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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: BushInn1746 on Sunday 10 July 16 12:18 BST (UK)
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Hello, I have a George Hood claiming to be of Selby, Yorkshire, born circa 1785 to 1787, married at Selby in 1815 with a Bond.
No entries in the Selby Parish Register for baptism 1781 to 1788 or burial (death 18 September 1845). Marrying with a Bond from the Selby Peculiar Court, suggests possible Dissenter / Non-conformist.
Selby Roman Catholic Church say around the time of George Hood's birth:-
From 1783 Father Edward Leadbitter OP came from Stourton to Selby on alternate Sundays. In 1785 he was appointed to take charge of Selby and this he did until his death in 1788.
Edward Leadbitter's death, mentioning Selby (is on page 30) ...
https://archive.org/stream/obituaries12unknuoft
Edward Leadbitter's alias name was "Burgis"
A search of his name and Burgis brings up a Catholic magazine which says ...
... Driven out of Middleton Hall, Father Antonius Hatton [alias Edward Anthony Hatton] removed the mission to Stourton Lodge, a few miles distant. He began a mission and built a house at Hunslet; and on his death, October 23rd, 1783, was suceeded by Father Edward Leadbitter, known on the mission by the name Burgis.
Because Selby had no R.C. Church building 1780s and meetings were held in the Steward's house of Lord Petre in Ousegate, and Father Leadbitter was visiting Selby on alternate Sundays from Stourton, around the time of George Hood's birth circa 1785 to 1787, could George Hood's baptism be recorded back at Stourton, or any Catholic Church administering Selby?
Thank you
Kind regards, Mark
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If no one can answer this, there is a series of books by Michael Gandy, Catholic Missions and Registers 1700-1800, vol 4 North East England. I'm sorry I don't have a copy, but some records may only just be starrting then, if the Lancashire records are anything to go by. Is the family on the 1767 Returns of Papists? good luck, cb
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Maybe John and George Hood were more deeply involved with the seemly RC religion obsessed big Petre family than you think other than just tenants occupiers of the RC big Petre family property or part owners in deeds
St Mary’s Catholic Church, Selby
St Mary’s Catholic Church, Carlton
http://stmarysselby.org.uk/history.htm
(From link above)
" The history of St Mary's goes back to the time before Catholic Emancipation (1829) and the Restoration of the Hierarchy (1850) "
http://maps.nls.uk/view/102344968
From 1851 map in link above
Find Selby, then find Gowthorpe and Brooke Street and find the Tannery just a little West were the present RC St Mary' church now stands
The 1829 Old St Mary RC chapel Selby was on the acute corner of Gowthorpe and Brooke street ------------------later used as a RC school house
The later 1856 bigger St Mary's church?chapel that is still there today was built either at the site of or part of the old Tannery where George Hood operated from in Gowthorpe (See Google maps for the present church location at the top end of Armoury road. (Tannery 1851)
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The earlier late 18 century/early 19th century till or before 1829 RC meeting place was on Ousegate not far from George Hood at Wren lane.
Date and places of RC in Selby seems to always near George Hood's of the RC big Petre family property
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Bookmarking for interest, that's a good link dobfarm, brings lots of memory's back, I attended the RC School in the village of Carlton :)
Frank.
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Thank you Clayton,
Tried to find a downloadable Return of the Papists 1767, but I shall have to try a Library, or Archive.
Thanks, good spot dobfarm regarding a Tannery, but sorry to say there were two in Gowthorpe, Selby and Hood's 90 pit Tannery with House, Two Cottages, Drying Sheds, Workshop buildings and Engine House was still there in 1865. It was lately occupied by Mrs Hood, with Peter Earl and Michael Rishworth occupying the cottages, [after John Hood's death in 1860 (my 3 x Gt Grandfather), his wife also called Sarah Hood, kept it going for a while].
The Stapleton Family (Catholics) lived at Quosquo Hall, but whether any of my ancestors were Catholics, remains to be seen.
Two of George's sons had Marriage Bonds dated:- 20 Dec 1851 (James Hood) and 5 Dec 1855 (George Hood), possibly due to their Quaker connections.
EDIT:
Online quote (bottom of post) was interesting, because in my Carlton juxta Snaith transcriptions of 1783 ...
"Susannah 2nd dau of John Hinsley of Carlton wheelwright" who was the "son of Thos of Stainforth par; Hatfield wheelwright & Susannah" [Susannah Cockin] who was the "dau of Christopher Cockin of Fishlake, farmer"
There was a Jane Cockin, witness to George Hood's 1815 Marriage at Selby.
Regards Mark
Online Quote
Quosquo Hall. My ancestor John Graves and his wife Susannah (nee Hinsley) lived there along with their children from 1840 approx.
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The Stapleton Family are Baron Beaumont's of Whitley (Hall) & Wentworth (Hall) Lascelles Hall & Carlton Towers earlier Lord John Beaumont of Stirling Scotland
Basically The Beaumont line stopped having boys and the Beaumont line went to the Stapleton family through the a girl marriage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Beaumont
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Beaumont
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RC in Scotland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholicism_in_Scotland
Coopers of Glasgow T-TH10
http://www.glasgowfamilyhistory.org.uk/ExploreRecords/Pages/Merchants-Crafts-and-Apprentices.aspx
The cooper- of Selby -Who trained him ?
Enter in Google books search engine
' hood a cooper glasgow '
There is much more.
https://books.google.co.uk/
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1127 26. The property of Robert Hood, cooper, 1803.
http://www.happyhaggis.co.uk/lanark-ramshorn.htm
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Scottish Chronicle June 30th 1812
At Glasgow-James Hood, cooper Glasgow to Miss Gramham of Brown Field
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CBUbAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA566&dq=hood+a+cooper+glasgow&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=hood%20a%20cooper%20glasgow&f=false
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Pigots trade directory Scotland -Glasgow 1837
John Hood & Co Muslin manufacture - Smith Court, Candleriggs Glasgow
Robert Hood Cooper Candleriggs Glasgow
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0ecNAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA554&dq=hood+a+cooper+glasgow&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=hood%20a%20cooper%20glasgow&f=false
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The Stapleton Family are Baron Beaumont's of Whitley (Hall) & Wentworth (Hall) Lascelles Hall & Carlton Towers earlier Lord John Beaumont of Stirling Scotland
Basically The Beaumont line stopped having boys and the Beaumont line went to the Stapleton family through the a girl marriage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Beaumont
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Beaumont
Hello dobfarm and All
Thanks for the replies, I don't have any document to suggest George Hood came directly from Scotland.
