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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: paul_mc on Saturday 23 July 16 14:57 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for some help
Here's what I have so far
Margaret HARRIS born Hamilton, Lanarkshire 1807 (No actual birth date or location confirmed)
she went on to marry James Strachan November 6th 1825 Hamilton, Lanarkshire.
They then went on to have 2 kids
Peter born May 17 1830, Hamilton Lanarkshire
Indexed as 'Strachine' in the 1841 Census
and
Ann Strachan
Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland, UK
Feb 27 1828 - I have no further info on Ann but would love some.
At some point Margaret and James divorced - I have no information on that
and she went on to remarry
I have no other info on James - No idea what became of him. Did he die and that's why she remarried or did they part company?
She then married Robert Martin (Birth Moffat, Dumfries Jan 23 1803) who already had 2 kids Mary (B.1829) and John (B. 1831) I have no idea who the mother was of these children but would like to.
I have no idea what became of these children
As a couple Margaret and Robert had 4 children in Hamilton - however 2 must have died young
Elizabeth b.1832 - must have died young
Ann kelly Martin - b 1836 - Appeared on various census's but no record of what happened to her - did she marry? have kids?
Janet b.1838 - Again appears on census' but no idea of what became of her
Margaret 1841 - fails to appear in furure census' so I fear she died young.
Can anyone help me with this
I should mention James Strachan's son Peter is my ancestor.
Thanks in advance
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Hi Paul
Divorce at this time highly improbable. Very likely that James Strachan died and Margaret remarried. Lots of social history, covering all sorts of topics here www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/.
Just adding link to previous post as this helps everyone in seeing what has already been found http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=718479.0
One key note from Alastair there which is useful here now;
The younger James died sometime between 1830 and 1834 in Hamilton, Glasgow. His son Peter Strachan was born 17th May 1830 in Hamilton (indexed as Strachine in the 1841 Census) and James was not described as "deceased" then. His widow Margaret Martin married another Journeyman Shoemaker named Robert Martin. Their marriage was proclaimed in Hamilton on 15th December 1834. Hope this helps. Regards, Alastair MacDonald
Monica :)
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Just re-reading that other post. The main problem you will have is finding any trace of James' death unfortunately. Burial/death details in the OPRs are the worst reported (and even then only about a third of all events show on the remaining OPRs for lots of reasons).
Can I ask something? How have you made the connection between James Strachan, father of Peter, to the couple in Forres who had a son James in 1804?
One thing you could consider is checking local cemeteries' monumental inscriptions. However, there may be no record of that either unfortunately. Not everyone could afford a stone, or stones don't survive over time. Worth checking though.
The most obvious cemetery for the Hamilton area is Bent Cemetery. Some details here www.lanarkshirefhs.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=176.0
Monica
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As a couple Margaret and Robert had 4 children in Hamilton - however 2 must have died young
Elizabeth b.1832 - must have died young
Ann kelly Martin - b 1836 - Appeared on various census's but no record of what happened to her - did she marry? have kids?
Janet b.1838 - Again appears on census' but no idea of what became of her
Margaret 1841 - fails to appear in furure census' so I fear she died young.
If Margaret and Robert Martin married in 1834, daughter Elizabeth born c. 1832 is possibly James Strachan's daughter given the dates?
You have this I am sure, just for background here, the family entry in 1841:
Robert Martin 35 shoemaker b. Scotland
Margaret Martin 36 Tambourer
John Martin 10
Mary Martin 12
Ann Martin 5
Janet Martin 3
Peter Strachan 11
Margt Cunninghan 85 Pauper
Address: New Wynd Hamilton
From this list, there looks to be only two likely Martin/Harris children? You mentioned more? Given they went on to have a daughter Ann Martin, likely Ann Stachan b. 1828 died young and before the birth of Ann Martin c. 1836. Can't see an Elizabeth born c. 1832 nor a Margaret born c. 1841?
Monica
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Possible entry for Robert's daughter Mary's birth in Hamilton. Family Search is playing up to copy the link, but the details on there show as:
Mary Lucan Mairtin
christening: 24 June 1829, HAMILTON, LANARK, SCOTLAND
father: Robert Mairtin
mother: Elisabeth Wright
Marriage or Banns showing as:
Elisabeth Wright & Robert Mairten
marriage: 4 January 1829 Hamilton, Lanark, Scotland
Original images as you know are available to view on Scotlands People.
Monica
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Last one for now ;D
From Margaret Harris' death entry, what were the names given for her parents?
