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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: CF1981 on Sunday 17 July 16 13:47 BST (UK)

Title: What Italian regiment?
Post by: CF1981 on Sunday 17 July 16 13:47 BST (UK)
Hi, not sure if this is the right place for this, but does anyone know what regiment of the Italian army this is? Or could someone point me in the direction of someone who would know? The photo is my 3 times great grandfather. Thanks :)
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: ScouseBoy on Sunday 17 July 16 14:50 BST (UK)
Which war was he involved in, do you know?
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: CF1981 on Sunday 17 July 16 15:02 BST (UK)
Hi, I think this photo was taken around 1870, just after the unification of Italy. It could be later, 1890 maybe. But he's  a youngish man there, and he was having children in the 1870-80's. I don't know if he was involved in any battles related to the unification of Italy? I have no idea. He would have been too old for World War One, his son, my great great grandfather fought in that war, in the British Royal Field Artillery. Thanks.
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: macintosh on Sunday 17 July 16 18:15 BST (UK)
Looks like a, busby type hat  pity can't make out all of the badge on it, perhaps light cavalry.
Try posting on the Armed Forces Board


James
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: barryd on Sunday 17 July 16 19:45 BST (UK)
Probably a NCO and not an officer as he is posing with a rifle. Going by the British Army he looks like an Italian Lance-Corporal. But that is a wild guess. Scroll down to very last image and that might give rank and choices of army units. On the bottom line (right of the trumpeter) there is an X image  badge similar to the X image which is near the plume of the hat on your photograph.


http://www.uniformology.com/RUHL-08.html
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: MaxD on Sunday 17 July 16 20:09 BST (UK)
Not a British uniform.  The headdress is strikingly similar to a French Army Shako worn today by the French Republican Guard so could it be French.  Google images will also show similar collar worn by some senior ranks.  Shako badge if identifiable will give the regiment.

However, if definitely Italian as the original post says, then cancel the above!!

maxD
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: jess5athome on Sunday 17 July 16 20:31 BST (UK)
Am I seeing things, or is there a number "2" on the hat?

Frank.
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: barryd on Sunday 17 July 16 20:57 BST (UK)
Yes is looks like a number 2
No is looks like the the Crossed Axes of the (Saper) Sapper? badge on the images attached. previously.
I am sitting on the fence on this one.
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Sunday 17 July 16 20:57 BST (UK)
Am I seeing things, or is there a number "2" on the hat?

Frank.

Now you point it out, I can see it. Possibly just an emblem of uniform. Cannot see why there would be a number 2 on regimental hat. But know nothing, stand to be corrected.

Great pic by the way.

Cas
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: jess5athome on Sunday 17 July 16 21:23 BST (UK)
What do we think, I think it's the number "2"

Frank.
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: ..claire.. on Sunday 17 July 16 21:32 BST (UK)

I think it's highly probable it's a number ' cavalry number' maybe, after reading this page

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Military-History-669/2011/2/Uniform-Identification-5.htm

Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Sunday 17 July 16 21:33 BST (UK)
Would number 2 be on a non English reg hat thou ?

But know nothing about Italian or French number systems except basic French

Cas
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: ..claire.. on Sunday 17 July 16 21:36 BST (UK)

What would an Italian number 2 look like  ;D ;D

74 is on the hat in the link I gave ~ so possible
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: jess5athome on Sunday 17 July 16 21:46 BST (UK)

What would an Italian number 2 look like  ;D ;D




This answers that one  ;D

An Italian 2nd Artillery Cavalry Cap Badge,

http://www.emedals.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/327x245/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/a/n/an_italian_2nd_a_5522ee1aea763.jpg


Frank.
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: ..claire.. on Sunday 17 July 16 21:48 BST (UK)

Doh!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: John915 on Sunday 17 July 16 22:06 BST (UK)
Good evening,

Probably a NCO and not an officer as he is posing with a rifle. Going by the British Army he looks like an Italian Lance-Corporal. But that is a wild guess. Scroll down to very last image and that might give rank and choices of army units. On the bottom line (right of the trumpeter) there is an X image  badge similar to the X image which is near the plume of the hat on your photograph.


http://www.uniformology.com/RUHL-08.html

Strangest rifle iv'e ever seen, actually it's a cavalry sabre. I think heavy cavalry but don't know a lot about the Italian cavalry.

The no "2" is not part of his badge, that is the large item lower down on the front of the busby. It may just be a reflection or some sort of device on the bit that holds the plume on.