Regarding Quosquo Hall and the Stapleton link, I found another reference in a book about the History of Haddlesey, page 189, also mentioning Miles Stapleton.
https://archive.org/stream/cu31924028137978#page/n221/mode/2up
Regards Mark
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The Stapleton Family are Baron Beaumont's of Whitley (Hall) & Wentworth (Hall) Lascelles Hall & Carlton Towers earlier Lord John Beaumont of Stirling Scotland
Basically The Beaumont line stopped having boys and the Beaumont line went to the Stapleton family through the a girl marriage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Beaumont
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Beaumont
Hello dobfarm and All
Thanks for the replies, I don't have any document to suggest George Hood came directly from Scotland.
Regarding Quosquo Hall and the Stapleton link, I found another reference in a book about the History of Haddlesey, page 189, also mentioning Miles Stapleton.
https://archive.org/stream/cu31924028137978#page/n221/mode/2up
Regards Mark
You don't have any document of any place he came from except a Y in a box on the 1841 census to birth county by a census recorder used to putting ~ Dito
What you have is Wren Lane very skilled trade a Cooper and R Gibson of the same
Coopers named Hood must be of interest first and foremost
There is a Scottish brewer name Hood in Hull
Also on the 1837 trades directory Glasgow is John Hood Wine and spirit merchant
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Hii Mark
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=735893.0
Have you anything on Hood freemasons in your data drawer.
Freeback I'm getting is Robert Hood was a freemason and Deacon convener
http://www.tradeshouse.org.uk/14-incorporated-crafts/coopers/deacons-to-date.aspx
http://www.incorporationofmasonsofglasgow.org/uploads/1/7/2/0/17207928/final_book.pdf
Incorporation of Masons of Glasgow Membership from 1574 to 2013 ...
quote
27 May 2014 ... Thanks must be given to George Mahoney for the images in this book .... 1817-18 . Robert Hood. Cooper. 1819-20. James Hunter. Maltman. unquote - ???
Freemason Selby ::) ??? Could explain how a young mere working class Cooper got into the business society of Selby also the put a light one how high a coopers trade was considered.
FLETCHER DOCUMENTS IN THE LEICESTER CITY MUSEUM
https://www.le.ac.uk/lahs/downloads/FletcherDocsPagesfromVolume19.pdf
of Loughborough to Sir George Beaumont of Stoughton. Grange and ..... Selby, by the appoint ... of meadow: John Hood to Edward Dawson. ... Alien, freemason
Warning!! this could be another dead end.
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Hello dobfarm
Thank you.
Already downloaded my 2 X Gt. Grandfather George Hood of Wigston in the 1870s Register of the Commercial Lodge, but we'll look again.
George Hood had been a Commercial Traveller in the Leather Trade and his Office address was Belvoir Street, Leceister. Henry Peters Tyler was one of his Executors.
Mr Henry Peters Tyler was in partnership with two other Tylers and their business was called Tyler Brothers established 1862, his personal office was also at Belvoir Street.
The Tyler Brothers partnership was dissolved in 1886 and they continued separately.
Henry Peters Tyler set up on his own in 1886 as H. P. Tyler selling boots and shoes, becoming H. P. Tyler Ltd. Tylers shoe shops.
Regards Mark
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Just an observation, your George 2 GT Granddad was a Commercial Traveller and R Gibson wren lane advertised 1800 for a journeyman cooper- thus was George (Died 1845) a journeyman cooper from a later 1806/12 advert from Gibson.
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https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RfliAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA529&dq=andrew+hoods+a+cooper+glasgow&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=andrew%20hoods%20a%20cooper%20glasgow&f=false
1765 - Read
... Fulton in Auchterarder James Forgie shoemaker in Maxwelton Andrew Foulds landlabourer in Old Monkland Andrew ... John Hunter gardiner in Elliock James Hoods cooper in Glasgow James Hamilton there Andrew Hannah wright there
Hoods Andrew, cooper, fouth fide Gallowgate
Jones Glasgow Directory 1787 - East End Glasgow History
http://www.glasgowhistory.co.uk/Books/1787Directory/DirectoryChapters/Directory.htm
Cooper William, merchant, Currie's clofs, High-ftreet ... Cooper James, fhoemaker , north fide Argyle-ftreet ..... Hoods Andrew, cooper, fouth fide Gallowgate
D= (deacon) Trade house Andrew Hood cooper
http://www.glasgowhistory.co.uk/Books/1787Directory/DirectoryChapters/Lists.htm
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Hello dobfarm
Thank you, for you attempts to discover Cooper information.
I really agree with your comment, I have got to find some other record, which name Gibson and Hood at Selby circa 1812, which just might offer some more info / clue, about George Hood.
I am chasing up an Archive for a reply, as to whether they may possibly have the types of Manorial documents (which may possibly help me) e.g. Lord Petre's Lease counterfoil, Tenant's Survey or Rental, amongst their Manor of Selby collections.
There is always some record, hiding away in a bound Volume, a bundle or a file, but little break-down of the cat reference, online.
Thank you, Kind regards Mark
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Hi Mark,
These are the earliest known facts on George Hood d 1845 aged 60 notably R. Gibson a Cooper Wren lane Selby. George's training of being a cooper has mentioned a few times but there are these simple questions, being was George brought up by a master cooper as his apprentice from his parents with modest means to fund his apprenticeship or a poor boy funded and educated by the parish overseer in this modest humble trade and George stays with this trade as a worker at 21 on humble wage. Not George? he is trained, he also has in a few short years aged 25 (ish) to earn income savings or has business knowledge to convince a bank to loan or investment backer to fund him to buy R Gibsons business as the investor has trust in his skills-doubtful. !!
