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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Neil Bowdler on Saturday 16 July 16 10:00 BST (UK)
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Hi. Seeking information.
LIVINGSTONE James. Married Mary Agnes CONSIDINE, 12-May-1851in Methodist church Ipswich, Qld. He was a Methodist, she a R.C. Mary Agnes b. circa 1833 County Clare, Ireland, d.11-Oct-1896, Bowen Villa, Ann St, Brisbane. Buried: 12-Oct-1896 at Toowong. They had 9 children we have some details for. BUT I have no date or place of birth and can find no record of a death for James anywhere in Qld or Australia.
Any help gratefully received.
Neil Bowdler
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Is their a Joseph and Thomas in the family and surnames, Gordon, Addison, Chilton, Shelton.
What were James' parents names?
Jamjar
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Neil are you aware that a George is in with your Mary Agnes?
Jamjar
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Could you give children's names and married surnames of lassies, as if death notices can be found for them father may or may not be mentioned.
Jamjar
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Hi, No sorry no Joseph or Thomas. We have William, Rebecca, Elizabeth, Alexander, John, Emily, Agnes, George and Ellen. I do have birth dates and deaths for the boys and Rebecca (my gggrandmother) but do not have marriages for the other girls so unsure as to married names.
Yes. Thanks I was aware that George was in with Mary Agnes. James may possibly have deserted the family as the relationship was rocky according to newspaper adds and the 'other side of the family' gossip. The children all seem to have maintained contact with their mother,
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Yes, I just found a 2006 post of yours on the Net. ;D
The last birth was 1870, so it's an onward search from there.
Jamjar
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Yes have been at it a while. Still hunting for James! Plus trying to trace the marriages of the girls and any grandchildren.
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Don't suppose there are any middle names?
Jamjar
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Thanks Jamjar. Only for William James and Rebecca Mary I am afraid!
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Sorry, one more question, what are the parents names of James?
Jamjar
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Unknown. Not on the 1851 Methodist marriage entry. :(
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Goodness :'(
I have found only one registered marriage on QLDBDM, an Ellen Livingstone
Ellen to Christian Martin Rosenskjar - 1902 C1064 parents William and Margaret
If I find others I'll put them in this same post.
Jamjar
No Agnes, but a Mary Agnes to George Alfred Carrad - 1886 B10925
Marriage notice:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/183129607?searchTerm=%22carrad%22&searchLimits=l-state=Queensland|||sortby=dateDesc|||l-category=Family+Notices
No death for George or Agnes, but a child death Roy George 1887 B20392 father George Alfred and mother AGNES Livingstone.
Death notice for Roy George: http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/174762700?searchTerm=%22Agnes%20Carrad%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc
Daughter: Gladys Agnes - 1888 B41910; her death Gladys A Carrad 15246/1916 father George and Mother Mary A in Sydney
Gladys death notice with no mention of George:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15690959?searchTerm=%22Carrad%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc|||l-state=New+South+Wales|||l-category=Family+Notices
George possibly in Sydney in 1925 and I can't find any deaths in NSW for George or Agnes.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/220256431?searchTerm=%22George%20Carrad%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc
George A birth in Sydney: George A Carrad 802/1865 father William and mother Margaret, Sydney
I feel the second one could be Mary Agnes' death with a mistranscribed father's name.
CARRAD Mary E J 674/1932 WIlliam J and Jane at Chatswood
CARRAD MARY A 6861/1932 William J and Mary A at Randwick
Mary Agnes funeral notice:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/16853134?searchTerm=%22carrad%22&searchLimits=l-state=New+South+Wales|||sortby=dateDesc|||l-category=Family+Notices
There is information to be found on George's side if you want to go that way, e.g. His mother remarried. Still can't find George's death.
