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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Deirdre784 on Friday 08 July 16 00:33 BST (UK)
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Can anyone improve the quality of this newspaper cutting please?
Unfortunately it is only a photocopy of the original cutting from around 1916, but is the best I can get. I'm hoping to approach the local records offices to see if anyone can narrow down the typeface to a particular newspaper so I can look through them for the original, but in the meantime I'm wondering if any of you magicians can help.
The article is written about Walter Leigh (top row, left), a brother of my husband's great grandfather Harry, who is on the bottom row, far right. Another brother William is on the right of the top row, and a half brother and 2 brothers-in-law are also pictured. These are the only photos we have of the family so are delighted to have finally got a copy of the cutting but...
...the man we are really interested in is in the middle of the top row, described as Walter R Leigh, father of the brothers. The text underneath says that Walter R Leigh, late of Pontypridd, fought at Isandlwana (sp!) with the 2nd Warwickshire regiment. Sadly no record can be found of him ever being with the 2nd Warwickshires, or even with any other regiment, though his occupation was given as 'private 24th foot' on his marriage on 31 October 1876 and the birth of his eldest son Walter on 22 March 1877. Another son - registered, we believe, under a false name - was born on 28 Dec 1878, with Walter described as a coachman. They had another 6 children, including one born after Walter's death on 14 June 1891. In both the 1881 and 1891 censuses we believe he and the family are recorded under false names.
Walter Robert Leigh, my husband's great great grandfather, has been the subject of several posts on this website, on several boards, including
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=590648.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=652751.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=704542.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=641217.9
and while we believe we have found all there is to find on him (birth, 2 baptisms, marriage, death, burial, all censuses, children), some things remain a mystery and this picture (if it is him) might help to solve a mystery or would be the icing on the cake.
Can anyone improve the quality enough for the military experts to see anything of his uniform, or to suggest if this photo could really be of a man who died in 1891 aged 46.
Apologies for the length of the post.....
Thanks,
Deirdre
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Even enhanced you wouldn't be able to positively identify his Regt. as all there is are the collar dogs.
However the basic shape looks very similar to the 24th's.
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Thanks Jim, i appreciate it's asking a lot (and obviously even the actual newspaper wouldn't show any more), but this man has been such an enigma that any info is appreciated.
Finding it hard to believe that as a private in the 1870s he would have had a photo taken (and that his descendants would still have it almost 40 years later). On the other hand, why lie and have him added to the article?
Added: are you able to see enough to suggest when the photo might have been taken?
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It was very common for soldiers to have a photo taken. They were very cheap in the 1870's when I suspect this was taken.
To date it accurately we would need to see the original card.
You notice in this he has a full head of hair, a large wave on the top, this was a typical style of the 70's.
Difficult to give an age but possibly 30's.
I also suspect he was with Chelmford's column rather than involved in the battle as he would have been unlikely to have survived.
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I agree with Jim, this man doesn't look 47 years old.
This is as clear as I can make them I'm afraid
Pat
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One on his own
Pat
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Thanks Jim, that seems to suggest then that the photo is of a man who could have been with the 2nd Warwicks at Isandlwana (Walter was born in 1845 so would have been in his mid 30s).
Shame that there is no army record of him at all, the mystery deepens 🙄
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Pat, those are amazing from what you had to work with. Thanks so much :)
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Excuse the ignorance, but if he was a groom in the army (he was recorded as a groom or coachman or ostler from 1878* onwards), would he have had a uniform and a rank?
* i know isandlwana was in 1879 but we have a son's birth certificate from December 1878 (admittedly under a false name) where he was a coachman.
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Every man in the Army had a uniform.
The 24th. were Infantry so only had horses for transport & Officers.
A serving soldier wouldn't list himself as coachman, ostler or groom as these were civvy occupations, his occupation was a soldier & would put that, sometimes with rank & Regt.
I'm trying to come up with why he listed himself with a civvy occupation on one of the births (can't remember which). One possibility is that he had served his term by that time & was in reserve & was called back.
A reservist would go back to civilian life but could be recalled at anytime.
I believe after the Cardwell reforms (1870) a soldier could enlist for 6 years under the Colours & the other 6 in the Reserves.
It's possible his Batt. wasn't up to strength at the time.
Edit:
Based on his pension details (if that's what it was I was looking at on your other post) a quick calculation gives an attestation date of Oct. 1872. He did 6y 5d which is what his pension is calculated against bringing him up to Oct. 1878 when he went into the reserves. So in Dec. 1878 he would have had a civilian occupation. Any event (BMD) from Oct. 1872-Oct.1878 will show him as a soldier.
He then did 1y 250d after being recalled.
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Based on computer modeling..I got these results...
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Thanks so much Jim, this is all really helpful and explains a lot. The previous posts are rather confusing, as they were 'works in progress' at the time.
If it helps, this is the situation as it stands...
Walter Robert Leigh, born 21 Jan 1845 in Southwark, Surrey. Mother died in June 1845, father in March 1851. Walter living with (unmarried) step-mother in North Cray, Kent, and as a boarder, working in a paper mill in St Mary Cray, Kent in 1861.
Crucially he cannot be (or hasn't yet been) found in 1871, and, apart from his marriage and eldest child's birth certs, there is no record of a Walter Leigh/Lee or Packman being in the army, other than the army discharge (Walter Packman), attached.
Walter's sister Elizabeth Caroline Leigh married Henry Packman in 1864; the Packman family emigrated to Australia between 1872 and 1875.
