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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Maria Goretti on Sunday 31 July 16 00:02 BST (UK)
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Hi, is there anyone on here who goes to Swansea archives? I am looking to find electoral rolls for Francis Farley & his wife Mary Gertrude Farley, she was also knows as "Pat" From 1940 to 1952.
It is almost certain that they where there in 1946 so that would be the best year to start with.
As I live abroad I can't go myself and I can't find them online anywhere.
Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help out, greatly appreciated,
Kindest regards,
Maria
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Electoral registers are normally searchable by address only unless they have been digitised
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Hi Maria
The British Library has registers starting 1947 to date, they weren't compiled 1939-1946 because of the war.
As Rosie mentions though, you will need an address to then be able to work out which constituency, East or West, and then the ward.
What are you trying to establish?
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You might like to consider contacting Swansea Library and ask them if they have any telephone directories that cover 1946 or years around that.
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/askalibrarian
This supposes that the Farleys were on the telephone! If they weren't then this won't help. Have you got anything that may contain an address for them, old letters, postcards?
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Hello & thank you very much for replying to my request.
I am trying to establish what Francis Farley was my aunt Mary Gertrude Clark's husband, and when he died so I can get the death certificate.
The only information I have is their RC church marriage record which states that they were married in Oxton, Birkenhead, Cheshire on the 2 Dec. 1939 and his parents were Thomas Farley & Mary Ann
(No mother's surname).
According to an elderly cousin "They were in Swansea in south Wales in 1946. I do not remember their address, though it was near the railway line down to the shore and I remember coal wagons going by. One day we went to Mumbles, in the Gower Peninsula, where I collected shells on the sandy beach".
Would this information be enough to be able to pin point in what area they lived?
The same cousin states that Francis died in the early 1950s perhaps in Ormskirk, Lancashire because he visited at least Mary Gertrude in this town in the early 1950s, he cant' remember if her husband was still alive. In a search on free bmd from 1945-1955, there are 5 Francis Farley, one at Ormskirk, Lancashire Sep. Q 1953 age 64, which I think would be the best match, however I can't find a Francis Farley born abt. 1888, 1899 son of a Thomas & Mary Ann. The only Thomas & Mary Ann Farley I found on the 1911 census are in Derby and they had only one living child Alice born abt. 1893. She is on the 1901 census.
I think if we could find Francis on the electoral rolls it might get me somewhere.
Sorry for the long rigmarole, any help at all would be greatly appreciated,
Maria
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If you have the church marriage record does it not say what their ages are? Occupation of Thomas? Who are the witnesses?
You seem to have the exact date of the marriage so this presumes that you either have the marriage certificate or you were given this information?
How do you know that Francis' mother is called Mary Ann?
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Yes, I have their RC church record from family search but it doesn't give their ages
here it is
Franciscum Farly
England, Cheshire Non-conformist Records
Name Franciscum Farly
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 02 Dec 1939
Event Place Oxton, Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
Gender Male
Father's Name Thomae
Mother's Name Mariae Annae
Spouse's Name Mariam Gertrudem Clarke
CITING THIS RECORD
"England, Cheshire Non-conformist Records, 1671-1900," database,
FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KFLY-GLP :
accessed 13 August 2015), Franciscum Farly and Mariam Gertrudem Clarke,
02 Dec 1939; citing item4, Oxton, Birkenhead, Cheshire, England, Record Office, Chester;
FHL microfilm 2,149,220.
•
No image available
ENGLAND, CHESHIRE NON-CONFORMIST RECORDS, 1671-1900
GS Film number 2149220
Digital Folder Number 004019278
Image Number 00211
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Sorry I forgot to copy Mary Gertrude Clark'd father is Georgii Goodger Clarke on record.
The surname should be Clark without an "E"
Mary Gertrude Clark is on the 1939 electoral rolls in Birmingham in 1939, that is where she was born in 1904
Many thanks for your help & interest
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Oh I see, latinisation as it were of their names and not the full marriage certificate details.
Hhmm, depends on whether you wish to spend money on obtaining the marriage cert. from the GRO. Certs cost £9.25 each.
Marriages Dec 1939
Clark Mary G Farley Birkenhead 8a 2033
Farley Francis Clark Birkenhead 8a 2033
The GRO cert will give you the ages and occupations of the bride and groom and occupations of the fathers as well as witnesses names.
The info on the marriage cert may help you to find Francis on the 1939 register. Be aware that he may have been known as Frank.
Are you in the UK or abroad? I can't see anything on the GRO website that indicates if it costs more to order from abroad or the same as ordering in the UK. The only way to find out would be to ask them.
At least you already know when Mary was born so Francis may have been born around the same sort of time. He could be a good bit older or even younger, without the cert you won't know.
If he is just Francis then between 1894 and 1919 there are just five registered, two before Mary's birth year and three after. The before are 1900 West Derby, 1901 Leeds and the after are 1908 Lambeth, 1911 West Derby and 1918 Upton.
