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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Narnster on Wednesday 20 July 16 23:32 BST (UK)
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Can anyone tell me if people lived on site at Mossband in WW2? I'm looking for someone who worked there in 1941 (information from son's birth certificate) but whose family lived in Carlisle. This person is not on the 1939 Register. Another odd thing is that there is a photo of him dressed in a sailor's uniform with "HMS Victory" written on the back yet he was never in the navy! Do records exists for civilians at munitions depots?
Any information would be appreciated!
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How old was the person, please?
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Mossband is, of course, pretty close to the border with Scotland. The area south of the border is pretty sparsely populated, so if your relative was billeted nearby they are likely to be in Gretna or Eastriggs, and so won't be on the 1939 Register that we can see.
By the time of the Register the depot would already have been quite busy with munitions movements.
Was it the photo or the uniform which had HMS Victory written on it? What was his rough age in the photo?
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There are several Ministry of Defence establishments in that area around Carlisle and Gretna. Longtown; a rail depot; A RAF Maintenance Unit; and munitions factories around Carlisle.
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Many thanks for your replies.
This person was born in 1921. He was born and raised in Carlisle. He was known to be working at Mossband in 1941 because his son's birth certificate stated that. (His wife is from Carlisle and his son was born in Carlisle.) The real problem is that he cannot be located on the 1939 Register. His wife is on the register living with her mother but they weren't married at that point.
"HMS Victory" was written on the back of the photo but I don't think it was dated. (I'll double check on that because I don't have the actual photo.) He looks 18-20 ish in the photo.
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If he was in the services he would not be on the 1939 register:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register/
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If he was in Scotland he won't be found in the 1939 Register on FindMyPast either. Only the England and Wales sections have been made available via that site.
Carol
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Can anyone tell me if people lived on site at Mossband in WW2? I'm looking for someone who worked there in 1941 (information from son's birth certificate) but whose family lived in Carlisle. This person is not on the 1939 Register. Another odd thing is that there is a photo of him dressed in a sailor's uniform with "HMS Victory" written on the back yet he was never in the navy! Do records exists for civilians at munitions depots?
Any information would be appreciated!
. What did they do at this site?
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Can anyone tell me if people lived on site at Mossband in WW2? I'm looking for someone who worked there in 1941 (information from son's birth certificate) but whose family lived in Carlisle. This person is not on the 1939 Register. Another odd thing is that there is a photo of him dressed in a sailor's uniform with "HMS Victory" written on the back yet he was never in the navy! Do records exists for civilians at munitions depots?
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What did they do at this site?
Big clue in the original post ::)
Also here:
By the time of the Register the depot would already have been quite busy with munitions movements.
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Thank you everyone. I've concluded that he must have been living on the site and probably in Scotland. The link to the archives guidance is also extremely helpful. Thanks again.
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He may have been in the Guard Force?
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Hi
It could be worthwhile getting in touch with this museum. It's primarily about WW1 but maybe worth a shot.
http://www.devilsporridge.org.uk/
claire
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I've just remembered that his occupation on his son's birth certificate is "Storeman". Also, his son says he was never in the forces as far as he knew so has no idea why he would be in a naval uniform in a photo. We thought it might have been no more than a studio portrait but that's surely unlikely when it says "HMS Victory" on the reverse of the photo.
Is it possible that he joined up but didn't make the grade somehow?
Re Devil's Porridge - I shall give that a go.
Thanks to you both.
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The place he was mostly likely to have worked was known as RAF 14MU. It was at one point one of the biggest maintenance units and its site is massive. It closed in the 1990s. It did all sorts during the war, not just supplying parts etc. A lot of the hangers still exist on the site.
It could also have been Longtown,known as CAD Longtown. This was a small army base and still is. There was/is an ammunition dump starting at Longtown and extending over the Scottish border. One of the biggest munitions dumps in Europe up until recently. Both sites had service personnel and civililian personnel. Both could be classed as Mossband as they run into each other. There is still accommodation blocks at Longtown and there was accommodation at 14MU. NAAFI and messes definitely during the war.
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I now know that the photo that I originally mentioned was dated 27th October 1939 and that the young man dressed in a naval uniform had just turned 18. It just says "HMS Victory 27th October 1939" on the back. I'm wondering why he would be wearing the uniform if he hadn't joined up, yet his son says his father was never in the forces as far as he knew (and he knew him well). The next record available is his son's birth certificate in 1941 which puts him at Mossband as a storeman. Any ideas what might have happened?
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I've just remembered that his occupation on his son's birth certificate is "Storeman". Also, his son says he was never in the forces as far as he knew so has no idea why he would be in a naval uniform in a photo. We thought it might have been no more than a studio portrait but that's surely unlikely when it says "HMS Victory" on the reverse of the photo.
Is it possible that he joined up but didn't make the grade somehow?
Re Devil's Porridge - I shall give that a go.
