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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Argyllshire => Topic started by: Br1gau on Thursday 21 July 16 17:06 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I have two marriage certificates; 1856 and 1869 at Camusnagaul, Kilmallie, Argyll. The celebrant for both was Charles Stewart, FC minister of Fort William, but I cannot find any reference to a church at Camusnagaul. Can anyone help with this?
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Hi Br1gau
I can't see any reference to it so far. The only FC church coming up nearby is mentioned as being in Ballachulish - see https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/Kilmallie,_Argyll,_Scotland_Genealogy#.28north.29_Ballachulish_Free_Church
Am I right in thinking that Camusnagaul is also known as Ardgour (now ferry port)? If so, it is pretty close to Ballachulish isn't it.
Monica :)
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Thanks for looking, Monica,
not really close - Camusnagaul is in the northern part of Ardgour, on the inner elbow of land where Loch Linnhe meets Loch Shiel. Ballachulish is in the area of Onich and Glencoe, on the other side of Loch Linnhe. There was a Free Church in Ballachulish, built in 1874, I believe.
There was also a Free Church tent used in 1844, just one year after the Disruption. Col. Maclean of Ardgour objected to this because 1. It was erected right next to the established Parliamentary church designed by Telford in 1829; 2. The Free Church didn’t ask permission; neither did they pay rent, & 3. The tent was in full view of Col. Maclean’s home at Ardgour House. I don’t know how long the tent stayed in position but Camusnagaul was also owned by the Macleans.
It' a mystery to me! Thought it might be a case of a floating church like the one at Strontian, but if so surely there would be a reference too it
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I think I was looking at the map with sunglasses...of course it is not nearby!
Which are the marriages you were looking at, Br1gau? 1851 and 1861 just seems to show one family of McLachlans at Camusnagaul.
Monica
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Oh, it’s these Boyds again! Two marriages from unrelated families
1856 Ann Boyd from North Garvan, Ardgour, her father, Duncan, was a farmer & Free Church elder, and Duncan Cameron from Sunart (his parents were buried on St Finan’s!)
1869 John Boyd, crofter from Blaich, Ardgour, and Isabella McGregor from Morvern
I too, can only see John McLachlan at Camusnagaul; a spirit dealer in 1841 and a ferryman thereafter.
Re-reading the account of the FC tent, I notice that Col. Maclean did offer to negotiate a suitable site for a FC place of worship in Ardgour, but not right outside his door. Camusnagaul is about as far away from it as one could get!
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In the NRAS Register a bundle of 12 ref NRA 3583/800001 there is an address by Col Maclean to "my tenants and crofters within the bounds of Corran Church who have separated themselves from the establishment," dated Cuil 25th December, 1843 where Col Maclean has plenty to say about the "tent church on seized ground near as to the Parish Church as they could obtain".
The address will give you considerable background up to the erection of the tent and the proposed conditions and support from Maclean for a building site for a another church.
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Hi Carolbea,
Thank you for posting that NRS reference; it was reading Col. Maclean’s address referred to that first prompted me to post here. In this address Col. Maclean objects to the tent and states that if certain criteria were met, ‘I will give you a Site for a House of Worship adequate to your numbers’.
But, although the history of the Free Church is generally very well documented, I can find no reference anywhere to the erection of an actual church building at Camusnagaul or anywhere else in Ardgour. As Monica points out, there is only one residence showing in the censuses at Camusnagaul, occupied by John McLachlan; Innkeeper 1841, spirit dealer, 1861 and ferryman 1881 (13 occupants, so quite large.) I suspect that this building may have been used for the two Boyd weddings.
Regards, brigau
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The 1872 map shows the ferry route from "Camas nan Gall" to the pier at Fort William, and just south of the pier is marked "Free Church & School" (at least I think there's an ampersand between "Church" and "School" - difficult to make out).
1872 Map
https://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html#/Map/210500/773500/12/100750
To bring up the old map, use zoom (- symbol)and when it appears, scroll north to Fort William and then across the water to Camas nan Gall.
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Diolch yn fawr iawn, hanes teulu, but that church and school is in Fort William. I'm looking at Ardgour, on the western shore of Loch Linnhe, stretching from Loch Eil in the north to the Sound of Mull in the south.
Thank you for looking though.
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Just from reading "Charles Stewart, FC minister of Fort William"
Is it possible the Minister travelled specifically to marry the couples although not in any church.
Can you tell us what it says in the 1st column of each please?
Annie
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Croeso.
I was a bit thrown by the early post mention of Loch Linnhe meeting Loch Shiel - I can see a later post which has Loch Linnhe meeting Loch Eil. But I'd spotted Camas nan Gall (modern Camusnagail) and wondered if the Minister had travelled from the Free Church at Fort William (as the previous post suggests).
"Killmallie" is this "Cilmalieu" on old maps - south of Ardgour?
The only Church I've spotted on that western shore is a "Chapel of Ease" at Camasnacroise
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Not sure if this assists but my husband's grandmother (Jessie McDonald married Alan Boyd) grew up in Duisky and her mother was a member of the Free Church. During my mother in law's years in Ardgour the Boyd family attended a church in that area and I recall the abandoned church being pointed out by her as we drove round the Loch to Blaich. For a time there was a fund to restore and then the roof collapsed and on last visit the church was a ruin. From memory this is located near the school house at Duisky.
