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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: Lisa in California on Thursday 14 July 16 04:20 BST (UK)
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I apologize for asking a question that most likely has already been answered (and probably multiple times). :-\ My mum probably will only be able to take a dna test one time.
My mum's friend recently had a dna test done and now my mum is very interested in having one done as well. I've been researching many, many years and this is really the first time that anyone in my family has shown real interest in genealogy.
While it would be nice to find distant relatives, both my mum and I are mainly interested in finding out our "ethnic mix". She is Canadian and has Irish and English ancestors. My mum has been told that her father's ancestors were from Norway. Would a test have results for her father's side?
May I ask, please, if someone can recommend which test she should have done? A friend of mine (male) did have the dna test done by National Geographic and is quite happy with the findings. He mentioned that it was more expensive than other companies, but he feels that one gets what one pays for.
Also, I would be very interested in finding out about my father's ancestors. May I ask please if my brother has a test done, would it give findings for just our paternal grandfather, or would both of our father's parents' lineage be included?
Thank you for reading this long post.
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I'm sure many more knowledable people than myself will help you with advice but it is said that the FTDNA test has more uptake than others:
https://www.familytreedna.com/
Results on all tests have an American skew because more Americans take DNA tests.
Your Mum could take a Family Finder test which gives results, mixed from both her maternal and paternal lines. It shows percentages of ethnicity. Results are fairly vague, but you will be able to contact "cousins" and use a paper trail to try to find out how you connect. You will not necessarily know which side of her family any connection comes from, so a bit more detective work may be needed.
The other test she could take is an MT- DNA test but this will only trace only her maternal line.
She cannot take the Y-DNA test - this is only for males.
I believe that once they have the sample, you can upgrade the test at a cost if you wish, so no further tests are required. Someone will correct me if that is wrong.
The test your brother could take to trace the male line, is the Y-DNA test. It follows the same line as the surname would. It is more useful to take the more expensive tests as they give better results. He can also take the other two tests.
Hope that helps a bit. I know very little about DNA and find the whole subject overwhelming, though myself and a couple of family members have been tested. It is quite interesting.
I believe some tests seem cheaper but postage is more expensive, so check the fine print before ordering.
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Hi Ruskie:
While I've heard/read very little about dna testing, I had not heard about postage costs - thank you for the head's up!
Thank you very much for explaining the various tests; it is very helpful.
It is too bad about the American skew, but understandable I suppose. (I also was born in Canada; my "last" ancestor to arrive in Canada was in 1870. So, having an American skew isn't beneficial for me.) ;)
Through the decades, I've actually been able to find all of my gggrandparents and on some lines, at least one generation prior to that, so at least contacting and identifying "cousins" might be a little bit easier for me than if I had just started researching. Who knows how detailed "their" research might be which could provide a stumbling block for us. ;)
On my mum's side, I can only trace her ancestors back to England and Ireland, so it would be very interesting to read her dna results. (She also believes, in addition to the Norway connection, one ancestral line was from Holland.) My dad's side is English and Irish and I know at least one branch can be traced to the Netherlands. I would be very interested to see if my Irish Stuart's were in fact from Scotland, if that is possible to pinpoint, of course.
Thank you again, Ruskie. I really appreciate your help.
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Lisa, don't expect results which are country specific. The family finder results will just give vague areas, so Holland and Norway will most likely be covered under the same "umbrella". Similar with English and Irish and Scottish.
Some of your 'cousins' may give clues - so for example you may find a lot of matches with people whose ancestors come from Holland.
It is worth doing, but don't expect miracles. Some people have success in finding connections with others but I haven't been that lucky. There are no guarantees.
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Lisa, don't expect results which are country specific. The family finder results will just give vague areas, so Holland and Norway will most likely be covered under the same "umbrella". Similar with English and Irish and Scottish.
Yes, I had forgotten that part! My friend's results were not country-specific. Thank you for pointing it out - now I won't be disappointed when we get my mum's results back.
