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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: bigt on Thursday 21 July 16 21:01 BST (UK)

Title: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: bigt on Thursday 21 July 16 21:01 BST (UK)
I am trying to find out what happened to Helen Forster, born c1853 in Manchester.  She was the daughter of Robert Forster, born c1816 in Scotland, Joiner.  Mother was Elizabeth.

In 1875 in Manchester, she married a Henry Mares Lockhart, born 1852, Draper, son of Robert Lockhart.  Both give their addresses as Northenden Road, Manchester.  One of the witnesses was an Elizabeth Forster.

I believe the Henry Mares Lockhart to by Henry Myers Lockhart, my GG Uncle, born 1853 at Gatehouse of Fleet, son of Robert Lockhart.

On 14 June 1880, Henry Myers Lockhart joined the Army at the 11 Brigade Depot, Lancaster, and states he is single.

In the 1881 Census he is on a ship and again states he is single.

In 1891, he is back at Gatehouse of Fleet, Kirkcudbrightshire, living with his brother in law and states he is a widower.

In 1901 he is in Ayrshire, and has a wife Margaret, however I cannot find a marriage for him.

At present, I am unable to trace Helen and wonder if she is Ellenor Forster, born c1853, daughter of Robert Forster.  I cannot find an Ellenor Lockhart.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks

Tom
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 21 July 16 23:17 BST (UK)
1881 census shows Helen Lockherd 27 b Manchester married occ nurse  plus 4yr old son Robert b Liverpool - living at Gorton   RG11 Piece 3902 Folio 75 Page 28

Births June qtr 1876 
Robert Lockhart      West Derby    8b   366

Baptisms

Robert Forster Lockhart born 17. 4 1876 Apr
Baptism 19.6.1876 at    Liverpool, St Peter
Father Henry Myers Lockhart occ commercial traveller
Mother    Helen Lockhart
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: LisaRobinson87 on Thursday 21 July 16 23:30 BST (UK)
In 1881 and 1882 Helen and son Robert are in the workhouse so possibly he's left them to find work or deserted them?
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: LisaRobinson87 on Thursday 21 July 16 23:34 BST (UK)
In 1901 i think Robert Jnr is living with a Aunt Catherine L Leech Widowed  born Scotland who is running a Inn or Hotel in Manchester
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: LisaRobinson87 on Thursday 21 July 16 23:54 BST (UK)
I think Helen may also have had another child in 1873 as in 1911 Robert is possibly living with a sister who's name is Winifred Murray widowed has two children. Winifred appears on earlier censuses with Catherine Leech and husband and then on another census with a Mary Forster and she is down as Niece, Winifred has place of birth as Westmorland
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 22 July 16 00:05 BST (UK)
In 1891 Winifred is shown as Lockart
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: bigt on Friday 22 July 16 00:14 BST (UK)
Thanks Carole and Lisa for all your help.

Tom
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 22 July 16 00:16 BST (UK)
Winifred was married to a Robert Murray occ sawyer.  Daughter Thora was baptised 2.4.1911 @ Christ Church Pendlebury.  Address 18 Maurice St Pendlebury

Rather strange when you look at Robert Lockhart's occupation and address in 1911
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: LisaRobinson87 on Friday 22 July 16 00:49 BST (UK)
Winifred was a Elizabeth Winifred Forster she was baptised

First name(s)   Elizabeth Winifred
Last name   Forster
Baptism year   1873
Baptism date   09 Apr 1873
Place   Milnthorpe
County   Westmorland
Country   England
Mother's first name(s)   Helen
Mother's last name   Forster
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: bigt on Friday 22 July 16 01:13 BST (UK)
So, Winifred and Robert Lockhart are either full brother and sister or half brother and sister.

Regarding Winifred's children, I couldn't find the birth of a Roy Murray, born c1905, but did find a Roy Lockhart, born April 1905 at Salford.