John915
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Sunday 17 July 16 22:14 BST (UK)
TBH I also thought sword not rifle, but out of depth here, no knowledge

Cas
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: ..claire.. on Sunday 17 July 16 22:17 BST (UK)

Yeah.. I'd go with sword. But I still think it looks like a '2', but wading far out of my depth here
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: jess5athome on Sunday 17 July 16 22:21 BST (UK)
Good evening,....................................................................

The no "2" is not part of his badge, that is the large item lower down on the front of the busby. It may just be a reflection or some sort of device on the bit that holds the plume on.

John915


Hi, yes, its not part of the badge but I just wondered what it signified  ;)  it definitely looks like the number "2"


Frank.
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: ..claire.. on Sunday 17 July 16 22:26 BST (UK)

I'm confused... is it a number 2  ???  ? or a shadow

 :-\
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: jess5athome on Sunday 17 July 16 22:30 BST (UK)

I'm confused... is it a number 2  ???  ? or a shadow

 :-\


I'm going to stick my neck out (that's what Yorkshire men do  ;D ) and go with my first thoughts that it is indeed the number 2.

Frank.
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: ..claire.. on Sunday 17 July 16 22:38 BST (UK)

It looks too defined to be a shadow, thanks :)

( Yorkshire men ~ know all about them, am married to one ;)
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: jess5athome on Sunday 17 July 16 22:40 BST (UK)
Back again  ;D

I now think it's definitely the number "2" and he is cavalry, the attached Link shows a cavalry man, different Busby / Cap badge but with a number on the bottom of the plume, this one is "6" but the one on the CF1981's photograph is "2"

Frank.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Collina_Costantino_(1880-1929)_as_cavalry_man_at_arms_portrait.jpg
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: ..claire.. on Sunday 17 July 16 22:42 BST (UK)

Oh! well done Frank, that's a great picture, very clear  :)
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: John915 on Sunday 17 July 16 22:58 BST (UK)
Good evening,

Good find Frank, just spent ages looking for images of Italian uniforms, badges and other insignia. That one never came up though. Iv'e been trying to find the upside down chevron, not a rank as far as I can tell.

John915
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: CF1981 on Sunday 17 July 16 23:11 BST (UK)
Probably a NCO and not an officer as he is posing with a rifle. Going by the British Army he looks like an Italian Lance-Corporal. But that is a wild guess. Scroll down to very last image and that might give rank and choices of army units. On the bottom line (right of the trumpeter) there is an X image  badge similar to the X image which is near the plume of the hat on your photograph.


http://www.uniformology.com/RUHL-08.html

Hi, Thanks for the reply. He's actually holding a sword. I should have cropped the photo a bit better, sorry. Thanks for the link, I'll have a look it :)
Title: Re: What regiment?
Post by: CF1981 on Sunday 17 July 16 23:13 BST (UK)
Back again  ;D

I now think it's definitely the number "2" and he is cavalry, the attached Link shows a cavalry man, different Busby / Cap badge but with a number on the bottom of the plume, this one is "6" but the one on the CF1981's photograph is "2"

Frank.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Collina_Costantino_(1880-1929)_as_cavalry_man_at_arms_portrait.jpg

Thank you so much!! My family will be really happy to get this info! :)
Title: Re: What Italian regiment?
Post by: RRTB on Monday 18 July 16 20:41 BST (UK)
Using Frank's picture of the other cavalryman (Collina Costantino), I searched for other pictures of this man and found this one: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Collina_Costantino_(1880-1929)_as_cavalry_caporal.jpg

The chevron on the arm must represent the corporal rank.

RRTB
Title: Re: What Italian regiment?
Post by: RRTB on Monday 18 July 16 21:44 BST (UK)
I am wondering if the badge on the left arm in the OP's picture is a "distintivo da maniscalco". (http://www.frontedelpiave.info/userfiles/image/uniformi/cavalleria/soldato%20dei%20cavalleggeri%20con%20distintivo%20da%20maniscalco.jpg)

It can be very clearly seen in the above picture, and when translated into English it means "Farrier's Badge".

Also, the badge on the front of the headgear would appear to be that of a Reggimento di cavallegeri with the number 23. The picture posted below shows one which appears to be pretty similar and is from the Reggimento "Cavalleggeri di Lucca" 16°.

(http://www.regioesercito.it/reparti/cavalleria/imgcav/16a.jpg)
 
RRTB
Title: Re: What Italian regiment?
Post by: RRTB on Monday 18 July 16 21:54 BST (UK)
Sorry about the third post in a row, but I have just googled "Reggimento cavaleggeri 23" and came up with Cavalleggeri di Umberto I (23°) dal (from) 1887 al (to) 1919. Would this fit with the era of the photograph? The following link would tend to say yes:

http://www.museocavalleria.it/Scuola%20e%20Reggimenti/Linea/Umberto%20I.htm

RRTB