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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: ruthi on Monday 01 August 16 07:03 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Could someone please help with his household examination record?
Varmland/Grums/H.E. 1802-1808 (AI:6) page 70 Nedra Ashammer
I am interested in the Maja Asell born 1784. She married Daniel Anderson in 1805 listed as a hand shortly under her name. The son Eric born in 1806 is Maja and Daniel's son. The entry looks unusual. Looks like Maja's mother was also Maja but no father listed? Can't quite figure out all the people listed with the family. the note beside Daniel's name could be helpful as I have not yet found his parents.
Thank you for any help you can offer. Ruthi
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Hi ruthi
Farmer's widow Maja Larsdotter Asell
Daughter Maja
Eric
Farmhand Lars Olsson
Tennant Maid Anna Ersdotter
Jan Nilsson
Farmhand Daniel Andersson - Wäsby 1803
Boy Lars Jansson
You will find Daniel Andersson in Wäsby village on page 167.
The column with the notes in are: "Flytter"; "Från"; "Till" - "Move"; "From"; "To".
The village and year is usually noted, sometimes a page number.
Ian
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Maja's surname is Åsell, not Asell. Pronounced "Oarsell".
Ian
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Thank you Ian. This is a great help. I was able to find my Daniel Anderson in Wäsby and before that in Sem Södra. The H.E in Sem Södra gives where he moved in from but I just cannot make any sense out of the place name. He's in the second grouping, something like Vormskog? I could not find anything close to that spelling if that is a place in Grums parish.
Would appreciate your best guess on place names.
Thank you so much. Ruthi
having trouble with att. size will sent next post and ? on Maja.
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Hi and you're welcome.
He was still in the same place in the previous book: Grums AI:5 (1796-1802) Bild 78 / sid 74
Ian
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Hi Ian,
The info you helped with for Maja Åsell took me back to an indication where she moved from before she was in Åshammer Nédra. Again I am having trouble matching possible placenames. On the 1796-1802 H.E. it looks like she moved from something like Edsfok. I'm wondering if she moved from Ed Parish to Grums Parish? I will just need to look thru all of Ed? Since Maja's mother used the name Maja Larsdotter Åsell in 1802 and Maja Åsell in 1796 I'm thinking she will be found in the Edsfok place as Maja Åsell or Larsdotter Åsell if she is already widowed. If her husband is alive he should be named ..... Åsell and she could just be Maja Larsdotter. Don't think 've run across a woman using both her maiden name and her husband's name.
Thanks for you best guess on place name.
Wow, just got an alert you responded. need to go look. Ruthi
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I had already found them for you:
Ed AI:2 (1783-1792) Bild 115 / sid 108
and
Ed AI:3 (1794-1799) Bild 114 / sid 108
Ian
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........from something like Edsfok.
It says Edssok. Ed Socken. Ed Parish.
Ian
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Thank you, again. Your help is amazing. Does feel good that I was close on the Ed Parish guess . Maybe there is hope for me yet!
Much appreciated. Ruthi
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Cheers.
If you need any further help just ask. According to the later Household Examination Books Maja and Daniel's birth years differ from the earlier ones. I have also found some more records and Estate/Wills if you are interested.
It is late here in Sweden now.
Ian
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All H.E. found so far seem to indicate Maja Åsell, who married Daniel Anderson was born in Grums. Parents seemed to move back and forth between Ed and Grums. Have not found her birth yet, 1784 or 1786 but did find her older sister, Cajfa, in 1782 in Grums. Having some trouble figuring out a couple of words. Could someone please take a look?
Värmland, Grums, Birth, 1761-1816 (c:2) May 25 / 26 1782
Cajfa Eric Åsell ?????
???? Maria Larsdotter ibid
I don't think the words in question will tell me anything about my primary person Maja Åsell, Cajfa's sister, but may give me where parents were form before marriage, with the word ibid I'm assuming they were from same place.