Monica
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Monica this is fantastic
I've gone back and all of the dates match so Elizabeth Wright was the children's mother - I could never have found this out without you as the spelling of Roberts surname changes slightly with each entry.
Margarets parents were Thomas Harris (1783 - ?) and Anne Harris born Cunningham (1785 - ?)
Anne's mother and there for Margaret's Grandmother was called Margaret Cunningham (1756 - ?) I suspect she is who you found on the 1841 census living with her granddaughter and her family
Anything else you can add would be appreciated
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Do you have some definite evidence to prove that James Strachan, born 1804 in Forres, is the one who married Margaret Harris?
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Hey all
This thread is still unresolved so I'm hoping for some more help....
James Strachan (B. 16 Feb 1804) who married Margaret Harris - I just can not find a death for him anywhere - Now I'm wondering if he died in service overseas?
Can anyone help me out?
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James Strachan (B. 16 Feb 1804) who married Margaret Harris - I just can not find a death for him anywhere - Now I'm wondering if he died in service overseas?
He could have done, but the overwhelming likelihood is that he died in Hamilton some time between 1830 (when Peter was baptised) and 1834 (when his widow remarried), and that he was buried there, but that no record of his death has survived. Before 1855 only a minority of deaths were recorded, and those are generally either burial records or records of payments for the use of a mortcloth. You may just have to settle for knowing that he died between 1830 and 1834, though depending on what the original of Elizabeth's baptisms says, you may be able to narrow it down a little.
There could be a record of a mortcloth payment in the Hamilton Kirk Session records, but as these are not online I cannot look at them to check.
Why are you so determined that your James is the son of James Strachan and Margaret Smith, born 16 February 1804 in Forres? As you do not know when your James Strachan died, or how old he was when he died, you cannot be sure of his date of birth, and you must not assume that he is the James Strachan born in Forres in 1804. It is quite a long way from Forres to Hamilton! Unless and until you have some specific and definite evidence to link your James Strachan to Forres, I strongly suggest that you forget about the Forres one and his date of birth, as the chances are that he is a complete red herring.
(For the benefit of other RootsChatters and avoidance of duplication the Forres thread is at http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=718479.9)
I note that James' mother-in-law's given name was Ann(e), and that his first daughter was named Ann(e). This matches the traditional naming pattern. If James and Margaret were following the traditional pattern, it would suggest that James' father was Peter, not James.
The IGI lists two births of James Strachans with father Peter. Neither is especially close to Hamilton, but both are a lot nearer than Forres
- son of Peter Strachan and Elisabeth Ker, born 14 March 1795 in Forfar, Angus. This James Strachan would have been aged 30 in 1825, which is of an age to be married, and Forfar was well known for its shoemakers
- son of Peter Strachan and Katherine Stewart, born 18 June 1806 in Dunfermline, Fife. This one would have been just 19 in 1825 - old enough to be married, though it is a bit unusual for a tradesman like a shoemaker to be in a position to marry and support a family by the age of 19.
There may of course be other James Strachans whose birth and baptism records have not survived.
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Hi Forfarian & anyone else helping.....
3rd of February 1831
Since I began compiling my family tree, some twelve years ago, the final fate of my Great Great Great Grandfather James Strachan has eluded me.
I've finally broken down that brick wall almost by accident. I feel elated and sad all at the same time.
James was born in Hamilton, Lanarkshire in 1800. He lived with his family in New Wynd. A slum by todays standards but probably a pretty normal standard of living back then. He was a shoemaker to trade just like his father.
I knew already that he died young. His wife Margaret brought up their son Peter alone before eventually remarrying. There is no death certificate for James. Death registration wasn't a legal obligation in the UK until 1855 and it cost money. The Strachan's had none.
Tonight, while looking through old digitalised newspapers online I accidentally came across his story. I guess this is his gift to all of our long frustrated family. He's fed up being forgotten and wants his story to be told.
While severe winters and snow storms are common in Scotland, the Winter of 1830/31 was characterised by no such storms. At the time 'Gardeners Societies' started springing up in Scotland. The purpose was a general need amongst working men to secure sickness benefits, pensions and provision for their dependants. Non-gardeners could join most lodges. They were called 'free gardeners' and soon they out-numbered working gardeners. All through the 19th century they continued to found lodges and made up their own rituals and practices, which helped unite the brethren of each lodge.
On the 3rd of February 1831 four men left Hamilton with the intention of travelling to New Cumnock to inaugurate a lodge of free gardeners there. James Wright and George Henderson were weavers to trade and James Strachan and his younger brother Peter were shoemakers, then all members of the Hamilton Olive Lodge.