If George was brought up in his fathers or grandfathers well established business as a cooper/brewer with his brothers and say the family business or bank **, who knew George's history of his family upbringing skills in the cooper trade & running the business skills may back George with funding to turn around a bankrupt cooper business. - is possible !!
Maybe I'm wrong! its not R Gibson wanting a an assistant cooper advert George saw in newspaper but George a young man with a few years out of his time aged 25 ready to fly the nest of a family business with maybe older brothers in the trade or business with no prospect there for George and he saw the bankrupt R Gibson cooper Selby business 1807 to 1810 information notice in the newspapers and that attracted him to set up ** to start on his own business in Selby from a far away location was the carrot.
Wheelwrights and cooper trades harmonized as joiner come blacksmith looking after maintenance of wagons and barrels within the brewery trade -A specialize maintenance trade to repair old or make new barrels, cartwheels, carts or wagons - within a business of brewing.
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Hello Dave and All
Extensive research in the British Newspaper Archive (BNA) which includes many Yorkshire titles for possible adverts advertising Richard Gibson's business has been done, using several search terms, one at a time.
I have little knowledge of circa 1812, only that George Hood was an Occupier and Ld Petre was the Proprietor of the Selby premises, with the Land Tax amount.
Baines 1822 confirms George Hood, a Cooper at Wren Lane.
The 1835 Auction advert in the Bradford Newspaper of many Lots at Selby for Auction (likely a chunk of the Manor being sold off) indicating that Lot 15 in Wren Lane was occupied by George Hood his Under-tenants and John Green.
The matching 1836 Property Deed Registration Petre and Others to Hood (naming all the parties) confirms regarding the Wren Lane premises by [likely Manorial] Survey "heretofore in the occupation of Richard Gibson and Thomas Holliday but now of the said George Hood and his undertenants and of John Green having premises of William Hood on & towards the southeast the said street called Micklegate" ...
Thank you & where I go from here
I really appreciate your burning quest to help and other friendly Rootschatters, Goughy, Bumblebee, and all, for every effort to uncover new information, and Frank who drove to the R.C. Cemetery, to look.
But, I really want to concentrate now, on securing replies from a couple of Archives, one already contacted (& now re-contacted) and a second just contacted, as to what they hold in their Petre Collections and visiting, if they are unable to do a copying service.
Many, many thanks to all who have looked for information and all who contributed to my various threads.
I send my kind regards Mark
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My interest is purely the challenge ! of this man with no beginning and no resting end place ??? but well detailed life in Selby.
Just to add ! George marriage 1815 confirms George as a cooper and (I forget which one off hand) a 1818 trade directory confirms George at Wren lane Cooper.
I'll continue with my own research on these Glasgow Hood(s) that most likely comes to nothing but still good elimination work -but one never knows as my find something ??? also Hood's keep popping up as wine and spirit dealers plus brewing or booze in general ;D all over the UK - ???
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My interest is purely the challenge ! of this man with no beginning and no resting end place ??? but well detailed life in Selby.
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Hello dobfarm
Thank you.
Jonathan Hutchinson (friend and Arbitrator - George Hood's 1846 Will) was from Gedney, Lincs.
1 Feb 1811
On Sunday the 13th ult. in Spittle-fields, London, in the 77th year of his age, ... the Rev. Robert Hood, M.A. Curate of Guyhirn Chapel, in the Parish of Wisbech St Mary, and Master of the Grammar-school at Holbeach, in this county. He was appointed to that situation on the death of the late Rev. Richard Gibson, M.A. who died Oct. 1st, 1783.- ... The right of nomination of Guyhirn Chapel is in the gift of the Rev. Abraham Jobson, D.D. Vicar of Wisbech St Peter's with St. Mary's annexed; and the school of Holbeach is in the gift of Feoffees, with a proviso that no one should be admitted to the mastership of the said school but a Graduate of one of the universities of Oxford or Cambridge.
Lincolnshire Chronicle 28 December 1838.
At Holbeach, on the 15th inst, Mrs Hood, sen., relict of the Rev. Robert Hood: her remains were interred, on the 19th, in the family vault in the parish church at that place.
10 Dec 1813. On Wednesday the 1st instant, Mr. Edward Goddard, grocer and draper of Holbeach, to Miss Mary Eleanor Hood, youngest daughter of the late Rev. Robert Hood, of that place.
9 July 1819. [Thurs 1st] Same day, at Holbeach, Mr Oldershaw, of Gedney Dyke, to Miss Martha Hood, eldest daughter of the late Rev. Mr. Hood, minister of Holbeach and Guyhurn.
27 July 1821. On Tuesday last, aged 33, Mr H. W. Hood, surgeon and apothecary, of Holbeach.
9 Nov 1821. ... the infant daughter of Mr. Robert Hood, of Holbeach.
16 Aug 1839. At Boston, on Friday last, of cancer, occasioned by the drawing of a tooth, aged 43, Mr John Hood of Sleaford, youngest son of the late Rev. Rt. Hood, of Holbeach.
17 Mar 1848. At Moulton Seas End, on Friday last, Mr. Saml. Hood, aged 56, eldest son of the late Rev. Robert Hood Vicar of Holbeach.
Not getting excited - could be a coincidence, need to find baptism / burial in the area for George.
Hopefully, free, on Lincs to the past. Logged in, but can't see images on tablet.
Thanks regards, Mark
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http://www.southhollandlife.com/dr-katherine-storr-archive/
Read all John Bland posts but in particularly post below
scroll down to post John R G Bland posted-: May 2, 2014 at 11:37 pm
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Rev Robert Hoods Will / probate
http://www.genuki.org.uk/files/eng/LIN/Wills/Robert_Hood_of_Holbeach.pdf
See right at the bottom of link page John Bland
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/Holbeach
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Thanks
BTTDB (Back to the Drawing Board)!!