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Sorry, hanes teulu, I should have typed Loch EIL, not Loch SHIEL in post #2 above. Interesting about Camasnacroise, I’ve not heard of it before although the Chapel of Ease looks to be a modern facility.
Rosinish, yes, it looks like the Ft William minister travelled across the loch to Camusnagaul, but I’m trying to establish whether there was a purpose built church there, did they get married at the Inn, or was it another tent :) From the two certs:
Ann Boyd & Duncan Cameron:
On the seventh day of February 1856 at Camusnagaul, marriage was solemnised between us according to the Forms of the Free Church of Scotland …………. signed Chas Stewart, Free Church Minister of Fort William
John Boyd and Isabella McGregor
On the twenty first of February 1868 at Camusnagaul, after Banns according to the Forms of the Free Church of Scotland ………… signed Chas Stewart, FC Minister of Fort William
Interesting about the church at Blaich, Carolbea. I hadn’t heard of this, so well worth investigating. But too far from Camusnagaul to be the right one for these two marriages.
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Will look into background of the small simple stone church at Duisky with family there who are in Free Church and see what they may recall
Boyd McGregor links
I have an Ann Boyd who married Ewen McGregor sometime before 1800 at Kilmallie at "Blarachern" - have not been able to locate this place or make any definite links to this marriage to date
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My understanding of Scottish marriages at this period is that the majority of couples married at home, not in church. Also, there was no civil ceremony.
Re. the "Chapel of Ease, Camasnacroise" that's from the 1874 map
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From my 4 Scottish Protestant Grandparents right back, they were all married either at the home of the bride or the groom, or at the Manse.
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Only two sacraments in the Church of Scotland, baptism & communion. Not marriage!
Skoosh.
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Thank you for pointing that out, hanes teulu, I couldn’t see Camasnacroise on the maps (too late last night!) but found a very smart current website for the Chapel, so it is still in operation! Daytime eyes have enabled me to locate it on the maps, interesting because I knew nothing of it previously. This is what Scotland’s Places have to say:
CAMAS NA CROISE: A large bay on the west shore of Loch Linnhe north of Loch a Choire, English meaning, Bay of the Cross
CAMASNACROISE: A very small village on the bay of the same name- It contains an established Church, Manse, and School, an Inn, Smithy, and blacksmith's dwelling house - Property of C. H. Forbes, Esq. Kingairloch. - English meaning, Bay of the Cross
From the same source: CILMALIEU current spelling KILMALIEU: A farm steading and dwelling house, slated and in good repair property of A. Forbes Esq. Kingairloch. English Meaning. Burying place of some Iona Saint
Kilmallie is a civil parish, part in Inverness shire and part in Argyll, the largest parish in Scotland according to Groom’s 1895 Gazeteer of Scotland
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ARL/Kilmallie
All marriages in this extended family were solemnised according to the Forms of the Free Church of Scotland and later the United Free Church. Apart from a couple on the floating church at Strontian, they took place either in private houses or hotels
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Could it be that they were married in a private house by the Free Church Minister?
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John Boyd who married Isabella (Bell) McGregor is linked to our direct Boyd family and to date have limited data on their descendants apart from the names of their four children. Census data states that Bell McGregor was working with "cousin" McLachlan family. I believe Bell's parents to be John McGregor and Cirsty McPhee. Has anyone worked out how these families are linked - or is that a simple question to ask but a major exercise to answer?
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Hi Carolbea,
The John Boyd & Isabella McGregor 1869 marriage cert certainly does record Isabella’s parents as John McGregor & Christina McPhee.
I Suspect that the link is through the McPhee line: Isabella’s mother, Christina McPhee and Donald McLachlan’s wife, Marjory / Misey McPhee being sisters but have not yet found birth records for either.
From https://familysearch.org/search/
Children of Donald McLachlan & Marjory McPhee:
Hugh McLachlan 29 June 1836 Morvern
Donald McLachlan 28 May 1838 Morvern
Alexr McLachlan 25 Dec 1839 Lismore & Appin
here is the family in 1841: 525/ Lismore & Appin, Glensanda
Dond. McLachlan / 45 / Grieve
Misie (Marjory) McLachlan / 35
Children: Hugh, Donald, Alexander
Mary McGregor / 18 F. servant
*All born Argyll
Isabella in 1841: Camusallah, Parish 528, Morvern
Dugald McPhee / 85
Hugh McPhee / 75
Mary McPhee / 45
John McGregor / 40 Ag Lab
Christy McGregor / 40 (m.s McPhee)
Catherine McGregor / 14
Ann McGregor /12
Isabella McGregor / 8
Jessy McGregor / 5
Catherine McPhee / 35 F. Servant
*All born Argyll
1851 census, Parish 525, Lismore & Appin, address: Glensanda
Donald McLachlan / 54 / labourer & cottar
Miller (Marjory) McLachlan / 47
Hugh McLachlan /14
Donald McLachlan / 12
Alexr McLachlan / 10
Dugald McLachlan /8 / Lismore & Appin
Bell McGregor / 16 / niece / house servant
*all born in Morvern apart from Dugald
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Many thanks Brigau for that confirmation - the McPhee link is interesting as a Boyd McPhee link in 1774 in Maryburgh.