You may like to explore census records to see if any of these have a father named Thomas.
Anyway I have given you a bit of info to think about and decide whether to wish to follow any of it up.
Good Luck.
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According to an elderly cousin "They were in Swansea in south Wales in 1946. I do not remember their address, though it was near the railway line down to the shore and I remember coal wagons going by. One day we went to Mumbles, in the Gower Peninsula, where I collected shells on the sandy beach".
Would this information be enough to be able to pin point in what area they lived?
I think there are 2 possible areas, both quite large, that this could suggest:
1. Somewhere in the Swansea Valley, where railway lines came south from Morrison (on the west side of the river) and Llansamlet (on the east side), to the railway station/shore. This was the industrialised and far more populous side of Swansea and if the trains were carrying coal, this is probably the more likely.
2. But another possibility would be the Clyne Valley, out of town towards the west, where trains ran through the Clyne Valley from Gowerton to Blackpill. This was a less industrialised route, but there was a brickworks in the Clyne Valley itself so I presume that there would have been some trains carrying fuel.
Mumbles is not actually on Gower but is sometimes called the gateway to Gower! It was a popular day trip from all over Swansea (still is!) and a light tramway ran along the seafront from the centre of the town, passing through Blackpill and on to Mumbles - so I'm afraid that memory wouldn't help locate your family.
Here's a link to old maps which might help you narrow the search if you get some more info:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01i4q/
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Here's something that might be worth checking out:
1891; Fulham, London
Thomas Farley head age 29 or 39, railway guard, b Runcorn, Lancashire (other censuses suggest Ireland)
Mary Ann Farley age 29 b Shoeburyness, Essex
Thomas Harry Farley age 6
Francis Farley age 2 both b Fulham
1901:
Thomas Farley age 48, railway guard
Emily Farley age 34 b Herefordshire
Francis Farley age 10
In 1911 there is a possible sighting of Francis living close to Swansea. The same man may again be living close to Swansea in the 1939 register.
Possible death for Mary Ann Farley
Deaths Dec 1896
Farley Mary Ann 34 Fulham 1a 192
Possible remarriage for Thomas to Emily
Marriages Sep 1898
FARLEY Thomas Fulham 1a 766
Hyde Henry Fulham 1a 766
Jones Emily Fulham 1a 766
Tijou Ellen Mary Fulham 1a 766
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These register entries may be relevant:
Marriages Dec 1911
Farley Francis Neath 11a 1658
Harris Annie Neath 11a 1658
Harris Beatrice Neath 11a 1658
Morgan John Neath 11a 1658
Deaths Mar 1933
Farley Annie H 59 Neath
The Harris surname is relevant when you look at the 1911 census ----
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Thanks very much Girl Guide for your advise, yes, their marriage cert. would probably be my best option right now.
Greatly appreciated,
Maria
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Hi Annie,
Thank you ever so much for all this research, I greatly appreciate all the time you have put into this.
London appears to be very far away from my points of research as people don't appear to have moved very far from their roots back then (my experience). I will keep it all in mind and see if I can get anywhere with it. My problem is I have little or no information to go on except the church marriage and the few notes from an elderly cousin. I never knew this side of my family until fairly recent.
Thanks once again for all your help,
Maria
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People moved around a lot more than I have previously been led to believe. And you already have the suggestion that Francis went between Runcorn and Swansea, whilst Mary Gertrude went from Birmingham to Runcorn and then to Swansea. Swansea to Runcorn would have been quite a long journey - it's still about 5 hours by car - whilst London to Swansea is just a direct line trainline ride away. And the 1911 census states that the person concerned wasn't born locally 8)
Another thought -- if Francis's father Thomas was indeed from Ireland, it's likely that the family was Catholic (and I can tell you that there was not a large Catholic community in Swansea by any means!) That's not proof but again helps point towards the possibility of a Catholic marriage for Francis.
Francis's marriage certificate won't give you his mother's maiden name. It will however give you his father's occupation, Francis's age (or maybe just "over 21"), Francis's occupation and of course his address (which, if this was in Runcorn, may be a red herring). It will also tell you if he was a widow. Those things will help confirm or exclude the Swansea link I've suggested.
Please come back to the thread and let us know what you find!
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Are you in the UK or abroad? I can't see anything on the GRO website that indicates if it costs more to order from abroad or the same as ordering in the UK. The only way to find out would be to ask them.
Just dropping in to confirm that GRO charge £9.25 for a certificate regardless of where you are - no extra postage charge for overseas orders ;D
You just order online and they do the currency conversion.
Carol
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Hi Carol,
Thank you ever so much for info., yes I am overseas but have ordered certs before, I will see to that when I get back from holidays.
Happy Holidays & Summer to all you good folk and once again thanks for all your help.
Kindest regards,
Maria