Emily married in NSW: Emily Livingstone to Hugh Mulcahy 1132/1888 Sydney
There is a notice for the death of her third son and it mentions 'nephew of Mrs Carrad, Miss Livingstone and cousin of Gladys Carrad'.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15616379?searchTerm=%22%20Carrad%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc|||l-state=New+South+Wales|||l-category=Family+Notices
Emily's death notice mentions her children:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17300326?searchTerm=%22%20Emily%20Mulcahy%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc|||l-state=New+South+Wales|||l-category=Family+Notices
Funeral notice:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17300316?searchTerm=%22%20Emily%20Mulcahy%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc|||l-state=New+South+Wales|||l-category=Family+Notices
Hugh and Emily are buried at the Rookwood Catholic Cemetry: Section M2 C 1528
Hugh G age 55 19-4-1912
Emily age 72 14-12-1936
Three possibles for Elizabeth:
1875 John Harland C394
1893 Walter Ross Kirk C204
1899 Enoch Stener C2362
I'm wondering if the Miss Livingstone mentioned in one of the death notices above is Ellen. I noticed in the funeral notices of Mary A senior her son George and daughter Nellie are requesting attendance. In the link below you will see N. Livingstone as aunt, with A Carrad.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15761305?searchTerm=%22Carrad%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc|||l-state=New+South+Wales|||l-category=Family+Notices
Ellen Livingstone is buried in the grave next to her sister Emily.
Ellen Livingstone aged 70, 9-6-1939 Section M2 C 1529.
Her death registration also gives the father as William.
Ellen Livingstone 10782/1939 father William and mother Mary Agnes at Rozelle
Emily's death also says William.
Could they have had a step-father?
J.
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Many thanks Jamjar!
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Hi.
In May 1886 James Livingstone, a wharf porter was residing at Bowen Street Brisbane because the Qld Police Gazette has an entry for 28th May 1886 stating that he had a quantity of clothing stolen from the premises on 22nd May.
Gerry
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The Brisbane Courier 19th November 1888 page 4 has a mention of James Livingstone a wharf porter was accosted in Eagle Street.
1895 story about a Jimmy Livingstone a wharf Porter, 79 years old.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/213444403?searchTerm=
Gerry
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What a great tale, Gerry. ;D
Sue
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This is possibly the death of the man in the news story as the age and place of birth fit.
1903 C3512 James LIVINGSTON
Father James LIVINGSTON
Mother-
- ** born England aged 87 years
Sue
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1903 Electoral roll QLD.
LVINGSTON, James
Dunwich Benevolent Asylum.
Inmate.
Sue
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Yes Sue, I hope it is the correct James because it is a great story.
Gerry
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Wow!! Many thanks!!! Jamjar, Sue and Gerry. Now I need to process all that! According to death cert for Mary Agnes she was a widow in 1896 when she died BUT we have never found any trace of him. I hope Jimmy the wharf porter could be him! Interesting!
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It is interesting that Jimmy says he worked at Peak Mountain as that is where the eldest daughter of 'my James" Rebecca was born in 1854. Also at the time of his marriage in 1851 his place of residence is given as Coochin Coochin station near Boonah. So! 'My James' was also working in the same area at a similar time!!
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The last child I see was Ellen born in Brisbane area.
It might suggest that Brisbane was the home place of Mary and James LIVINGSTON/E by then.
If that were the case, one would expect that Mary, having died in Brisbane would be interred with her husband if he died first.
I suppose it is possible that Mary did not know his whereabouts and the person informing for the death certificate said "widow" either to maintain dignity or because he/she did not know the facts.
Qld bmd certificates are an instant download after payment and there may be some more helpful information on the certificate of this James LIVINGTSTONE of Dunwich Asylum.
Sue
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I think IF my James is Old Jimmy that it was a case of covering scandal and maintaining appearances! James and Mary had been parted before according to Trove. Mary died at Bowen Villa, Ann Street Brisbane and the family all seemed to live around the city. I think they would have known exactly where their husband/father was IF it was old Jimmy. :-X
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If you research Dunwich Asylum, you will learn about the cemetery where inmates were buried.
It is likely to be the resting place of this Jimmy LIVINGSTONE.
I am not very good at QLD research, but others might be able to tell you if this information is accessible.
Sue
PS
Does James give any age on his marriage registration?
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Thanks for that. No! Yet again! No age.
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Accessing Dunwich records:
http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/Researchers/CollectionsDownloads/Documents/BG26Dunwich.pdf
Jamjar
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Hi,
http://www.stradbrokemuseum.com.au/dba
Maybe try the above for any Dunwich information.
Gerry
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Thanks Jamjar and Gerry
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Possible early QLD Electoral Roll.
1862-1863.
Electoral District of Ipswich
James Livingstone, freehold, Martin Street.
1864-1865.
