RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: William Gordon on Thursday 21 July 16 12:28 BST (UK)
-
Hello,
I am trying to find out more information about the ancestry of the following James Gordon, who appears to have been a hide and tallow merchant in Liverpool and possibly also Manchester. I believe he was a director of a company called James Gordon and Co. I would be willing to share more research about the wider Gordon family to those who have relevant info.
James Gordon was born About 1811 in Manchester and died in 1894. He married 1st Mary Emily Carter on Sep. 29, 1860. Mary Emily was born About 1831 in Liverpool, England and died on an unknown date. He married 2nd Anne Barnsley Shaw. Anne Barnsley was born in 1831 and died in 1855.
Children of James Gordon and Mary Emily Gordon [Carter]
i. Mary Louisa Gordon was born on Aug. 15, 1861 and died on May 5, 1941.
ii. John Houghton Gordon was born About 1865 in Seaforth, Lancashire and died on Apr. 28, 1945 in England.
iii. William Henry Gordon was born on Mar. 6, 1866 in Seaforth, Lancashire and died on an unknown date.
iv. Emily Blanche Gordon was born in 1867 and died on an unknown date.
v. Frances Adeline Gordon was born in 1869 and died on an unknown date.
vi. George Francis Carter Gordon was born on Oct. 23, 1876 in Liverpool, England and died on Nov. 20, 1937 in Whittlesford, Cambridgeshire.
vii. Florence Cordelia Gordon died on an unknown date.
viii. Edith Jessie Gordon died on an unknown date.
Children of James Gordon and Anne Barnsley Gordon [Shaw]
ix. Elizabeth Anne Gordon was born in 1852 and died on an unknown date.
x. James Edgar Gordon was born in 1854 and died on an unknown date.
-
Mary seems to have been James second wife
Marriage: 29 Sep 1860 St Helen, Sefton, Lancashire, England
James Gordon - Full, Broker, Widower, Seaforth
Mary Emily Carter - Full, Spinster, Seaforth
Groom's Father: James Gordon, Merchant
Bride's Father: John Wilson Carter, Accountant
Witness: James Gordon; Eliza Carter; G. B. Reece; James Gray
Married by Licence by: Robert O. Carter, curate of Holy Trinity, Coventry
Edit
sorry just realised from the rest of your post that you listed the wife in the wrong order
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1851
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
GORDON James SHAW Annie Liverpool, St. Bride With St. Saviour Liverpool
-
There seems to be a bit of a muddle about the dates, as suggested by lancsann's post.
Also assuming the dates are correct for Mary (bn 1831), she was about 45 when she had her 6th child and then she had two more? Not impossible, but a bit unlikely.
Have you found the family on 1861-1891 censuses to check ages and that James didn't marry for a third time?
-
You don't have Eleanor Jane Alexandra Gordon on your list of children - registered 1863 with mother's maiden name of Carter (LancashireBMD) and she appears on the 1871 census entry, aged 8.
-
Children Edith and Florence were born about 1875 and 1873 respectively, so were older than baby George. All born Crosby,L'pool. According to 1881 census. Family were living at Kenmore, Gt Crosby in 1881
-
St Bride, Liverpool - 18 December 1851
James Gordon, 36, bachelor, Merchant of Percy Street. Father: James, Merchant
Annie Barnsley Shaw, 20, spinster of Islington. Father: Richard, Cotton Broker
-
interestingly Elizabeth Anne Gordon seems to have married the brother of James 2nd wife
Name: Elizabeth Anne Gordon
Gender: Female
Age: 20
Birth Year: abt 1853
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 30 Jan 1873
Parish: Sefton, Lancashire, England
Spouse: John Francis Carter
Spouse Age: Full Age
Father: James Gordon
Spouse Father: John Wilson Carter
there also seems to be a Houghton connection (cf John Houghton Gordon) as one of the witnesses was a F A Houghton
-
1851 census
22 Percy Street, Liverpool
Elizabeth Gordon 67 widow annuitant Liverpool
James do, son, unm 41 Hide Broker Manchester
Jane do, daur, unm 38, Manchester
John do, son, unm 35 Hide Broker, Manchester
+ 2 servants
-
Children Edith and Florence were born about 1875 and 1873 respectively, so were older than baby George. All born Crosby,L'pool. According to 1881 census. Family were living at Kenmore, Gt Crosby in 1881
Crosby was in the West Derby registration District.