Thanks for any help. Ruthi
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Hi
Born 25 May and Christened 26 May.
Eric Åsell from Säm (Sem) and his wife Maria Larsdotter from here.
Witnesses: Nils Bryngelsson; Eskel Persson in Malsjö and wife Stina Hansdotter in Säm and Catarina Olsdotter in Stockenid.
Eric Åsell uti Säm och dess hustru Maria Larsdotter ibid.
T (Testes): Nils Bryngelsson; Eskel Persson i Malsjö. Hustru Stina Hansdotter i Säm och Catarina Olsdotter i Stockenid.
Ian
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I have also looked for Maja's birth without success. You could look into the other surrounding Parishes: Nor, Grums, Ed, Segerstad and Borgvik.
But her birth may not have been recorded for some reason. I have seen this before though quite rare.
You will find the village/farm Säm (Sem) in the books.
Ian
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In trying to establish a timeline for my Åsell family some things are starting to make sense. From 1778 to 1785 it appears they are living in Grums, Norra Säm (or Sem). The daughter Caijfa enters the HE accounting in 1782 which is what I expect and the location of Grums shows later place references to be correct. This H.E ends in 1785 without the appearance of daughter Maja which points to the possible 1786 d.o.b. for her. I now have a time gap until they appear in Ed, Sundängen in 1791. I will be hunting for that time period.
The record I'm attaching from 1778-1785 seems to indicate they were living in some sort of community arrangement. I'm not sure I've seen a record like this before as the parents, at the top are not immediately followed by daughter Caijfa (1782). Is this living arrangement indicative of a commune of some sort? Any guess appreciated. Ruthi
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The attached is a church accounting record for April 2, 1786 in Grums, Varmland. Since I am trying to find a birth /baptism entry for 1786 I am hoping this entry in April could possibly indicate a fee for a baptism? I am not sure of the two short words after Eric's name. It's odd that if this is a baptism fee, I cannot yet find the baptism recorded close to this date. Any help on this translation?
thank you Ruthi
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Can you give me the book and page of the last image please.
Ian
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The record I'm attaching from 1778-1785 seems to indicate they were living in some sort of community arrangement. I'm not sure I've seen a record like this before as the parents, at the top are not immediately followed by daughter Caijfa (1782). Is this living arrangement indicative of a commune of some sort? Any guess appreciated. Ruthi
As you see Caijsa is half-way down meaning that the minister wrote the names of occupants as they arrived. In later books the minister divided the families into sections so as to complete each family with children and workers. This I think is why it looks like this.
Ian
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Säm was quite a large farm. Workers including Eric probably lived in a "stuga" and in return worked on the farmer's land. Here is a page from a book explaining the taxable size of this farm: http://runeberg.org/hgsl/6/0442.html .... starting Säm, Norra, Södra och Mellan. (Säm, North, South and Middle).
This page explains the "mantal": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantal . Just to give you an idea of the farm's size the book states the size of North and Middle Säm as "2 mantal" to the value of 84000 riksdalar. According to this converter: https://translate.google.se/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=http://www.historia.se/Jamforelsepris.htm&prev=search - the price in todays USA Dollar is 1.9 million.
Ian
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The daughter Caijfa enters
Just a note. It looks as though her name was Caijfa but it is actually Caijsa. The "s" just looks like an "f".
Ian
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A Caijsa Åsell born 18 Feb 1881 and then died: Grums C:2 (1761-1816) Bild 32 / sid 57
Ian
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Thank you, Ian. How interesting. Looks like daughter born and died in 1881 was named Caijsa then on right side of page another daughter born next year was also named Caijsa. I missed that. Makes me think the other daughter Maja is hiding there somewhere!
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Hi
Have you missed my reply from yesterday asking about the book and page number?
Ian
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Can you give me the book and page of the last image please.
Hi,
My internet went down for 24 hours, hate it when that happens!
