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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: lnr on Friday 29 July 16 08:00 BST (UK)

Title: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: lnr on Friday 29 July 16 08:00 BST (UK)
 Mary SMITH married William GARDINER 20th July chch 1887 she was 29 Her father was James Smith, mother Margaret nee RYAN.He then marriedEmma Harriet Rowsell 28 July 1906 What happened to Mary? thanks lnr
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: Janette on Friday 29 July 16 08:32 BST (UK)
This looks like her children

1894/7524              Gardiner    Winifred Ellen    Mary   William   
1895/8846              Gardiner    Alfred Henry    Mary   William   
1897/16335      Gardiner    Elsie              Mary   William   
1898/6373              Gardiner    Doris Evelyn    Mary   William   
1900/6741              Gardiner William Archibald    Mary   William

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: minniehaha on Friday 29 July 16 11:46 BST (UK)
When William remarried, was he a widower or divorced?

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: lnr on Saturday 30 July 16 03:06 BST (UK)
on his marriage cert he said he was a widower which he was from his first wife but then it was stated he hadnt seen his wife meaning Mary for 14 years.so if my calculations are right they were only together four years.thanks lnr
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: spades on Saturday 30 July 16 03:28 BST (UK)
Hi Lnr,

From my experience, marriage certificates often provided the date an individual had become a widow/er (i.e. providing proof that they were not committing bigamy).

1906 minus 14 equals 1892. So if that statement is true do those five children found by Janette belong to your William and Mary?

Do you know whether they did have children, if so, their names and dates/places of birth?

Spades





Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: minniehaha on Saturday 30 July 16 03:52 BST (UK)
Do you have William's death printout? This should provide the age of any living children........


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: lnr on Saturday 30 July 16 04:01 BST (UK)
no i dont know if they had any childrenmary was 29 at the marriage date and william42. she was born Liverpool and a spinster..on his death cert 1910 it has only from his first marriage children 4 males and 4 females. thanks lnr
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: spades on Saturday 30 July 16 04:49 BST (UK)
Hi Lnr,

Can I ask, do you have a transcription of the death certificate or a copy of the original document (i.e. what NZ BDM call a 'printout')?

The former should provide the sex and ages of surviving issue.

Spades
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 30 July 16 04:51 BST (UK)
Hi lnr

The birth registrations given in Reply # 1 for GARDINER - children of "Mary and William" - seem unlikely to be for the couple who married in Christchurch.    With the exception of the child "Elsie", all were registered in Auckland.    ???

[The names of the children of William GARDINER - d. 1910 -  are given in his Will (dated 1909) :
You can find this at the familysearch.org website.     You'll know to search under the name of HUMPHRIES for this  ;) ]

Link to NZ Probate files >

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1865481

   ~   Lu

 PS  Have some further info for William and Emma Harriett ... to follow >



Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: kiwihalfpint on Saturday 30 July 16 04:56 BST (UK)
I was wondering if the children were for the right couple, as I had noticed Christchurch on the E/R's and also noticed that the child mentioned above Alfred Henry Gardiner, was buried in Purewa 28 July 1896 at 10 months.


Cheers
KHP
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 30 July 16 05:19 BST (UK)

[The names of the children of William GARDINER - d. 1910 -  are given in his Will (dated 1909) :
You can find this at the familysearch.org website.     You'll know to search under the name of HUMPHRIES for this  ;) ]

Link to NZ Probate files >

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1865481


Hi KHP

I hadn't looked as far as finding the death of the child "Alfred Henry" ... but thanks for that (it helps to put some other info in perspective.)

Just wondering if amongst school records, there might be something for 2 ROWSELL children - namely "Henry Cecil - bc 1885 and Violet Annie - bc 1883".  They were the surviving children of Emma Harriett ROWSELL (who was 3rd wife of this William) and her husband, Henry.    Looking to find where they were living c. 1890- 1896.    ???

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: kiwihalfpint on Saturday 30 July 16 05:36 BST (UK)
Hope this helps. :)

Violet Annie Rowsell was admitted to the Burwood School on 1 April 1889, parent being named as H Rowsell.  At that time they were living in New Brighton.  She left that school on the 21 Dec 1891 as she was going to Richmond.   Birth year was stated as 17 Jun 1883.

Henry Cecil Rowsell was admitted to West Christchurch School on the 28 Jan 1895, parent being named as Mrs Gardiner, they were living at 64 Durham St, he left on the 14 Feb 1898 for Fendalton School.   Birth year was stated as 30 Aug 1885.