Thanks to you both.
If he was a "storeman" in a depot with thousands of items of clothing, surely it would be easy for him to borrow an item for a souvenir photograph.
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Can anyone tell me if people lived on site at Mossband in WW2? I'm looking for someone who worked there in 1941 (information from son's birth certificate) but whose family lived in Carlisle. This person is not on the 1939 Register. Another odd thing is that there is a photo of him dressed in a sailor's uniform with "HMS Victory" written on the back yet he was never in the navy! Do records exists for civilians at munitions depots?
Any information would be appreciated!
Wouldn't he have to been signed up to the Navy to work as a storeman?
I don't know too much about the Navy ( my family are army) . My grandfather who was in the army all of his working life , when he finally retired from more active duty,worked as an army storeman right at the end of his career( he was in his 60's at the time)
Here is a link to the army that says you must be a serving soldier "You can only be selected for this role if you're a serving soldier, so you've already mastered basic soldiering skills like weapons handling and living and working in the open" https://www.army.mod.uk/rolefinder/role/204/storeman
Maybe the Navy is like this too ? I don't know, but I'd guess it could be.
Kind Regards
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Thank you Cell and ScouseBoy, both comments food for thought. I'm hoping that all these ideas combined may eventually get us somewhere near the truth. I don't have the photo in my possession but I will ask what the backdrop of the photo is. Maybe that will give us some clues.
..claire.. I have emailed the Devil's Porridge twice but they don't reply!! (What I do know is that they've just appointed a new archivist so they might have some useful records... if only they would respond!!)
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That's a shame they haven't replied .. yet. It's possibly the one place that would give you some idea of the answers you are looking for.
Have you done a general search on FindMyPast or Anc* to see if he crops up in any of their naval records ? I'm not very clued up in this area but he may have been there in a training capacity. I tried googling and there is some info about HMS Victory out there.
Keep us informed of any developments :)
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Can anyone tell me if people lived on site at Mossband in WW2? I'm looking for someone who worked there in 1941 (information from son's birth certificate) but whose family lived in Carlisle. This person is not on the 1939 Register. Another odd thing is that there is a photo of him dressed in a sailor's uniform with "HMS Victory" written on the back yet he was never in the navy! Do records exists for civilians at munitions depots?
Any information would be appreciated!
Wouldn't he have to been signed up to the Navy to work as a storeman?
I don't know too much about the Navy ( my family are army) . My grandfather who was in the army all of his working life , when he finally retired from more active duty,worked as an army storeman right at the end of his career( he was in his 60's at the time)
Here is a link to the army that says you must be a serving soldier "You can only be selected for this role if you're a serving soldier, so you've already mastered basic soldiering skills like weapons handling and living and working in the open" https://www.army.mod.uk/rolefinder/role/204/storeman
Maybe the Navy is like this too ? I don't know, but I'd guess it could be.
Kind Regards
The Armed Forces have Store Depots and Ammunition Store Depots and Naval Bases or Royal Navy Dockyards. They are staffed by Civilian employees.
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CAD Longtown definitely has civilians working in the stores there and 14 MU did while it was open.
HMS victory appears to have been a land holding base before being deployed to new bases/ships.
As a 18/19 year old in 1939 why wouldn't he have called up for service? My mother was the same age and although not in the forces she was called up and became a member of the ambulance service in her spare time and went to work at RAF MU as her main service. It did much more than just stores. Maybe there was a reason why he couldn't remain in the forces after initial call up and he returned to work in one of the local units.
Another possibility could he have been a member of the sea cadets visiting HMS victory when the picture was taken?
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Your question; Can anyone tell me if people lived on site at Mossband in WW2? I'm looking for someone who worked there in 1941 (information from son's birth certificate) but whose family lived in Carlisle. This person is not on the 1939 Register. Another odd thing is that there is a photo of him dressed in a sailor's uniform with "HMS Victory" written on the back yet he was never in the navy! Do records exists for civilians at munitions depots?
My response primarily CAD Mossband was a Government (WD) site. There were many in a 20 mile radius, I can recall 6. In the main, to the best of my recollection, CAD Mossband housed Soldiers (Pioneer Corp) Mossband Camp. was about 2 miles from Gretna. 8 from Carlisle. Within the camp there were many civilian workers, my Mam and Sister being two. I worked for a short while at an alternate site near Carlisle. In addition to the main secured CAD site there was an adjoining enclave of Wooden huts, many civilians lived there (our family included) with many of them working in the site. I would expect that there are Governmental Records of persons stationed there, but unlikely to include civilians. My knowledge is due to circumstances limited. If I can offer any further info just ask and will do my best.
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Hi, I was just doing some family research and noticed this post. I work at the Devils Porridge; sorry you haven't had a reply. We don't have much information about the Mossband Army camp, but I will see what I can do if you give me further details. Thanks