Walter's marriage, death and burial are in red, the children's births between 1877 and 1880 in black, and the 1881 and 1891 census details - where the family is recorded as Packman - in blue. Baptisms of all the children were in Brecon, parents Walter and Mary Ann Leigh.
31 Oct 1876: Walter married Mary Ann Thomas. Walter: age 26 (should be 31), private 24th of foot, Barracks Road, Brecon (certificate)
22 Mar 1877: Walter Roberts Leigh born at Mount Street, Brecknock to Walter Robert Leigh, private 24th foot, and Mary Ann Leigh, formerly Thomas. Informant: W R Leigh, father, Barracks, Brecknock (certificate).
28 Dec 1878: John Richard Packman born at Rhosfach, Blaenporth, Llandygwydd to Walter Robert Packman, coachman, and Mary Ann Packman, formerly Thomas. Informant: M A Packman, mother (certificate)
31 Dec 1880: Thomas Henry Leigh born at Mount Street, Brecknock to Walter Robert Leigh, groom (domestic) and Mary Ann Leigh, formerly Thomas. Informant: M A Leigh, mother (certificate)
3 April 1881 (census): 8 Mount Street, Brecknock, Walter R Packman, age 32, born Alton, Kent, coachman (dom), married to Mary A Packman. Children: Walter R Packman (4), John R Packman (2), Thomas H Packman (4 months)
5 Apr 1891 (census): 27 Struet, Brecon. Walter Packman, age 40, born Foots Cray, Kent, groom, married to Mary A Packman. Children: Walter Packman (14), John Packman (12), Harry Packman (10), plus Elizabeth Packman, Charles Packman (6) and Albert Packman (2)
14 Jun 1891: Walter Robert Leigh died at 2 Aberfan Road, Merthyr Tydfil. Ostler in a coalmine. Cause: pneumonia 7 days; Informant: Sarah Ann Williams, occupier, present at death, 2 Aberfan Road (certificate).
17 Jun 1891: Walter Robert Leigh buried in Brecon (burial ground of St John and St Marys)
Again, many thanks for all your help and advice on this Jim, much appreciated.
The photos are brilliant too loord, many thanks.
Deirdre
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So the only question mark is why he changed his name. One possibility is that he wanted to hide the fact that he was a reservist. May be he didn't want to do the training required or get called back & was happy to forego the pittance that he would have been paid.
Having been found out under the name Packman they had him back using that & he kept it afterwards for pension purposes.
By the time Thomas Henry was born he was out so he didn't have to use the name Packman anymore.
Could be wrong of course.
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Well until today, we were doubtful that he was ever in the army, and certainly not at Isandlwana given the children's births (would he not have been abroad for several years at a time... did they get home leave?). But the photo and story seems to be genuine enough.
We certainly assumed that he was trying to hide from something (had no idea about reservists), though it still seems strange to use the false name on the later census.
Will still hope to find the actual newspaper and see if the copy is any better.
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You need to find out when the 2/2 went overseas.
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OK thanks Jim, it's been an interesting day :)
Deirdre
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Hello, It is unfortunate that a copy is poor quality. My try - free drawing, but this is not a restoration.
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Eglejok that is amazing, thanks.
Until 4 days ago we had no idea what he - or my husband's great grandfather, bottom right - looked like, so even the poor quality copy was great, but that picture is brilliant (i can't wait to show my husband).
Thanks again,
Deirdre
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Have finally found out the movements of the 2/24th :)
Jan 1873 to Dec 1873 Warley, Essex
Dec 1873 to June 1875 Aldershot
June 1875 to June 1877 Dover, Kent
June 1877 to Jan 1878 Chatham, Kent
March 1878 to March 1879 South Africa
Given the above and the fact that their base was at Brecon, he could presumably have been there at various times to meet Mary Ann, get her pregnant (summer 1876), marry her (Oct 1876), and register the birth of the first child (born 22 March 1877, registered 9 April 1877).
Sometime during the following year he then went missing but was caught, and got Mary Ann pregnant with the 2nd child (around March 1878) before being sent to South Africa (March 1878).
The birth of the 2nd child around 65 miles away from Brecon in Cardiganshire on 28 December 1878 was registered by Mary Ann on 8 Feb 1879, as John Richard Packman, father Walter Robert Packman, coachman. However, it appears likely that the birth date was false as well as the name... his baptism record says DOB 12 Dec 1879, the 1939 register says 12 Dec 1880, so I'm inclined to think that his actual DOB was 12 Dec 1878 but changed to avoid a fine for late registration (8 Feb 1879 being 6 weeks to the day after 28 Dec 1878).
This all ties in with Walter being in the UK until March 1878 when the 2/24th went to South Africa, so he could well have been at Isandlwana (with Chelmsford), returning home afterwards and being discharged (as an invalid) in June 1880.
Presumably he used the name Packman in the 1881 and 1891 censuses to keep his pension, despite registering all the later children as Leigh, and having them all - including John Richard Packman - baptised as Leigh. Strangely, Walter was baptised himself in 1884 (aged 39), though he had already been baptised - twice - as a child.
We still have the puzzle as to where he was from 1861 (Kent) until 1876 (Brecon) and how the two join up. Are there any records not online that might help us further?
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You could try Cityark. They have various church records where you can find births, baptisms marriages and burials.
I found a lot of my family on that site.
Kessanah
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Hi Kesannah, what is cityark, not heard of it before.
It's only where Walter was in 1871 that i'm missing now really, plus joining up kent to brecon and anything more to suggest he was in the army.
I have his birth, marriage and death certificates, records of his 3 baptisms 🙄, plus burial 😀