While it would be nice to try to find "cousins", our main interest is in finding out in which regions our ancestors "originated", so I think we will be satisfied with any results (keeping in mind that there could be errors in the results).
Thank you again, Ruskie. :)
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Hello Lisa,
I have collected some decent information about DNA testing for genealogical purposes and dedicated a portion of the ovensfamily.net web page to the subject, If you are so inclined you could review some of the information there (http://www.ovensfamily.net/#!ovens-dna-project/cazc) and then make an informed decision. I hope you find it helpful.
FTDNA tests tend to be a little more expensive then Ancestry or 23 and me but, do seem to provide more thorough information along with the option to upgrade the test later without having to submit a new sample. I wouldn't worry too much about the number of participants with a particular testing agency. Once you receive the results you can obtain a digital file of the data and upload it to gedmatch.com which is a site which allows results from all of the various testing agencys to be pooled and queried. I have attached a screenshot showing a quick overview of what the FamilyFinder results would look like from FTDNA. I also attached a screenshot of my Ancestry DNA results so you can get an idea. Keep in mind these are combined results of maternal and Paternal lines and neither testing agency provides an indication about which results are from your mother vs. Father. You would have to order individual more specific tests to get those types of results. The DNA info page I mentioned at the beginning of this post provides some information about the various types of tests.
I hope this is helpful and not info overkill. Have a great day, Kyle S. Ovens
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Hi Kyle:
Thank you for sharing the information; it is very interesting. We will determine which test would be the best for my mum and also consider the costs.
Thank you so much for your guidance, it is appreciated!
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Lisa
Just to add something about the tests
AncestryDNA collects the sample as a "saliva"
FTDNA collects using mouth swabs
Older people find the "saliva" test more daunting - I did !! {about a teaspoonful required in the vial}
FTDNA send 2 swabs per pack.
Kim
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Good points Kim.
The FTDNA mouth swab is a scraping inside the cheek with a rough plastic swab.
My local post office were a bit nonplussed when I told them what was inside for customs purposes. ;D
Excellent images Kyle - I didn't know how to include mine.
See what I mean Lisa about how vague the results are?
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Hi Lisa,
I'll state from the onset that I am hugely sceptical about BioGeographical Analysis (BGA) derived from autosomal DNA tests. The science is simply insufficiently advanced, and the reference databases with which your DNA will be compared are too small.
You can determine your own ethnicity by calculating the contribution of each ancestor at the end of each ancestral line, e.g. if one of your eight great-grandparents was 100% Irish, then you are about 6% Irish.
How many generations ago does the purely Norwegian ancestor appear? If it's more than 5 generations back, i.e. your 3rd great-grandparents, the quantity of inherited DNA may well be negligible.
I really think your money and time would be better spent in researching the non-American lines that you know about.
Justin "The sceptical Engineer" :)
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Kim, thank you for letting me know about the sample differences. I will be sure to ask my mum if she would rather just have the swab test done.
Ruskie, I can picture the reaction when declaring the package. ;D
Hi Justin:
Thank you very much for your feedback. I, too, was skeptical when a friend had her DNA tested a few(?) years ago. I am still not a real believer, but I think now might be the time for my family to try, just to satisfy our curiosity. With my mum's health declining, this is a bit of a time-sensitive topic.
I started researching my ancestors right after I finished a college history course. Through the years, I stopped and started researching, as time allowed. It wasn't until we purchased our first computer that genealogy finally became more than just a hobby; it was a way to find out about the relatives and ancestors whom I never met and to learn more about where they lived and what life was like during those time periods.
We have a copy of a letter that was written in 1932, written by a family member stating her ancestor was Israeli-French and was a silk merchant (I think that was the phrasing). No relatives to whom I spoke truly believed this statement. With the amazing help and research by RootsChatters, we tracked down my previously-"known" English-born ancestor to his real birthplace in the Netherlands. We found out that he was from a Jewish family; not a Church of England family. This sparked my interest in finding out what other surprises I might find.