Regards Mark
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Land Tax Records
Richard Gibson was a Tenant of Lord Petre 1797 - 1811
"Hood George" was a Tenant of "Ld Petrie" too, in the Selby Land Tax of March 1812.
Why ? - Receivership ?? 1810/11/12 -must be doc's somewhere ???
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Hello dobfarm
Gibson's Bankruptcy was dealt with at the Guildhall London and he must have complied, because he was granted a Certificate in 1810.
The Guildhall London, former City of London records, are now at the LMA (London Metropolitan Archives).
TNA, Kew, only kept selected bankruptcy files.
The TNA Research Guide on Bankruptcy, gives TNA References ...
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/bankrupts-insolvent-debtors/
Kind regards, Mark
LMA reponse ...
Thank you for your recent email.
Although some Commissioners of Bankrupts held their sittings in Guildhall, very few records survive amongst the archives of the City of London except for the Bankrupts books of the Hallkeeper’s office records which record fees paid to the hallkeepers by the messengers to the Commissioners in Bankruptcy (whose names appear in the left hand column) in respect of sittings 1793-1821 (CLA/040/07/009-025).
I have had a look at the volume of Hallkeepers' accounts for 1807 (CLA/040/07/014) but I regret that the information contained within them is absolutely minimal. These volumes are only a list of names, with no biographical or genealogical details, or even any details of individual cases. I am sorry that this is likely to be disappointing.
There are registers of commissions at the National Archives which may be worth pursuing. It sounds as though you have already made use of their research guide, which can be found at the following link:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/bankrupts-insolvent-debtors/
Records of the Petre family, including estate records with some relating to Selby, are held at Essex Record Office and it may be worth contacting them in case there are any surviving records of rentals (http://www.essexrecordoffice.co.uk/
I am sorry that we are unable to offer further assistance in this instance, but wish you good luck with your research.
Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further queries.
Yours Sincerely [name was supplied]
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Only Gibson Bankruptcy case in the B Reference, 1807 to 1812, but wrong Gibson.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_st=adv&_aq=Gibson&_cr1=B&_dss=range&_sd=1807&_ed=1812&_ro=any&_hb=tna
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The possibilities are:
(a)
George bought the cooper business 1811 to 1812 a time limit 1810 bankrupt certificate in newspaper notice as R Gibson. 1811 R Gibson still therefore on land tax 1811, thus if any advert to sell the business and it would be in newspapers from mid 1810 to land tax entry date of George hood 1812. George Hood sees the advert from somewhere in the UK with his trade a Cooper.
or
(b)
George Hood trained the skills of the master cooper under R Gibson come business wheeler dealers 1797 to 1811 but I doubt George Hood would be employed by R Gibson after he went bankrupt 1807 and about the same year George would have come out of his training time age 21 I George was born about circa 1786. This would leave George out of work 1807 to 1812. Though John Hood was around 1780's land tax to 1819 burial year as could be father or granddad of George.
Date years 1797 to 1807 fit exactly for George to start and finish an apprenticeship though if he was born 1785/6.
(a) seems most likely though.
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Hello dobfarm and All
George Hood (who died Sept 1845) was rubbing shoulders with two other Selby characters John Green (c.1835-1836) and John Adams (1845 and Mrs Hood's Tannery 1865) ...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=752270.msg6007698#msg6007698
Kind regards, Mark
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Hello dobfarm and All
According to the Wren Lane, Selby, Deed Registration of 1836, "Thomas Holliday" also occupied the Wren Lane premises.
TNA has a Thomas Halliday, Old South Sea House, Broad Street, London, merchant and insurance broker (Dealer and Chapman), bankrupt. 1811, July 16. Cat Ref: B 3/2182
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_st=adv&_aq=Halliday&_col=0&_cr1=B&_dss=range&_sd=1800&_ed=1820&_ro=any&_hb=tna
Regards Mark
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James Mountain 'History of Selby' 1800
Same page
Richard Gibson cooper Wren lane 1800
Thomas Halliday fish monger Wren lane 1800
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TaBbAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA57&dq=richard+gibson+wren+lane+selby+cooper&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=richard%20gibson%20wren%20lane%20selby%20cooper&f=false
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James Mountain 'History of Selby' 1800
Same page
Richard Gibson cooper Wren lane 1800
Thomas Halliday fish monger Wren lane 1800
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TaBbAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA57&dq=richard+gibson+wren+lane+selby+cooper&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=richard%20gibson%20wren%20lane%20selby%20cooper&f=false
Thanks dobfarm
I could not find any link Gibson to Thomas Halliday of London, in the Gazette.
Regards Mark
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I wonder if having connections to ships information on the river docks at Selby- these local Selby general tradesmen were doing a bit of insurance gambling for big profit on the Lloyds 'names' for ship insurance -(chaman) and their ship got sunk.~ or ~ as Dicking's Mr Micawber's ship did not come in. ;D
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Protestant Dissenters' Registry Daniel Williams Library, Redcross Street, Cripplegate, London
Start date April 6th 1743 - End date Dec 30th 1837
The Protestant Dissenters' Registry served the congregations of Baptist, Independents and Presbyterians in London and within a twelve mile radius of the capital. However, parents from most parts of the British Isles and even abroad also used the registry. It was started in 1742, with retrospective entries going back to 1716, and continued until 1837. Unlike RG4, RG5 contains only the birth records.
http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/help/aboutRG5.htm#whatis
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Thanks dobfarm for your replies
Regarding dissenters, I emailed the Williams Library and a University a while back (Uni replied).
There are three known types of surviving Selby Dissenting Registers it seems, one starts 1790s, one called the Dissenters Register starting very early 1800s (James Collinson's children are baptised 'Dissenters') and the other being Quakers.
I am in email/verbal contact with two other archives, re other records, I wish to see in person.
Regards Mark
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Working on the highly slim chance a Glasgow Hood Coopers theory- but not impossible !! ~ ? 1841 census could be wrong on George's birth county considering the Gibson bankrupt or Gibson wanting another cooper-known advert 1800 and possible unknown adverts 1801 to say 1806 in national newspapers. ( or Scottish newspapers ?)