The reference was from Varmland, Grums, Birth/Deaths 1761-1816 (C:2) page 309. it seems to indicate the first Caifa was just a month old when she died, birth in Feb and death in march of 1781. My references are from the citations given on ancestry but believe knowing the location and type of book plus page gives you what you need no matter how you access the book.
Second daughter given same name born in 1782. I believe this was fairly common from the few other instances I've seen.
thank you.
Ian
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Hi
I was referring to the image to Reply #14.
Ian
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The image from reply #14 is from a church accounting book, varmland, grums, 1780-1790 LI:3 page 37
It would appear that all three Asell daughter birth dates are referenced.
Page 17 shows a date of Feb 18, first Caifa birth and bapt.date
page 37 shows second Caifa baptism date
page 95 shows April 2 not sure, hoping it points to Maja's birth or baptism
I am not sure what these entries actually mean. I am assuming some sort of fee is being collected.
I am also making a huge assumption that since Eric Asell is such an uncommon name , that this is in fact the correct person. the first 2 entries in Sem and second in Ashammar fit well with other facts.
I am aware I am not using the correct swedish typing letters but my keyboard keeps freezing when I try to do so.
I find it odd that IF the April 2 1786 date in the church accounting book refers to Maja's birth or baptism, that I cannot find her recorded in the birth book close to that date. .
Again thanks for helping as i plod thru this. Ruthi
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ArkivDigital unfortunately hasn't photographed that book yet. Could you email the 3 pages please, whole pages that is. You should be able to download them.
Ian
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Hi
Thanks for the images. The book looks like a ledger or something. So Erik owed money to the minister in one form or another, it could well be a baptism fee. I do know that the christening was to be held within 8 days after the birth so as not to pay a fee. Also I do know if someone can't pay with money they could pay with food or clothing etc.
Ian
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I thought perhaps the family had moved to another parish in 1785 and had Maria there, but no, they moved to Övre Åshammer in Grums Parish. Maria is there so she was definately born in Grums Parish............ Grums AI:3 (1778-1787) Bild 95 / sid 93.
I am afraid but I believe the minister may have forgotten to record her birth.
Ian
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Thank you Ian. Since the 1781 and 1782 entries in the church accounting book give the dates of two christenings I know it is a guess, but a good one, to infer the third date could be the christening date of my mysterious daughter Maja. Think it's a definite maybe!
Other than the church books is there another civil registry where a birth is recorded? I have always used the church registries as my documentation for birth and have not looked elsewhere. Year in question is 1786.
Thank you for all your help with this piece of our family puzzle. Ruthi
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I am pretty sure that these are all the records to be had.
Ian
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While looking around the books I found these records. You may have them all but I will post them anyway just in case.
House Examinations:
Ed AI:2 (1783-1792) Bild 115 / sid 108
Ed AI:3 (1794-1799) Bild 114 / sid 108
Grums AI:5 (1796-1802) Bild 78 / sid 74
Grums AI:5 (1796-1802) Bild 74 / sid 70
Grums AI:6 (1802-1808) Bild 173 / sid 167
Grums AI:6 (1802-1808) Bild 80 / sid 74
Grums AI:6 (1802-1808) Bild 76 / sid 70
Grums AI:7 (1808-1812) Bild 75 / sid 70
Grums AI:8 (1813-1817) Bild 139 / sid 134
Grums AI:9 (1818-1823) Bild 141 / sid 136
Grums AI:10 (1823-1828) Bild 143 / sid 138
Grums AI:11 (1828-1833) Bild 146 / sid 140
Grums AI:12 (1833-1839) Bild 169 / sid 164
Grums AI:13 (1839-1841) Bild 95 / sid 90
Grums AI:14 (1841-1845) Bild 207 / sid 203
Grums AI:14 (1841-1845) Bild 228 / sid 224
Grums AI:15 (1846-1850) Bild 243 / sid 233
Grums AI:15 (1846-1850) Bild 275 / sid 265
Erik Åsell Death - 14 April 1799: Ed C:3 (1770-1819) Bild 163 / sid 317
Inventory/Wills:
1818 - Maja Larsdotter Åsell - Inventory/Will: Grums häradsrätt FII:13 (1818-1820) Bild 361 / sid 713
1849 - Daniel Andersson - Inventory/Will: Grums häradsrätt FII:22 (1848-1850) Bild 478 / sid 947
I believe this to be Daniel Andersson but cannot be certain.