The journey would be taken by foot and a route was planned from Hamilton via Strathaven and Muirkirk. The journey was estimated to be around 18 hours. Before they reached Strathaven several showers of snow had fallen and it was beginning to gather. They pushed on. They reached Haws Toll and enquired about the safety of continuing but were assured that the 'shillers' (snow plough/road clearers) were out in front of them. The road towards Muirkirk runs southward and is bleak and unforgiving. An ice cold wind attacked them directly with its full force. Henderson and the younger Strachan became ill and both cried out for water. They were given some spirits to drink from a bottle. They continued to walk for 7 miles. It was pitch black and the snow was heavy. It was too late to go back and too late to forge forward. They stopped to rest, hoping they could continue shortly but the darkness overcame them all. Wright was woken some three hours later by James Strachan who had become delirious, his legs heavy with fatigue. The moon was rising and Wright saw that it was 1am. He found Henderson lying on his back breathing heavily, his pet terrier pressed against his body, sharing their heat. He looked up and saw the light of a fire in the distance - a farmhouse - and he made his way to get some aid. John Gibson and his wife owned the farmhouse - Linnburn. John dressed and fetched a neighbour to go to the aid of the men. They arrived back some time later with an unconscious Henderson and both of the Strachan's bodies. When Henderson awoke some time later, three days of his memory were gone. Never to return.
The news of the deaths spread like wildfire and people came from all over to offer help. The bodies were coffined and prepared for return to Hamilton. However it wasn't until the Sunday afternoon that news reached Hamilton - A man travelling from Cumnock to Airdrie carried the message. Amongst the first enquirers he met was Margaret Strachan and to lessen the blow she was about to receive he told her that it was the two weavers who had died and that the two Strachan men were alive.
Henderson and the two dead bodies were brought to Hamilton by cart while Wright made the journey back by foot. The Strachan brothers were buried in the Old Church Yard in Hamilton and a stone erected by their 'brother' gardeners bearing an inscription explaining the circumstances of their deaths.
James and Margaret's son Peter (my great great grandfather) went on to enlist in the 71st Regiment and fought in the Crimean War as well as the Indian Mutiny.
George Henderson never fully recovered and died two years later.
James Wright lived a long life in Hamilton but never forgot his friends. He went to the spot his 'brothers' died every year on the anniversary. He did this for a full fifty years. His last visit being 3rd of February 1881. The Gibson family left the farmhouse but their son became land lord of the Eglington Arms Hotel in Muirkirk.
Margaret Strachan went on to marry Robert Martin in 1834, a shoemaker and friend of her late husband.
Finally James Strachan and his brother Peter are remembered 194 years after their death.
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Well done for solving the mystery but what a sad tale.
Death registration wasn't a legal obligation in the UK until 1855 and it cost money.
Civil registration was introduced in England and Wales in 1837, but, surprisngly, it didn't become obligatory there until the Births and Deaths Registration Act 1874 (37 & 38 Vict. c. 38).
In Scotland registration was introduced in 1855, and it was compulsory from the start. There was no charge or fee for registering a birth or death in Scotland, but there were penalties for late registration and for some other services such as searches and issuing additional certificates.
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Thank you very much for all your help
Now I have a birth and death date for him - I just need to work out who his parents really were - Nothing listed about his little brother Peter either and no approx age for him which would have been helpful. If I could have found parents that matched both....
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Would anyone be able to help me finish off this puzzle.
I now have a confirmed death date for James Strachan. When he died Robert Martin was married to Elizabeth Wright (they married 1829) and had 3 kids
Mary Lucan Martin - I have all her details. No Idea where the Lucan part came from.
John Martin - Born in Hamilton, Lanarkshire on the 7th of November 1830 - He appears on the 1841 Census in Hamilton but then I can't find him.... can anyone help?
Elizabeth Martin born in Hamilton on 3rd of June 1832 - She wasnt on the 1841 census so assume she died young - can anyone help?
Robert Martin married james's widow margaret Strachan (maiden name Harris) in 1834. But what became of Elizabeth Wright. The logical thing to think would be that she also died between 1831 and 1834 however she later turns up on on eof the granchildren's death certificates (which i now can't find)
Any help would really be appreciated
Paul
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Mary Martin or Lees, mother's surname Wright, died in Hamilton in 1902 aged 70.
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Yes I’ve traced her and her husband and kids but can’t find an ending for her mother or her brother or sister