names.
Annie