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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Ray T on Friday 15 July 16 11:48 BST (UK)
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Birthplace of John SIMMONS from the 1861 (the second one down) clearly "Salop" but where? Thought it might be "Bonsal" but that's in Derbyshire.
To add to the confusion, his wife (the next one down) etc. came from the same place in Staffordshire
I'm confused (as usual, some may say!) Any ideas?
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Have you found him in any other census? Can you give his date of birth and where he was in 1861 so I can look at the whole image as that might help?
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Could it be a corruption of Boningale - Genuki says it is on the "edge of Staffordshire" :-\ especially as the next two entries appear to be in Staffordshire, but B... is dittoed
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Have you found him in any other census? Can you give his date of birth and where he was in 1861 so I can look at the whole image as that might help?
On both the 1841 (HO 107/974/8) and 1851 (HO 107/2016) he's in Wheaton Aston (Shropshire) with a birth date on the latter of 1787. I've yet to find him on the 1861.
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Could it be a corruption of Boningale - Genuki says it is on the "edge of Staffordshire" :-\ especially as the next two entries appear to be in Staffordshire, but B... is dittoed
I'll have a look at that one - I'll have to be quick my FindMyPast sub runs out today!
Edit - That's certainly a possibility; the county boundaries are all over the place, with little logic, in that part of the world and it might explain why the only potential baptism I could find for him (and had discounted) was in Wolverhampton.
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There is a bapt of John Simons 26 March 1787 in Boningale Shropshire, father Thomas, mother Eleanor
Cas
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Could it be a corruption of Boningale - Genuki says it is on the "edge of Staffordshire" :-\ especially as the next two entries appear to be in Staffordshire, but B... is dittoed
Its name was formerly spelt as Boningall or Bonninghall. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boningale
Stan
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I think that clinches it - I've had problems with census enumerators/thick Shropshire accents before.
As he named one of his daughters Ellen and one of his sons Thomas, it's more likely his mother and father were Eleanor and Thomas that the ones from Wolverhampton (John & Mary).
If only I could find his marriage!
Thanks all.
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There is a Dec 30th 1833 marriage of John Simmons(widower) to Ann Harvey(spinster) at Wolverhampton,St Peter - possible?
Regards
Roger
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There is a Dec 30th 1833 marriage of John Simmons(widower) to Ann Harvey(spinster) at Wolverhampton,St Peter - possible?
Regards
Roger
Yes Roger, I'd spotted that but had to break off to do something "important"!
I think it's relevant because John was definitely a widower when he married Ann. I think he may have died by 1861 but, at that time, it appears that his youngest son Timothy was living with William, who appears to be his half-brother, 33 years his senior.
Thanks
Ray
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My first thought when looking at the image was Brewood.
Worth a look perhaps?
Tony
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I also thought is said Brewood :)
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Can you give us the 1861 census reference, so that we can look for ourselves. There may be clues from other entries on the page.
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Can you give us the 1861 census reference, so that we can look for ourselves. There may be clues from other entries on the page.
Slip of the finger (sorry) the image is from the 1851 as I confirm in Post No.3 which includes the census refs.
Finding him on the 1861 (assuming he was still alive) might help.
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My first thought when looking at the image was Brewood.
Worth a look perhaps?
Tony
Thereby hangs the tale! I have something of a dilemma. There are three possible baptisms for John.
1) 26 March 1787 - in Boningale - son of Thomas & Eleanor
2) 15 Jan 1787 - in Wolverhampton - son of John & Mary
3) 18 May 1788 - in Brewood - son of Mary
It must be unusual to find three people of the same name baptised within 6 miles of each other within less than 18 months!
I've studied the image long and hard and am convinced that it says "Bonegal" - look, in particular, at the loop beneath the "G" which wouldn't be there in Brewood.
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I have looked at the original image, and agree now that it is Bonegal ;)
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There is a burial for a John Simmons of Wheaten Aston at Lapley on 12th December 1855. He was aged 75, and died of typhus fever.
Although the age is a few years out, he could possibly be your man.
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Is this a better image? :-\
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Ann Simmons of Wheaton Aston buried 6th November 1857 at Lapley aged 52. She died of paralysis.
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Both of those are useful, Judy, thanks. Do you have a reference for these? The inclusion of a cause of death suggests that they are from the actual death certificates.
Just to add to the confusion, the GRO index includes deaths for two people called John Simmons in Q4 1853; one in Penkridge and the other in Wolverhampton ??? ???
R
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Hi Ray
No, I don't have the certificates. Rather unusually the actual church register includes the cause of death.
Judy ;)
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I've studied the image long and hard and am convinced that it says "Bonegal" - look, in particular, at the loop beneath the "G" which wouldn't be there in Brewood.
Quite right Ray, I missed the loop as it's quite faint on the picture. Bonegal would probably be a mis-spelling of Boningale. The enumerator seemingly copied it down phonetically - something most of us have come across on census returns!
Tony