Scottish People website maybe worth a look at for a George Hood 1784 to 1788 bapt and 1845 burial in Catholic or any denomination.
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
Need to buy credits and register
PS there is also that William Hood a cooper in trouble with the law at Loanhead Scotland
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...
Scottish People website maybe worth a look at for a George Hood 1784 to 1788 bapt and 1845 burial in Catholic or any denomination.
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PS there is also that William Hood a cooper in trouble with the law at Loanhead Scotland
Thanks, I'm a member of Scotsland People. They only had (and still have) two marriages listed for 1845.
I seem to recall saving a download of something, but it does not link to Selby or Yorkshire :-[
No 1845 burials for George Hood ...
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/people/george_hood_1845_1845
Been looking at the surviving Manor of Selby records (I'll post information on appropriate thread).
Regards Mark
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Hi Mark
Not quite sure which thread to drop the following snippets, but.....
Edward Burton (Sarah Russell's grandfather) was living in dwellings owned by Lady Stourton in 1781 and later Lord Petre
Interestingly, in 1717 there are some Burton's of Selby in the West Yorkshire Roman Catholic Oath records and whilst browsing the following were listed in 1717:
Nathaniel Hudd
Roger Hudd
Samuel Hudd
Not sure what these snippets bring to the cause, but maybe worth noting for future reference
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Thanks Goughy
I have got the Will of Roger Hood (photos from Archivist holding the Howard Vyse Family collection). Also have Roger Hood's Will, Samuel Hudd's 1738 Admin and Matthew Hood's 1717 Admin (see link below) from the Borthwick via FindMyPast.
Link to the Register entry of the Admin of Matthew Hood of Selby, dated 29 May 1717 in Latin (from Microfilm at Borthwick, camera set to daylight), with translation by Rootschat member Bookbox ...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=751453.0
If you scroll down (above link), you'll also see my photo of Matthew Hood's 1717 grave and his Widow Elizabeth who died 1732, in Selby Abbey.
Recently, I was asking the Archives at Beverley, who had a John Hood mentioned in a photocopy Catholic Index on their shelves (but not the actual pages, due to the John Hood reference not being in East Riding), but felt their photocopy Index entry referred to the York area and an Apprenticeship record mentioning John Hood, printed in the Catholic Record Society Miscellanea Volume IV (free online).
The Catholic Lands of Lady Catherine Petre of Selby were inrolled in 1720, and a description extract I have refers to a Messuage with small close in the Market Place and five fields (named) at Selby which were lately in the occupation of one Hood a Barber ...
Regards Mark
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Hi Mark
Not quite sure which thread to drop the following snippets, but.....
Edward Burton (Sarah Russell's grandfather) was living in dwellings owned by Lady Stourton in 1781 and later Lord Petre
Interestingly, in 1717 there are some Burton's of Selby in the West Yorkshire Roman Catholic Oath records and whilst browsing the following were listed in 1717:
Nathaniel Hudd
Roger Hudd
Samuel Hudd
Not sure what these snippets bring to the cause, but maybe worth noting for future reference
Goughy
Thank you.
It means those three Hudds of Selby were likely Catholics and/or Dissenting from the State (C of E) Church, but were forced to swear some type of oath to the Government.
Catholics refusing to take the oaths of loyalty were required to register their names and estates at quarter sessions or face the seizure of their property. The Forfeited Estates Commission was responsible for overseeing the seizure of the estates and details can be found in the close rolls held at TNA
They didn't really want to and Hardwicke's Act meant they felt partly forced against their will, into getting into bed with the State Church of England, when it came to marrying.
When it came to marrying, they had to make an Allegation and Bond (because we won't attend the State Church for worship, nor attend worship three Sundays in a row before Marriage), but back then everyone (except those exempted or Special License) were forced by Act to marry in a State Church.
I doubt very much my George Hood went to a Parish Church (except when he was compelled to by Law on his Marriage day), which possibly accounts for no witness signature on any other Parish Church Marriages.
Upbringing, is to have deep respect for our Queen and H.M. Law.
Mark
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Hi Mark
Not quite sure which thread to drop the following snippets, but.....
Edward Burton (Sarah Russell's grandfather) was living in dwellings owned by Lady Stourton in 1781 and later Lord Petre
Interestingly, in 1717 there are some Burton's of Selby in the West Yorkshire Roman Catholic Oath records and whilst browsing the following were listed in 1717:
Nathaniel Hudd
Roger Hudd
Samuel Hudd
Not sure what these snippets bring to the cause, but maybe worth noting for future reference
Goughy
Thank you.
It means those three Hudds of Selby were likely Catholics and/or Dissenting from the State (C of E) Church, but were forced to swear some type of oath to the Government.
Catholics refusing to take the oaths of loyalty were required to register their names and estates at quarter sessions or face the seizure of their property. The Forfeited Estates Commission was responsible for overseeing the seizure of the estates and details can be found in the close rolls held at TNA
They didn't really want to and Hardwicke's Act meant they felt partly forced against their will, into getting into bed with the State Church of England, when it came to marrying.
When it came to marrying, they had to make an Allegation and Bond (because we won't attend the State Church for worship, nor attend worship three Sundays in a row before Marriage), but back then many were forced by Act to marry in a State Church.
I doubt very much my George Hood went to a Parish Church, which possibly accounts for no witness signature on any Parish Church Marriages.
Upbringing, is to have deep respect for our Queen and H.M. Law.
Mark
If your talking about George Hood who married 1815 died 1845 in Selby parish (most likely in Selby Abbey) his marriage had witnesses and all his children baptised in Selby parish C of E (again Selby Abbey the likely venue)
Unless you mean George Hood D 1845 did not sign as a witness to any marriage in Selby parish or other parishes but that does not mean he did not attend church at Selby Abbey
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Hi Mark
Not quite sure which thread to drop the following snippets, but.....