-
LancashireBMD
Births registered as Gordon, with mother's maiden name of Carter - Sub-District is Great Crosby
Mabel - 1871
Florence Cordelia - 1872
Edith Jessie - 1875
George Francis C - 1876
-
Given the name connections I would guess this is James baptism
Name: James Gordon
Birth Date: 7 Feb 1810
Event Type: Baptism
Father: James
Mother: Elizabeth Houghton
Baptism Date: 9 Mar 1810
Baptism Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Denomination: Presbyterian
Piece Title: Piece 2009: Manchester, Cross Street (Presbyterian), 1770-1838
-
Children Edith and Florence were born about 1875 and 1873 respectively, so were older than baby George. All born Crosby,L'pool. According to 1881 census. Family were living at Kenmore, Gt Crosby in 1881
Crosby was in the West Derby registration District.
You are quite right, scouseboy.... but you should see FindMyPast's transcriptions - Manchester and Liverpool have been moved to Scotland!!
Also house name in 1891 is Kenmuir, instead of Kenmore (according to the enumerators, that is) which possibly suggests a Scottish connection when considered with the Presbyterian christening :-\
-
I think my doctors surgery in the early 1950s was very near to Kenmore, Waterloo in Crosby.
-
May 14, at her residence, Percy Street, aged 70, Elizabeth, relict of the late James Gordon, Esq,Manchester.
(Liverpool Mercury 18 May 1852)
Nov. 17, at her residence, 6 Adelaide Terrace, Waterloo, Jane, daughter of the late James Gordon, of Seedley, near Manchester.
(Liverpool Mercury 19 November 1873)
-
Marriage;
23 June 1807, St Annes Richmond, Liverpool
James GORDON, Merchant of Manchester Parish
Eliza HOUGHTON, Spinster of this Parish
Witnesses, James and Richard Houghton
(FreeREG)
Trish :)
-
I think my doctors surgery in the early 1950s was very near to Kenmore, Waterloo in Crosby.
Kenmore was/is in Burbo Bank Road, in Blundellsands.
-
and a sister for James
Name: Mary Edgar Gordon
Birth Date: 13 Sep 1808
Event Type: Baptism
Father: James
Mother: Elizabeth Houghton
Baptism Date: 21 Oct 1808
Baptism Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Denomination: Presbyterian
Piece Title: Piece 2009: Manchester, Cross Street (Presbyterian), 1770-1838
There are several other sibling including this one. Father James has progressed from being a merchant to a manufacturer
NAME: John Houghton Gordon
MOTHER: Elizabeth Houghton
FATHER: James Gordon
BIRTH: 30 Dec 1815
BAPTISM: 18 Jun 1816 - Cross Street Presbyterian,Manchester,Lancashire,England
-
The correct name for the Gordon residence in the late 19th century and early 20th century appears to be "Kenmure House" not Kenmore.
-
1841 Census
Lang St, Everton Valley,
Walton On The Hill, Lancashire
HO107/519/3/Walton On The Hill
Elizabeth Gordon, 50, Independant
James Gordon, 30
Jane Gordon, 25
All born in County
-
The correct name for the Gordon residence in the late 19th century and early 20th century appears to be "Kenmure House" not Kenmore.
Probably an expensive detached house in a very posh area near to the beach and overlooking the Irish Sea.
-
James Edgar Gordon -
1871 with his aunt Jane, aged 16
1881 - James E Gordon, 26, Hide Broker, visitor to Helen Nicholson
1891 - James Edgar Gordon - 36, Commission Man and Broker with wife Mary, 36, Mary E aged 6, James E aged 4, Lilian E aged 3 and Stanley E aged 1.
All Hallows, Allerton - 21 June 1883
James Edgar Gordon, full age, bachelor, Broker of Allerton. Father: James = Gentleman
Mary Nicholson - full age, spinster, Broker (ditto marks used) of Wavertree. Father: Benjamin, Ship Owner.