Daniel Birth 1779: Eskilsäter C:3 (1757-1791) Bild 71 / sid 67
Daniel - House Examination: Eskilsäter AI:2 (1786-1795) Bild 79 / sid 98
Ian
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Hi Ian,
I am carefully going thru all the sources you kindly sent. I had most of them. The two household exams I had not seen actually were very helpful. One giving a death year for Maja Asell.
You give House Exam Eskilsater AI2 1786-95 sid 98 as a possibility for Daniel. When looking at that I can only see one Daniel listed Daniel Simon in top grouping. I'm wondering what made you think this may be Daniel Anderson? It looks like the Daniel listed is taking his mother's surname as a middle name but a crossed out male at top had the given name of Anders. Anders surname is Nords????
I am trying to close the time gap from Daniel in Grums Sodra Sem in 1796 sid 74 backward to the H.E exam mentioned above. I cannot make out where he moved from on the 1796 document. Wondering if that was what made you look at the Eskilsater entry, which makes sense since he was born in Eskilsater.
I cannot access the 2 Inventory and wills documents right now as ancestry does not have them. I think you get those from Arkivdigital which I use on my infrequent trips to the LDS library in Salt Lake. I'll see about taking one of their short term subscriptions as I know they have more than what ancestry bought from genline. they may also have a H.E exam record missing from ancestry.
Grums years 1762-1778 is not on the ancestry list. I usually work up a list of a dozen items to make my short subscriptions worthwhile.
Again, thank you for all the effort you put into tracking down those records. That is above and beyond! Ruthi
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One giving a death year for Maja Asell.
I took the year of her death as 1808. It is actually 1818.
Ian
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You give House Exam Eskilsater AI2 1786-95 sid 98 as a possibility for Daniel. When looking at that I can only see one Daniel listed Daniel Simon in top grouping. I'm wondering what made you think this may be Daniel Anderson? It looks like the Daniel listed is taking his mother's surname as a middle name but a crossed out male at top had the given name of Anders. Anders surname is Nords????
I looked for a Daniel with a father Anders around the years 1778 and found this one. His father was recorded as Anders Nordstedt. The Anders in the household died and Stina had remarried to a Petter Renman.
Ian
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I am trying to close the time gap from Daniel in Grums Sodra Sem in 1796 sid 74 backward to the H.E exam mentioned above. I cannot make out where he moved from on the 1796 document. Wondering if that was what made you look at the Eskilsater entry, which makes sense since he was born in Eskilsater.
Yes, he had moved from Eskilsäter and was also born there.
Ian
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They may also have a H.E exam record missing from ancestry.
Grums years 1762-1778 is not on the ancestry list. I usually work up a list of a dozen items to make my short subscriptions worthwhile.
I don't have that book either so that book probably went missing sometime.
Ian
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Hi: I was hoping someone can help me translate a few Swedish church records to English. Here is one that I believe is of Susanna born 27 Sep 1784 and baptized 3 October in Kråsmåla, Kalmar. She lived at Hinshult farm. If anyone can help with her parents' names (Pers Gustafsson and Sara Persdotter?) and the other words, I would so appreciate it. Thanks!
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Hi
"Yttr: Hinshult.
Pehr Gustavsson och hustru: Sara Pehrsdotters dotter född den: 27 Sept: döpt den: 3 Oct:
Testes. Nils Gustavsson och hustru: Sisu Carlsdotter i Yttr: Hinshult"
Outer Hinshult:
Pehr Gustavsson and wife: Sara Pehrsdotter's daughter born 27 Sept; christened 3 Oct:
Witnesses. Nils Gustavsson and wife: Sisu Carlsdotter at Outer Hinshult.