Edward Burton (Sarah Russell's grandfather) was living in dwellings owned by Lady Stourton in 1781 and later Lord Petre
Interestingly, in 1717 there are some Burton's of Selby in the West Yorkshire Roman Catholic Oath records and whilst browsing the following were listed in 1717:
Nathaniel Hudd
Roger Hudd
Samuel Hudd
Not sure what these snippets bring to the cause, but maybe worth noting for future reference
Goughy
Thank you.
It means those three Hudds of Selby were likely Catholics and/or Dissenting from the State (C of E) Church, but were forced to swear some type of oath to the Government.
Catholics refusing to take the oaths of loyalty were required to register their names and estates at quarter sessions or face the seizure of their property. The Forfeited Estates Commission was responsible for overseeing the seizure of the estates and details can be found in the close rolls held at TNA
They didn't really want to and Hardwicke's Act meant they felt partly forced against their will, into getting into bed with the State Church of England, when it came to marrying.
When it came to marrying, they had to make an Allegation and Bond (because we won't attend the State Church for worship, nor attend worship three Sundays in a row before Marriage), but back then everyone (except those exempted or Special License) were forced by Act to marry in a State Church.
I doubt very much my George Hood went to a Parish Church (except when he was compelled on his Marriage day), which possibly accounts for no witness signature on any other Parish Church Marriages.
Upbringing, is to have deep respect for our Queen and H.M. Law.
Mark
Not sure I agree with your last few paragraphs.
I am not sure everyday English Catholics cared much if they married in the CofE (a reformed Catholic church) or not.
I think people were more easy going and flexible about religion.
It wasn't unusual for Catholics to be baptised, married or buried in the CofE
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Thanks dobfarm
His wife Sarah may have pushed for their baptisms.
I feel George Hood has married Sarah Russell an Anglican / C of E, but George possibly not one himself.
If George Hood was C of E, he could simply have attended the Parish Church three Sundays in a row, no need for a Marriage Allegation or Bond, as he very easily satisfied the residence requirement in the Parish of Selby and did not marry for 2 months, so not a hurried marriage either.
Mark
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Hello
I am very sorry, but religious beliefs 220 years ago were very far from easy going and cosy, if you deviated from the State Church of England, you could be persecuted and put into prison for your beliefs.
I also agree some were religion hopping and changing to other faiths, making the Genealogists job (our research) very difficult for some.
Mark
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Hello
I am very sorry, but religious beliefs 220 years ago were very far from easy going and cosy, if you deviated from the State Church of England, you could be persecuted and put into prison for your beliefs.
Not sure what you mean by 'deviate from the State Church of England'?
Do you have any examples of everyday people being persecuted and put in prison for their religious beliefs 200 years ago?
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In the 16th Century Henry VIII made the Church of England the State Church.
Those who had their own strong religious convictions contrary to the Church, could be hounded, shunned, refused dole (poor relief), etc.
1650 to 1689 Sufferings of the People Called Quakers (1689 was an early Act of Toleration)
https://archive.org/stream/collectionofsuff01bess
I understand, only the Quakers and Jews were the first to get some limited toleration.
Somewhere on the internet there is an old book, which mentions the other faiths such as Baptists and others asking the Quakers about their Legal battles and how they got their toleration to practice, because these others wanted the same religious freedom themselves.
Selby Catholics met in the Steward's house of the Lord of the Manor 1780s.
Some owners of Manors like Lord Petre were Catholic and often assisted fellow Catholics, Presbyterians and Protestants who stuck firm to their beliefs, with somewhere to live, some work, when they felt compelled to move to another town.
Looking at the Returns of Papists Volume 2 1767 (covering much of Yorkshire) and their ages, with their years of residency, few Catholics seem to have been resident in the same place since birth.
Also note "reputed priest" in some Yorkshire places, in the "Returns of Papists 1767" Survey of Catholics and if this Catholic Record Society publication is a true transcription of the original documents, it suggests that the local Catholic Priest was NOT publicly known and also suggests the Catholics may be meeting in secret OR wishing to keep their priest secret at least in 1767.
The Catholics did not get their formal Relief and religious freedom until the late 18th Century.
Papists Act 1778 - First Act for Roman Catholic Relief.
Roman Catholic Relief Act 1791 - granted toleration for their schools & places of worship.
Roman Catholic Relief Act 1829 - Act came about, after the repeal of Penal Laws.
Mark
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Thank you for your detailed reply but it doesn't address my original question, reply#41
In the 16th Century Henry VIII made the Church of England the State Church.
Those who had their own strong religious convictions contrary to the Church, could be hounded, shunned, refused dole (poor relief), etc.
Who would be 'hounding' and 'shunning' catholic's in the north of England at this time?
The north was 'catholic', most of the northern landowners were catholic and many would remain so long after Henry's death. There are written accounts of catholic priests openly walking about villages and towns.
The Pilgrimage of Grace (led, as you probably know, by a Selby area man), was a rebellion by northern nobles and gentry. Henry crushed the rebellion and the dissolution of the monasteries continued, but he also had to concede to some of the rebels demands, Ten Articles, to keep peace in the catholic north.
Elizabeth went even further by refusing to follow in her fathers footsteps of bloody reprisal on the peasantry. She rightly believed that even though they might be catholic, they remained loyal to her. The Revolt of the Northern Earls did not have the majority support of the northern catholic peasantry.
Whatever their religion, people adapted to the changes. They might have quietly or even loudly been of the 'old faith' but they also, on the whole, remained patriotic. Elizabeth was popular and known for her tolerance, even in the north.
1650 to 1689 Sufferings of the People Called Quakers (1689 was an early Act of Toleration)
https://archive.org/stream/collectionofsuff01bess
I understand, only the Quakers and Jews were the first to get some limited toleration.
Somewhere on the internet there is an old book, which mentions the other faiths such as Baptists and others asking the Quakers about their Legal battles and how they got their toleration to practice, because these others wanted the same religious freedom themselves.
Selby Catholics met in the Steward's house of the Lord of the Manor 1780s.