I found a marriage in 1931 at Sheffield where a Roy Murray married a Nettie Hemsworth.  States Roy's father was a Roy Murray (dec).

Tom
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 22 July 16 01:47 BST (UK)
I suspect Robert Lockhart & Winifred Forster were living as man & wife and that Robert was the father of the 2 children shown in 1911.  There is no marriage for a Robert Murray to a Winifred Forster
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: bigt on Sunday 24 July 16 21:42 BST (UK)
Got Roy's birth and baptism at Higher Broughton, Manchester in 1905.  Parents are Robert Lockhart and Winifred Forster.

Tom
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Sunday 24 July 16 22:10 BST (UK)
wonder if this is Helen in 1871, in Whitchurch, Shropshire

George Leech    27 - b Whitchurch
Catherine Leech    31 - b Scotland
Thomas Leech    5
Elizabeth Leech    3
Edward Edmonds    68 - lodger
Ellen Forster    17 - visitor, b Manchester. Seamstress

RG10, 2797, 9, 15
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Sunday 24 July 16 22:23 BST (UK)
George Leech,    22, shoemaker of 20 mackworth St, Hulme. Father Thomas Leech, foreman
Catherine Fo[r]ster  22 of 20 Paschett [??] St, Hulme. father Robert Forster, joiner
Marriage    10 Mar 1863,    Manchester, St John

There's a Catherine Forster b c1841 lodging in Manchester in 1861. Her pob is Scotland but it's been annotated on Ancestry as Langholme nr Carlisle

This is 1851, - Langholm, Dumfriesshire

Robert Forster    34 -joiner
Bettie Forster    33
William Forster    15
Cathrine Forster    11
George Forster    9
Mary Forster    6
Eleanor Forster    3
Phillius Forster    10 Mo

this takes us back to the Ellenor Forster you found in Manchester in 1861 - presumably their second daughter of that name



I'm slightly confused by the Robert and Winifred story - I thought they were possibly brother and sister, but appear to have a child? Have I confused something somewhere?
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: bigt on Sunday 24 July 16 22:28 BST (UK)
Hi Mabel,

Yes, it is her.  I believe Helen is actually Ellenor Forster, born c1854 at Manchester, daughter of Robert Forster born c1817, Dumfries, Scotland, and wife Elizabeth.  In 1861, Robert and family are in Manchester.  Catherine Leech is Helen's sister.  At present, still trying to trace Helen's death.

Tom
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 24 July 16 22:30 BST (UK)
Robert Lockhart & Winifred Forster shared the same mother but I very much doubt that Henry Myers Lockhart was Winifred's father.

The surname Murray was probably a "smokescreen" as a half brother and sister living as man and wife and having children was classed as incest and is still illegal today
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: bigt on Sunday 24 July 16 22:38 BST (UK)
To me it looks like half brother and sister have got together, perhaps not knowing they are related.

In 1881, Winifred Lockhart, 8, Niece, born Milnethorpe, is residing with George and Catherine Leech, in Salford.

In 1901, Robert Lockhart, nephew, 24, is residing with Catherine Leech.  Both Winifred and Robert have a mother by the name of Helen Forster.

Common link to me is Catherine, both their aunt.

Tom
Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: Halifax on Tuesday 26 July 16 13:03 BST (UK)
Hello Tom,

My name is Lynne and I am writing for my friend Enid nee Leech .  She has been doing the family history on her Leech/Forster tree for 25 years.  In Langolm  and Salford and Whitchurch and Manchester. 
Her GGM was Catherine Irvine Forster married to George Leech and  they had the Hotel in Manchester/Salford.

She would like to be in touch with you but unfortunately hasn`t access to the Internet.  I would pass on a message to her or you could perhaps phone her??

Let me know,

All good wishes Lynne.

Title: Re: Helen Forster or Lockhart born c1853 in Manchester
Post by: bigt on Tuesday 26 July 16 13:27 BST (UK)
Hi Lynne,

I have sent you a personal message. Hope you get it.

Regards

Tom