Ian
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Hi
Can you give me the links to the pages please.
Thanks.
Ian
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No worries I have found the pages. Kråksmåla Parish.
Ian
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Thank you, Ian!! I had the correct record based on your excellent translation. I have a some more that I will post later. If you can help me with those, that would be great. Paul
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https://app.arkivdigital.se/production/index.html?aid=v37910.b2130.s417&page=main/index
Here is the next one: Anders, born 10 Sep 1749.
Thanks, Paul
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Hi,
Cheers Paul.
"Peder Hanssons och hustru Maria Andersdotters barn i Rödsjö född epidem. Testes: Lars Jönsson i Sätra, Dräng Per Månsson ibid och Dräng Hans Larsson i Rödsjö, Brita Jonsdotter i ? , Maria Olufsdotter i Rödsjö. Piga Maria Persdotter i Sätra."
Peder Hansson's and wife Maria Andersdotter's child from Rödsjö born here.
Witnesses: Lars Jönsson from Sätra, Farmhand Per Månsson from here and Farmhand Hans Larsson from Rödsjö, Brita Jonsdotter from ? , Maria Olufsdotter from Rödsjö. Maid Maria Persdotter from Sätra.
Ian
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Awesome, Ian! I will have a few more coming soon. Thank you so much for your help.
Paul
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You're welcome.
Ian
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Here is the next one....death record from 1821 for Anders Persson - Kaga, Östergötland
https://app.arkivdigital.se/production/index.html?aid=v38086.b159.s303&page=main/index
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Hi
"Torpare i Smedstugan på Gistorps egendom, född i Hellestad 1749. Kom desfram 1784. Gift 2 gånger: i första giftet 2 barn 1 dotter däraf lefande - i senare giftet 4 barn, av 3 lefva. Sjuklig flera år af dödskamp - ? - . Enkling Anna Svensdotter.
Dödsorsak: Rödsot - 72 år gammal - Gift."
Croft Owner at Smedstugan on Gistorps property, born in Hällestad 1749. Arrived 1784. Married twice: in the first marriage 2 children, 1 daughter who still lives - in the later marriage 4 children of which 3 still live. Ill for many years of disease - ? - . Widow Anna Svensdotter.
Cause of death: Dysentery - 72 years old - Married.
Ian
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Awesome, Ian! Thanks!
Here is another one....1780 marriage record for Anders and Anna (first part of the record entry). I could not include the complete entry as it was too large. Can you see the rest from the link?
https://app.arkivdigital.se/production/index.html?aid=v37916.b129.s245&page=main/index
Thanks again, Paul
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Hi
Pretty difficult to translate (decypher) as it is in old Swedish legal language. I hope you get the idea....
"den 2 juli wigdes dagkarl och arrendatorn Anders Persson wid Södra Gruvfan och piga Anna Svensdotter i Simmestorp efter 3 lyssningar.
Änkans bouppteckning och barnens afvittring är af den 25 oct 1779 ofirm, vid tinget i Tiellmo af 2 Nov ? är s28 ? ? omyndiga dottern Maria, är fadren
Anders Persson av Häradsrättan till ? förordnad, ? ? bref af 2 Nov 1779 s.10"
on 2 July married day worker and tennant Anders Persson at Södra Grufvan and maid Anna Svensdotter at Simmestorp after 3 Sundays betrothing.
The widow's inventory of estate and the child's inheritance from 25 Oct 1779 at the Court at Tjellmo on 2 Nov ? on page 28. ? ? the minor child Maria, the father is Anders Persson by the appointment of County Court to ? as by the letter dated 2 Nov 1779 page 10
Ian
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Thanks, Ian! This is very helpful.