Going back 5 generations, we believe that all but one were English or Irish (with possibly one ancestor born in France). I don't know when our Ibbotsons left Norway, to settle in England. :-\
After reading everyone's interesting points today, we will determine if mum should take a DNA test and if so, which one would be best for our needs (in this case, possibly learning about our very distant past - even if it is to read that we only have 2% of this or 5% of that). When I first found out that my English-born ancestor Mr. DeJongh was not born in England, it wasn't that I didn't believe it -- I was almost disappointed. If possible, I would like to find out what minute traces might be in my mum's DNA prior to discovering a "foreign" birthplace on my own or with the help of others. ;) Of course, with mum's new interest in having her DNA tested, it could be interesting for her to see results (knowing that they may not be entirely correct).
Thank you all for your interest and guidance. :)
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Hi Lisa,
I can understand your desire to have your ailing mum tested. Good luck!
Have none of the expert rootschatters been able trace your roots back to the primordial pool?
You wrote,'If possible, I would like to find out what minute traces might be in my mum's DNA prior to discovering a "foreign" birthplace on my own.'
Surely, unless you happen to be of the 'First Nation', your DNA will be purely European. As Ruskie mentioned, no autosomal test will be able to distinguish between the countries of the British Isles. Moreover, British DNA is probably very similar to Dutch DNA and the DNA from other northern European countries.
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It probably doesn't matter much which company you use, but if you choose Ancestry or FamilyTreeDNA you can upload to Gedmatch (free) and play around with the admixture tools on their site. Admixture estimates will improve over time. The important thing is to capture that sample.
The thing with Europe or anywhere is that there are no distinct genetic boundaries.....there's a continuum of DNA clusters/groupings across Europe and the same in Asia and in Africa.
However, if the test shows some Ashkenzi Diaspora or West Africa I'd really sit up and take notice.
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However, if the test shows some Ashkenzi Diaspora or West Africa I'd really sit up and take notice.
May I ask why? :)
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However, if the test shows some Ashkenzi Diaspora or West Africa I'd really sit up and take notice.
May I ask why? :)
Because there would be no explanation for that in our tree, and they are also quite distinct, whereas I'm not certain that there really is such a distinction between British Isles and Scandinavian for example.
I use it as an example because a relative received FtDNA results back for two of her relatives and one has some Ashkenazi Diaspora and the other has some Western African, both of which aren't common in our part of the world.
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Oh thanks hurworth. :)
It's just that I have some Ashkenazi and I thought you might be implying that I'm special in some way. ;D
I believe I know who mine comes from.
I apologise for my lack of knowledge, but I think that sometimes small amounts of certain ethnicities can be errors - there is a term for it I believe, but I don't recall what it is.
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Thank you again to all who have posted and for raising very interesting points. Perhaps at this time, I should see if I can look at my friend's report again, to determine what it was in his results that made me want to have our family tested.
Thank you all for your help and guidance. :)
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As time was ticking on and we had not made a decision which test to have done, we settled on the less-expensive one offered by Ancestry (just to get it done).
While the test came back with somewhat expected results - perhaps I don't know enough about how results are determined - I was surprised with the percentages. I was expecting a (much) higher percentage for Great Britain.
Ireland - 68%
Europe West and Scandinavia - totaled 21%
Great Britain - 7%
and traces from Iberian Peninsula and Europe East
(with less than 1% Africa)
I'm pleased that we had the test done. Now I'm on a mission to find out more about her 4 English ancestors.