Some owners of Manors like Lord Petre were Catholic and often assisted fellow Catholics, Presbyterians and Protestants who stuck firm to their beliefs, with somewhere to live, some work, when they felt compelled to move to another town.
Looking at the Returns of Papists Volume 2 1767 (covering much of Yorkshire) and their ages, with their years of residency, few Catholics seem to have been resident in the same place since birth.
Also note "reputed priest" in some Yorkshire places, in the "Returns of Papists 1767" Survey of Catholics and if this Catholic Record Society publication is a true transcription of the original documents, it suggests that the local Catholic Priest was NOT publicly known and also suggests the Catholics may be meeting in secret OR wishing to keep their priest secret at least in 1767.
The Catholics did not get their formal Relief and religious freedom until the late 18th Century.
Papists Act 1778 - First Act for Roman Catholic Relief.
Roman Catholic Relief Act 1791 - granted toleration for their schools & places of worship.
Roman Catholic Relief Act 1829 - Act came about, after the repeal of Penal Laws.
Mark
Not sure what you are inferring by 'few Catholics seem to have been resident in the same place since birth...'?
England's attitudes to religion were complicated, influencing rebellion and even civil war, but, after Elizabeth, there was no widespread persecution and slaughter of innocents, as was seen on the continent. The Church of England is unique, it is a reformed catholic church, it is a compromise and 'the people' understood that
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Thank you for your detailed reply but it doesn't address my original question, reply#41
In the 16th Century Henry VIII made the Church of England the State Church.
Those who had their own strong religious convictions contrary to the Church, could be hounded, shunned, refused dole (poor relief), etc.
Who would be 'hounding' and 'shunning' catholic's in the north of England at this time?
The north was 'catholic', most of the northern landowners were catholic and many would remain so long after Henry's death. There are written accounts of catholic priests openly walking about villages and towns.
The Pilgrimage of Grace (led, as you probably know, by a Selby area man), was a rebellion by northern nobles and gentry. Henry crushed the rebellion and the dissolution of the monasteries continued, but he also had to concede to some of the rebels demands, Ten Articles, to keep peace in the catholic north.
Elizabeth went even further by refusing to follow in her fathers footsteps of bloody reprisal on the peasantry. She rightly believed that even though they might be catholic, they remained loyal to her. The Revolt of the Northern Earls did not have the majority support of the northern catholic peasantry.
Whatever their religion, people adapted to the changes. They might have quietly or even loudly been of the 'old faith' but they also, on the whole, remained patriotic. Elizabeth was popular and known for her tolerance, even in the north.
1650 to 1689 Sufferings of the People Called Quakers (1689 was an early Act of Toleration)
https://archive.org/stream/collectionofsuff01bess
I understand, only the Quakers and Jews were the first to get some limited toleration.
Somewhere on the internet there is an old book, which mentions the other faiths such as Baptists and others asking the Quakers about their Legal battles and how they got their toleration to practice, because these others wanted the same religious freedom themselves.
Selby Catholics met in the Steward's house of the Lord of the Manor 1780s.
Some owners of Manors like Lord Petre were Catholic and often assisted fellow Catholics, Presbyterians and Protestants who stuck firm to their beliefs, with somewhere to live, some work, when they felt compelled to move to another town.
Looking at the Returns of Papists Volume 2 1767 (covering much of Yorkshire) and their ages, with their years of residency, few Catholics seem to have been resident in the same place since birth.
Also note "reputed priest" in some Yorkshire places, in the "Returns of Papists 1767" Survey of Catholics and if this Catholic Record Society publication is a true transcription of the original documents, it suggests that the local Catholic Priest was NOT publicly known and also suggests the Catholics may be meeting in secret OR wishing to keep their priest secret at least in 1767.
The Catholics did not get their formal Relief and religious freedom until the late 18th Century.
Papists Act 1778 - First Act for Roman Catholic Relief.
Roman Catholic Relief Act 1791 - granted toleration for their schools & places of worship.
Roman Catholic Relief Act 1829 - Act came about, after the repeal of Penal Laws.
Mark
Not sure what you are inferring by 'few Catholics seem to have been resident in the same place since birth...'?
England's attitudes to religion were complicated, influencing rebellion and even civil war, but, after Elizabeth, there was no widespread persecution and slaughter of innocents, as was seen on the continent. The Church of England is unique, it is a reformed catholic church, it is a compromise and 'the people' understood that
Hi Sally
The Honourable James Talbot 1769 was tried at the Old Bailey for exercising his Office (James Robert Talbot).
The last prosecution for celebrating Mass was in 1771. [168 years after Elizabeth I]
Also other restrictions imposed upon Catholics.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8GrGCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT547&lpg=PT547&dq=%22James+Talbot%22+%22Old+Bailey%22+1769&source=bl&ots=LCZe76YUd_&sig=yatN1oKVv0q_bIHisOgbVCbNaMk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjwuI7qu_DWAhWFDxoKHaf3DkMQ6AEISTAL
I see the restrictions and trials imposed, for following Catholic religious convictions, as a type of persecution.
Regards Mark
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Hi Sally
The Honourable James Talbot 1769 was tried at the Old Bailey for exercising his Office (James Robert Talbot).
The last prosecution for celebrating Mass was in 1771. [168 years after Elizabeth I]
Also other restrictions imposed upon Catholics.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8GrGCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT547&lpg=PT547&dq=%22James+Talbot%22+%22Old+Bailey%22+1769&source=bl&ots=LCZe76YUd_&sig=yatN1oKVv0q_bIHisOgbVCbNaMk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjwuI7qu_DWAhWFDxoKHaf3DkMQ6AEISTAL
I see the restrictions and trials imposed, for following Catholic religious convictions, as a type of persecution.
Regards Mark
Hi Mark
James Talbot was acquitted
It seems to have been a rather tiresome time wasting affair, that was chucked out of court
'Council for the crown. - My lord, we despair of being able to make out the charge against the defendant.'
Acquitted .