-
1828 (Liverpool Mercury)
James Gordon Manchester manufacturer bankrupt
?? 7 Jun 1833 Manchester Times
Death of James Gordon for many years respected merchant of this town
-
Wills and Probate:
James Gordon of Kenmure House, Blundellsands, gentleman, died 16 November 1894. Probate to James Edgar Gordon and John Houghton Gordon, general brokers. Effects: £186091.3s.10d. Resworn April 1895 £185032.12s.4d.
James Edgar Gordon of the Manor, Great Sutton, Cheshire died 30 August 1938. Probate to Harold Gemmell Alexander and James Edgar and Stanley Edgar Gordon, general brokers. Effects: £229815.13s.10d.
Added:
Is this John Houghton Gordon?
John Houghton Gordon of Beaconstone, Beacon Road, Crowboro9ugh, Sussex, died 28 April 1945. Probate 27 June to Jean Kenmure Gordon, spinster and Angus Kenmure Gordon of no occupation. £73131.4s
-
The correct name for the Gordon residence in the late 19th century and early 20th century appears to be "Kenmure House" not Kenmore.
Probably an expensive detached house in a very posh area near to the beach and overlooking the Irish Sea.
You can see Kenmure House on this 1893 map https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/330497/399347/12/101394
Also http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=17&lat=53.4861&lon=-3.0472&layers=171&right=BingHyb
Stan
-
Many thanks for all the help so far, all the replies have been very useful and I am hugely appreciative.
It looks like the new ancestral generation that has been uncovered will probably be the focus for me now - that is, my original James Gordon's father, also called James Gordon, together with his wife Elizabeth Houghton. The prevalence of the 'Edgar' surname in his descendants, together with the constant recurrence of the first name James, makes me suspect that I may find the next generation up is another James Gordon who perhaps married a woman with the surname Edgar.
I am hoping to find a connection eventually with the family of Gordon of Lochinvar, holders of the Viscountcy of Kenmure in Dumfries and Galloway at some point in the ancestry, as hinted at by the use of 'Kenmure' in the Liverpool house name and middle names of a couple of the children. What set off this part of my research was a coat of arms registered for an Angus Kenmure Gordon on 16th February 1971. What is a bit confusing is that the Angus Kenmure Gordon we have found in this tree (son of the John Houghton Gordon who d. 1945) died in 1963, seemingly eight years before these arms were registered. I wondered if he may have had a similarly named son, but have so far found none.
-
I'm sure that someone on Rootschat will be able to comment about the registering of the arms - in fact there is a specific section on here about arms, crests, heraldry etc. here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/heraldry/
I do hope you find a link to the Scottish Gordons, but you do need to be aware that a lot of "nouveau riche" in the newly emerging middle class in Victorian times tried to create a lineage linking themselves to nobility. So it could equally be that a man named Gordon named his house Kenmure to suggest links to the Scottish viscounts.
I hope your family is the genuine article, but if not, it makes for an interesting and amusing story. I think I'd be satisfied with either outcome ;D
-
There is a headstone in Balmaclellan Churchard, Dumfries & Galloway, (used to be the county of Kirkcudbrightshire) relating to James Edgar Gordon, of The Manor, Great Sutton, Cheshire. Gives the date of death as 30.03.1938, aged 85. It is next to a stone listing a family of Gordon, going back to a John Gordon of Barnhillies who died 16 Oct 1733 aged 66 years
Also mentioned is James Gordon, died 16 Nov 1894 aged 84, Interred Crosby, Liverpool, who I assume is the father of James Edgar. James Gordon died 7 June 1833 aged 81, interred Manchester.
Details are from the Balmaclellan MI's
Is this the same family?
-
At Balmaclellan, the inscription on the next stone reads: In memory of John Houghton Gordon of Liverpool and Crowborough, son of James Gordon and Mary Carter, died 28 March 1945 aged 80 years. Angus Kenmure Gordon, of Largs, Ayrshire, son of the above John Gordon and Janet Couper, died 17 October 1963 aged 65 years.
Angus's death is recorded at Largs, Ayrshire in 1963. Seems he married a Lesley Agnes Cook in 1937 at Drymen. She died in 1987 aged 87 at Newington. (according to Scotlandspeople.)