There is a Probate for Henry held at Christchurch.  According to another School Record his daughter was named Amelia Hariett.  Only one "R''in Harriett.

Cheers
KHP
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 30 July 16 05:42 BST (UK)
Should probably mention at this point, that the William GARDINER spoken of in this thread, was also known as "William HUMPHRIES", indeed that is the surname under which his 1910 death certificate was issued. [Not sure why lnr hasn't mentioned this ??  ;) ]

The children named in the Will of William HUMPHRIES, (dated 27 January 1909) are as follows :
[There seems to be - 4 x sons and 4 x daughters ???  ]

- John Owen / Lucy Leah / Emily Edith / Rose / Mary / Sidney / Albert / Charles :  {That is my intrepretation of the names}

[Note:   Wife named in will is Emma Harriett HUMPHRIES. ]

   ~  Lu
                                                                                            > continues next >
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 30 July 16 05:50 BST (UK)
Wonderful KHP ... sure does help ... thanks.   :)


Henry Cecil Rowsell was admitted to West Christchurch School on the 28 Jan 1895, parent being named as Mrs Gardiner, they were living at 64 Durham St, he left on the 14 Feb 1898 for Fendalton School.   Birth year was stated as 30 Aug 1885.

Cheers KHP

Emma Harriet ROWSELL ... was using the surname GARDINER in early 1895. 

                                                                                                          next >
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 30 July 16 05:53 BST (UK)
Hi spades

An earlier thread ... might answer some questions ???

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=109798
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 30 July 16 06:20 BST (UK)
on his marriage cert he said he was a widower which he was from his first wife but then it was stated he hadnt seen his wife meaning Mary for 14 years.so if my calculations are right they were only together four years.thanks lnr

Hi lnr

Above info is for the 1906 marriage to Emma Harriet ROWSELL, is that correct ?

So, the wife "Mary - nee SMITH" is "out of the picture" so to speak, from circa 1892 ?
[Incidentally the marriage is indexed as "GARDENER - SMITH -- 1887" . ]

Electoral :

1896 - Canterbury - Christchurch roll

GARDINER - William - fruiterer
GARDINER - Emma - housewife
              ..... both residing at 64 Durham Street, (ChCh)


1900 - Christchurch roll

GARDINER - William - fruiterer
GARDINER - Emma Harriett - domestic duties  -  both at 64 Durham Street


So both the above listings were before the actual marriage (in 1906).

*  Could someone with CD, please check 1893 E/roll for Emma Harriett ROWSELL or GARDINER (I couldn't find her listed ??)

   ~  Lu




Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: kiwihalfpint on Saturday 30 July 16 06:26 BST (UK)
Here you go:

Electoral Roll (1893) - Women

Name : ROWSELL Emma Harriett
Electorate : City of Christchurch
Number : 13869
Residence : Durham Street Sydenham
Occupation : Domestic duties
Year : 1893

Cheers
KHP
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 30 July 16 06:42 BST (UK)
Many thanks, KHP.   :)

Possibly helpful to know she was still using her former married name.

Mmm... couldn't see a death for Henry ROWSELL (prob. hidden under a spelling error ??) the husband of Emma Harriett.  ???   [Though he may of course have "run off" ???]

    ~  Lu

Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: kiwihalfpint on Saturday 30 July 16 07:52 BST (UK)
Could this possibly be another marriage ..... 1911 Emma Harriett Humphries to William Mander?   If so, then there is a Probate at Christchurch Archives.


Cheers
KHP
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 30 July 16 10:27 BST (UK)
Yes, it is, KHP.     

From memory it gives only the names of her two children - Henry Cecil and Violet Annie.
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: kiwihalfpint on Saturday 30 July 16 10:43 BST (UK)
Another school record for Henry Cecil ... was under Harry Rowsell, and mother's name was down as Emma A Rowsell.  In 1892 they were in Bowen Street.

Cheers
KHP

Added: The middle initial could be a transcription error when transcribing.
Title: Re: What happened to Mary Gardiner(nee SMITH)
Post by: lnr on Sunday 31 July 16 04:35 BST (UK)
Hi yes thanks for all this info. I have got most info about this family but am curious why they separated. have seen his will and the copy of his death was a printout and all the ages did correspond to the family still living. The age that he was made a widow was to his first wife( on his marriage cert to Mary) Thanks lnr