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t17710220-81-person724&div=t17710220-81#highlight
Added. I had a quick browse on the above Old Bailey Online website, by chance there might be some Hood's. There are quite a few though I couldn't see any 'from Yorkshire', but I did notice quite a few 'Yorkshire men' who seemed to have been in London running pubs, hehe
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Hi Mark
These similar links may interest you (or not ???)
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/news/thousands-catholic-records-available-new-database
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=780638.9
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Hi Mark
...
Edward Burton (Sarah Russell's grandfather) was living in dwellings owned by Lady Stourton in 1781 and later Lord Petre
Interestingly, in 1717 there are some Burton's of Selby in the West Yorkshire Roman Catholic Oath records and whilst browsing the following were listed in 1717:
Nathaniel Hudd
Roger Hudd
Samuel Hudd
Hi Mark
These similar links may interest you (or not ???)
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/news/thousands-catholic-records-available-new-database
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=780638.9
Hi
Thank you dobfarm. It does interest me, there were Hood Catholics dotted about in Yorkshire.
There are Roman Catholic Registers, separate to the C of E Registers (before the late 18th Century Catholic Relief Acts).
My late Grandfather said 40 years ago that there were devout Catholics who would NOT side with the C of E.
Hardwicke's Marriage Act, forced many faiths to marry in the C of E church, but not all of them were C of E attenders.
Until the Catholic Relief Acts came in, the Roman Catholics could not have their own chapel officially and therefore unlikely had their own local burial ground.
Research of the early to mid 18th Century Selby Registers indicate the Parish of Selby (Abbey) Church buried Presbyterians, so not all burials were C of E members. The Selby Presbyterians had their own Chapel from circa 1700, but obviously no burial ground.
A project to film Registers still held by the Roman Catholics began and I understand this project is not yet complete for Yorkshire.
Also, if a Catholic did not swear an Oath his/her land could be seised. It was also awkward to pass property.
The screws were really on devout Catholics and life was made as difficult as possible.
Regards Mark
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Good afternoon
I was drawn to this post because I too am researching the history of a catholic family in the Selby area. In fact they are mentioned by one of the posters in passing.
It is the Hinsley family. The earliest I have been able to evidence is John Hinsley who married Susanna Cockin/g in 1759 at St Lawrence, Snaith.
I understand the Catholic Church in Carlton opened in 1842 and prior to that services took place in a room at what would become Carlton Towers. George HInsley, grandson of the above couple, was buried at the new church in 1847. That is the earliest concrete proof I have of Catholicism in the family, I would like to know how far back it goes.
I would be interested to see the list of recusants mentioned if anyone can point me to it. I would like to see whether the Hinsleys are on it.
I am aware that a later generation provided Cardinal Hinsley, Archbishop of Westminster.
Thanks very much for any help you can offer in pointing me to documents or databases regarding the Catholicism.
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It is the Hinsley family. The earliest I have been able to evidence is John Hinsley who married Susanna Cockin/g in 1759 at St Lawrence, Snaith.
Interesting, I was in "Hinsley" in my school "House" I attended the Catholic secondary school at Carlton.
Frank.
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Good afternoon
I was drawn to this post because I too am researching the history of a catholic family in the Selby area. In fact they are mentioned by one of the posters in passing.
It is the Hinsley family. The earliest I have been able to evidence is John Hinsley who married Susanna Cockin/g in 1759 at St Lawrence, Snaith.
I understand the Catholic Church in Carlton opened in 1842 and prior to that services took place in a room at what would become Carlton Towers. George Hinsley, grandson of the above couple, was buried at the new church in 1847. That is the earliest concrete proof I have of Catholicism in the family, I would like to know how far back it goes.
I would be interested to see the list of recusants mentioned if anyone can point me to it. I would like to see whether the Hinsleys are on it.
I am aware that a later generation provided Cardinal Hinsley, Archbishop of Westminster.
Thanks very much for any help you can offer in pointing me to documents or databases regarding the Catholicism.
Hello
Thank you Louise and Frank (for highlighting Cockin).
Roman Catholic records (not online yet) are usually accessed via the Priest at the Church concerned.
Various County and City Record Offices have some Catholic Registers on film / fiche now.
St Mary's Carlton, R.C.
Apparently, the R.C. Leeds Archives does not usually hold Registers. However their Archives replied 4 Oct 2017:-
The Registers for St Mary's, Carlton, go back to 1744 and some of the early ones are kept here at the Diocesan Archives. The remainder are held at the church.
Leeds Diocesan Archives [Roman Catholic]
Hinsley Hall
62 Headingley Lane
Leeds
LS6 2BX
http://www.dioceseofleeds.org.uk/archives/family/family.php
"Please note the Archives team are unable to carry out record searches on behalf of family historians"
Selby R.C.
Regarding Selby (late 18th Century), according to Rootschatter Claire, the Selby entries are amongst the entries in a R.C. Leeds Register (online).
This would figure, because every two weeks in the 1780s a Catholic Priest came from the Leeds area, to the house of Lord Petrie's Steward (Steward of the Manor of Selby), to hold a service.
----------
Here is a partial quick list of "families" (couples) for SELBY Yorkshire ...
QUOTE
The Catholic records don't go before 1780 - this lot are up to and including 1800.
Selby Catholic families
John & Elizabeth Clayton
John & Mary Field
John & Elizabeth Hick
Benjamin & Mary Johnson
John & Rebecca Kirby (baptised at Selby, living at Hamilton near Selby)
William & Ann Littlewood
Charles & Martha Metcalfe
William & Elizabeth Morley
James & Ann Ralf or Ralph
George & Helen Say
George & Mary Tarboton
Charles & Ann Thompson
John & Mary Warrener
Thomas & Ann Weldrick
Richard & Mary Wilson
Cuthbert & Mary Winshop
I haven't tried looking any earlier, ...
Claire
END of Quote
Mark
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I had a quick look on the Margaret Higgins database of Catholics 1607-1840 but the only Hinsleys seem to be in Staffordshire, unless they used some other spelling, cb
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Thanks everyone. I wrote to the parish priest and he promised to get back to me at some point. Watch this space.