Electoral District of Drayton & Toowoomba
James Livingstone, freehold, Toowoomba.
1866-1867
ditto
1867-1868
ditto
1869-1870
ditto.
Gerry
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Gerry, I've sent you a PM.
Jamjar
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Hi Gerry, Many thanks for this. I have found this before but not for the whole period of time you have here, I do have some information on 'my James' but just not what became of him. As we said above it is pretty obvious he and Mary Agnes had a rather stormy relationship so I am assuming he left her or vice versa Her death cert says widow, but.... you never know.
Neil
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Hi Everyone.
Many thanks for all the help! It appears that Old Jimmy the Wharf Porter is indeed my 3xggrandfather James Livingstone!! Reply from Stradbroke Island Museum.
"Dunwich Benevolent Asylum inmate: James Livingstone.
The records at the Museum have been searched and there is only one James Livingstone listed. There is (1) an Admission Form and (2) an entry in the Benevolent Asylum Death Register.
1. The Admission Form reads:
Registration No: 3299
Name: James Livingstone Age: 80 years old
When admitted: April 8th 1896
From: Brisbane
Cause of Admission: General debility, old age.
Where born: Torrington, Devon, England Religion: C.E.
Trade, profession: Porter Education: R. & W.
Father’s name and profession: James Livingston, mariner, R.N.
Mother’s name and Maiden surname: forget.
Married, &c.: Yes, May Consadine – when 40 at Ipswich
Children: 8 ………died in 1866 I believe.
Living: William James 40 - Hughenden
Rebecca, 38, married, don”t know name, is in Toowoomba
Elizabeth 36 in Sydney, married.
John 30 – don’t know
Alexander 32 – Hughenden way
George - don’t know
Emily 26 – don’t know
Mary Agnes – 24 – don’t know
History: Came to Australia 1837 as sailor on ship “Royal Sovereign,” left her in Sydney, was in N.S.W. till 1843 –as cook, butler etc.. Then went shearing and bullock driving; came to Moreton Bay under engagement to Mr. McKinchler on Logan and at Telemon 5 years then with Mrs. William Barker and since then with Mr. Richard Barker on Bowen River and various other stations and since then porter on A.U.S.N. Company’s wharf.
Last two yeas porter on A.U.S.N. wharf and too ill to work.
I have Four pounds; no property. Mrs Woolfry?, Muller & Woolfry? Grove?, Wickham Street is friend (writing difficult to read)
On leave 13 August to 13 October 1896; Discharged October 13th 1896.
Readmitted July 1st , 1898; Absent on leave May 17th 1898 to May 26th 1898; December 14th to 26th December 1898;
On leave1.9.1900 to 28 December 1900.
Last seen by Medical superintendent 23 July, 1903
Died and buried 25 July 1903.
2. The Death Register entry reads:
Name: James Livingston Age: 87 years old
Registration No. 3299
Date of death: 25th July 1903
Cause of death: Senile degeneration, erysipelas of foot.
I hope that this helps in your research and that he is the James Livingstone that you are looking for.
Kind regards,
Althea Vickers
Volunteer
North Stradbroke Island Historical Museum
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How excellent is that?
Buried where?
Jamjar
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Hi Jamjar
Dunwich I blieve, although they haven't specifically said. The Stradbroke museum is the keeper of the records, and the asylum inmates were buried there.
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Ah, so where does your research go from here?
Jamjar
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The Queenslander 31 Aug 1895 p405
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/21635369?
...story by himself......79 on 24th May etc....and grim, appalling reading
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Wow, from almost knowing nothing about James at the start to now having a wealth of information and with detail that can be further researched. Nice result.
So the James LIVINSTON death C3512/1903 was him
Gerry
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Well James even names his old dad in Devon and says he was R.N.! So I'm off to Devon and the Navy (online anyway)! Thanks Wivenhoe, the Trove article was a part of the earlier detective work which took us to Dunwich.
A great result! :)
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I will continue on with further research and post any I find, see he was an apprentice on a ship as a lad so there might be something there as well.
Gerry
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Hi,
Just for instance the Royal Sovereign was a convict ship that arrived in Sydney on 13th Jan 1836.
The Tom Icely whom James worked for after he left the Royal Sovereign was a well known land holder in the Bathurst area.
Gerry