I have a short one that is a from a 1830-1836 household record in Kraksmala for Nils and Anna, and some writing to the right (about 1833).
https://app.arkivdigital.se/production/index.html?aid=v23045.b52.s93&page=main/index
Again, I appreciate all your help.
Paul
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Hi
Just curious, are these records to do with your ancestors?
Ian
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Hi
Widow Anna was old and frail "bräcklig"
"Nils J. slitit spö för första resan stöld 1833"
Nils J. lashed for first time theft.
"Slitit spö" meant that they were hung up bare back and lashed up to 120 times with long sticks bound together.
Ian
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Oh my! I thought the reference to 1833 would be where he came from or what he did, but not that he had stolen something. Nils is my 3rd great grandfather, born in 1806. He is the only one I cannot find a birth record for although I have scoured several parish books and indexes. I found one that I thought was him, but then it turned out that Nils had died a couple years after being born.
Yes, I am working on my family history. My mother who was born in Connecticut in 1931 is 100% Swedish as all four of her grandparents were born in Sweden. That makes me 50% Swedish. And when I have done different DNA testings, my origins are up to 68% from Scandinavia going back hundreds of years. We visited Sweden once as a family back in the 1980s. I would like to go back again in the next few years.
I have some excellent pictures of my relatives in Sweden before they came to the US in the late 1800s and early 1900s. And I have many other great pictures of them after they settled in Connecticut.
I have found three so far that were illegitimate or oäkta. Seems like a lot of young people lived on those farms together and it was in evitable that illegitimate children would be born.
I have more records I would like you to translate. Let me know if this is too much or I'm sending them too quickly. I respect your time and so appreciate your help. I speak Spanish very well and can read Portuguese to a point (and I am 25% Portuguese), but Swedish has been more difficult for me. I try to use the different websites that help with translation, but there were so many abbreviations used in the Swedish records that I get stuck often.
Thanks again for your help.
Paul
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Hi
No worries, keep them coming.
If you need help just tell me who you want to find and I can lend you a hand. I have access to a lot of info here in Sweden. I am also experienced in the usage of the Swedish Church Books.
Ian
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Just need these few words translated. Does it mean suicide by drowning?
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Yes it does.
"Själfmord genom dränkning."
Suicide by drowning.
Ian
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Hi Ian:
Wow. And she was 65 years old.
Can you help me try to find a birth record (or any pre-1830 record) for Nils (Magnus) Jonsson? All the records I see of him state his birth year was 1806, but no day or month. He married Anna (Lisa) Persdotter on 24 March 1832 in Kråksmåla, Kalmar.
https://app.arkivdigital.se/production/index.html?aid=v39951.b204.s394&page=main/index
Here is a link of Nils, Anna, and their first 2 children from 1836. Could the widow Anna be his mother?
https://app.arkivdigital.se/production/index.html?aid=v23045.b52.s93&page=main/index
He and Anna had 5 children I could find....Lisa Maria, Johan Magnus, Jonas Peter (#1...died), Jonas Peter (#2) who is my 2nd great grandfather, and Helena.
I find him and his family in Kråskmåla for many years. Here is a link for 1843-
https://app.arkivdigital.se/production/index.html?aid=v23049.b142.s135&page=main/index
Maybe you can translate some of the notes on the right. Is Ida Gustafva born 1850 his goddaughter?
He died 4 Aug 1866 of drowning (I think). From the calculated age at death, he may have been born 22 September 1806....but not sure where. I could not find his birth record in Kråksmåla.
https://app.arkivdigital.se/production/index.html?aid=v39960.b25&page=main/index
That's about all I know. If you can help me figure out where he was born and who his parents were (if he was born legitimately), I would so appreciate it.
Thanks, Paul
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Hi
I'll see what I can do.
Ian
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Hi Paul
I don't know if you have noticed but your thread has continued here: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=775099.0
I have posted there already.
Ian
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Hi Ian: No, I didn't. Thanks for the heads up! I really appreciate it.
Paul