Thank you for your guidance with the tests. I hope to eventually talk my brother into having one done as well. ;)
PS The results did show one 1st-2nd cousin match, a few 3rd-4th cousin matches and a number of other matches. We already knew about the 2nd cousin. I found a 3rd-4th cousin match; I didn't realize our ancestor's brother's family ended up in the states (we are Canadian). It will be interesting to find out if we can find other distant relatives. :)
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This is a "hot off the blog" article about ethnicity percentages that is well worth a read.
https://dna-explained.com/2017/01/11/concepts-calculating-ethnicity-percentages/
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Hi hurworth:
Thank you for providing the link; things make more sense now especially taking into consideration Great Britain's history (with "invading" tribes), and the fact that I can positively only find births/other records for 28 out of 32 of her ggg-grandparents. Of course, the site provided much more information than those two things. ;)
I am pleased with how quickly she received the results and just overall pleased that we had it done. I am also learning more about history (in particular, the "Iberian Peninsula"), which is one of the reasons I enjoy genealogy so much.
Thank you for taking an interest in this thread. :)
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This is a "hot off the blog" article about ethnicity percentages that is well worth a read.
https://dna-explained.com/2017/01/11/concepts-calculating-ethnicity-percentages/
Thank you for including the link a very useful read. Indeed I would say anyone thinking of taking a DNA test for the "ethnicity" results would benefit from reading it before taking the test and then they would see the limitations of the tests.
I did the 64 great great great great grandparents test mentioned in the article which says I am 73.5%English, 25% probably English and 1.5% other which does not compare at all with my ftDNA results of 67% Western and Central Europe and 33% Scandinavian and nil British Isles. (Just to highlight the inconsistency a bit more my father has a large percentage of British Isles in his results).
I also noted in the comments section that there are rumours again that Ancestry could be going public this year which would in part account for why they are pushing their DNA tests so hard trying to boost income.
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She is Canadian and has Irish and English ancestors.
You should look at the relatively new Living DNA test.
It currently identifies 80 regions including 21 across the UK and will soon be adding specific regions within Ireland.
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They have been around since 2004 according to their website. By comparison, FTDNA were founded in 2000.
I thought that any test results can only give an indication of origins based on others in their database who have tested? How can they give region specific results where other testing companies cannot? I'm not sure I believe their claims, though it would be nice if they were true.
This quote from their website sounds a bit pretentious ... "we are committed to supporting individuals reach a point of truth in their lives". Huh?
;D
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They can make the claim because they have access to a database the other providers don't.
They use Oxford University's People of the British Isles study as their database:
http://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/
https://www.livingdna.com/en-au/about-living-dna
The participants of the study needed to have all four grandparents born within a specific distance - 80 Kms from memory, which is the requirement for the equivalent Irish study:
https://www.livingdna.com/en-au/blog/214/new-living-dna-project-aims-map-ireland-s-genetic-history
Reliably reviewed here:
https://cruwys.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Living%20DNA
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Yes, decent reviews. When I want to reach a point of truth in my life and I have some spare cash I would be interested in taking that test. ;D
(half joking/half serious ;))
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Hi, just wanted to add some food for thought. My father never knew his family, so I did my mom's DNA and mine (since dad's is unavailable now). Using the Gedmatch.com website, I select my dna and my mother's to compare to "many others". I do about 5 at a time and use 3d chromosome comparison. If another person shares chromosomes with only me and NOT my mother: I have found relatives on my FATHER's side. It is a lot of work but I've got pretty proficient with it.
Just an idea for finding family members if you have 2 "known" samples.
Best of luck,
Jan
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Are you aware Jan that with a Tier 1 Gedmatch membership ($10 US for one month) you can create a kit for your father which is your DNA minus your mother's DNA?
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Are you aware Jan that with a Tier 1 Gedmatch membership ($10 US for one month) you can create a kit for your father which is your DNA minus your mother's DNA?
Oh interesting, will have to keep that in mind for when I havemoney.
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Are you aware Jan that with a Tier 1 Gedmatch membership ($10 US for one month) you can create a kit for your father which is your DNA minus your mother's DNA?
Honestly I can think of better things than paying even more money to websites for researching/dna etc. I am very computer literate and have no problem copy and pasting etc as I am doing now.
But thanks for the information,
Jan
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A phased kit of just your father's DNA will give you superior information to what you are getting with your method Jan.