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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: SantaT on Wednesday 13 July 16 01:57 BST (UK)
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I'm researching a man who died in 1747. He was very likely a Particular Baptist, and I wonder if I might find traces of him in the records, if any are extant, of London Baptist churches, of the Particular, or Strict, variety. He would most likely be found in a Southwark or Wapping congregation. Particular Baptists practiced a "believer's baptism" meaning, if the parents of my man were Baptist also, he would not have been baptized as an infant in a C of E. (I know that there are some exceptions.)
Does anyone know whether any records of this era survive, and if so, where they might be found?
Santa T.
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I can't help with your specific query I'm afraid, but there is a church database which may be of some use or give you a starting point.
I had a quick look and as you would expect, the vast majority are C of E:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/churchdb
(Just enter the place name eg Wapping in the box)
I'm sure someone will be along soon who can help you properly. :)
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hi
if you care to post his name we may be able to help more any info on him such as parents names may also help .
regards
trevor
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I'm researching a man who died in 1747. He was very likely a Particular Baptist, and I wonder if I might find traces of him in the records, if any are extant, of London Baptist churches, of the Particular, or Strict, variety. He would most likely be found in a Southwark or Wapping congregation. Particular Baptists practiced a "believer's baptism" meaning, if the parents of my man were Baptist also, he would not have been baptized as an infant in a C of E. (I know that there are some exceptions.)
Does anyone know whether any records of this era survive, and if so, where they might be found?
Santa T.
I think that followers of the Baptist denomination may have a Christening procedure for babies or Infants. But their version of "Baptism" involves Full immersion and is when the person is of an age and understanding when they realise the enormity of their vows.
If you get the opportunity to visit a Baptist Church, ask if they will allow you to see the "bath or pool" in which they carry out this procedure.
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Does anyone know whether any records of this era survive, and if so, where they might be found?
Records of baptisms/marriage/burial should have been handed in to the Registrar-General in 1836 and 1857, and were later deposited at the National Archives (series RG4 and RG8). All these records are available online, at many of the standard research sites.
Some chapels nevertheless retained their own records, and of course there are many other types of records (non-BMD) created by Baptist congregations. Have a look at the Baptist Historical Society for some ideas of places you might try contacting?
http://baptisthistory.org.uk/discover/family-history/
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P.S. The minister performing the Baptist Baptism service is also in the water, and he holds on to the person being Baptised and supports them as he tilts them backwards for the full immersion. I assume that the water is heated.
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Does anyone know whether any records of this era survive, and if so, where they might be found?
Santa T.
I think you might have the wrong end of the stick there Scouseboy.
SantaT is looking for records of baptisms - not details of the baptismal process! ::)
This says that records were not kept, but they are referring to earlier times:
http://baptisthistoryhomepage.com/brit.wapping.bc.by.dubarry.html
I've had a scout around but can't see mention of Baptist Parish registers anywhere. Presumably you are looking for this baptism in the hope of finding his parent's names?
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Santa, I do recommend that you visit a church of the Baptist denomination. Ask them if they can kindly show you the place were Baptism ceremonies are performed.
Your second question can be whether they maintain a register of those having been baptised. They may advise which County Records office holds the archives.
They may not be online, but they may be on microfiche, I think.
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As the man in question died in 1747 it is extremely doubtful that if SantaT turns up at any Baptist church and asks if they know if records were kept in the C17th/C18th in London (and if so, where they are now located) that anyone within the church will be able to answer this question. ::)
I'm surprised you haven't had more replies SantaT as some rootschatters have knowledge of non-conformists. Maybe none of us are having any success with our searches.
I think Bookbox's suggestion is worth following up.
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I have looked at the sites suggested and they are very helpful.
Just to fill you in ---- I have about given up hope of finding the parents of John Harvey ( ? -- 1747), but he was an odd duck in that he apparently was a Particular or Strict Baptist, which was about 1% of the total UK population at the time (at least according to one source) and doubly odd in that he was a very wealthy man, which was not at all typical for Baptists of any kind at that period. At least, as I understand it, and I would be glad to stand corrected. The executor of his will was John Gill, quite a noted clergyman, in Particular Baptist circles at least. And his sister, who is my direct ancestor, was a General Baptist, it seems, and these two denominations were poles apart. at least according to those to whom the theological differences between Particular (Strict) or General loom large.
So I was (still am) in hopes of finding records of a congregation in which he took some part. I'm aware that there are no registers per se, having seen the records of the Mill Yard Meeting House (General and Sabbatarian Baptist), e.g. But I'm just interested in fleshing out a bit my knowledge of this man and his period and want to catch as many glimpses of him as I can.
Again, thanks for all your help.
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So it is his life in general that you are interesting in learning more about?
As his sister is your direct ancestor, do you have her birth/baptism, and therefore their father's or parent's names?
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I am interested in English history as well as genealogy, and learning about this man and his social, geographical and historical context is a way of cutting into this particular period. Also, he was an interesting man -- he seems to have accumulated a lot of wealth in a career somehow in the merchant marine service. But also, I have a faint hope that in these records, I might find clues as to who he hung out with, and through those leads, to family connections other than his sister.
His sister, Mary Harvey, died in 1764 and is described in the St. Mary Whitechapel burial register as aged 85, which is probably not entirely trustworthy, but seems to put her birth date around 1680, which is consistent with what else I know about her. The most plausible baptism entry for her is for a Mary Harvey in Bull Run Independent church, Stepney, in 1680, parents John and Catherine. But I don't have much confidence that this is the right Mary Harvey --for one thing, I haven't found a John Harvey with the same parents, in the right time frame and place. And Catherine is not a name used by Mary for any of her children, nor does it appear as a granddaughter's name. Also, there is some family silver mentioned in a will, with the monogram sHe, which doesn't support (or disprove) the idea that her mother's name was Catherine. So, the long and short of it is, that I don't know who either of their parents are.
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It seems like an interesting family and I can understand your desire to find out more about their life and times. Sorry I can't help.
Presumably you found his sister's name through his will?
If he was a fairly prominent personality, he doesn't warrant a mention in any newspapers of the time does he? :-\,
I hope someone can come up with some leads for you ....