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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Inverness => Topic started by: GR67 on Thursday 30 June 16 08:58 BST (UK)
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Greetings from Australia,
I am interested in information on the following three people:
BIRTH RECORD
Elspeth CUMMING (also spelt Elizabeth)
• born circa 1798, at Cromdale, Morayshire [1851 Census]
• mother Ann MACKINTOSH
• father Alex CUMMING (listed on marriage certificate as "Elspeth Cumming, illegitimate daughter of Alex Cumming")
• married 1816 (registered Duthil and Rothiemurchus)
BIRTH, DEATH, BURIAL & RESIDENCE
Alex CUMMING
• reputed father of Elspeth CUMMING
• listed as “Tachman of Docharn” on Elspeth’s marriage certificate in 1816
• listed as “Manager of Woods” and “Army Pensioner” on Elspeth’s death certificate in 1885
I have found a listing for “Capt. Alex. Cumming of Docharn” in the 1816 “Prize Essays and transactions of the Highland Society of Scotland, and have been able to locate Docharn on the 1843-1882 Survey maps.
Ann MACKINTOSH
• mother of Elspeth CUMMING
• listed as “domestic servant” on Elspeth’s death certificate 1885
I have been unable to find records for either Alex or Ann death, and for Elspeth’s birth.
Any assistance would be gratefully appreciated.
Rose
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There's an Alex Cumming listed on the Waterloo Medal Roll in 1815, he's a Ensign in the 42nd regiment of foot, "Captain Murdoch Maclaine's Company".
Also a record on the National Archives site - http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13329837
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Freecen 1841 & 1851 Parish of Dores, Duthil and Rothiemurchus, address Docharn have a Mary Cumming, born Duthil c1774, widow, as head of the household. In the 1851 it states that she was farming 60 acres and had 7 servants. I wonder if she was Alexander's wife.
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Scotlands People have a Mary Cumming born 1774 dying in Duthil in 1868. Likely to be her.
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There is a grave in Duthil churchyard (funnily enough my 4XG grandparents, William and Anne Grant, are there too) listed in Alison Mitchell's Pre-1855 Speyside Gravestones as follows:
Capt Alex Cumming, Docharn 12. 1826, 74, W Mary Grant d Docharn 4.12.1868
Her entries are only edited versions. If you put up a separate post for a monumental inscription someone may well have a photo and/or complete text.
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There's an Alex Cumming listed on the Waterloo Medal Roll in 1815, he's a Ensign in the 42nd regiment of foot, "Captain Murdoch Maclaine's Company".
Also a record on the National Archives site - http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13329837
Thanks miriamkinga for the reference - another place to search!
Unfortunately this Alex Cumming was 27 years of age in 1819, therefore not 'my' Alex.
Still looking for a Captain Alex Cumming though!
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Freecen 1841 & 1851 Parish of Dores, Duthil and Rothiemurchus, address Docharn have a Mary Cumming, born Duthil c1774, widow, as head of the household. In the 1851 it states that she was farming 60 acres and had 7 servants. I wonder if she was Alexander's wife.
Scotlands People have a Mary Cumming born 1774 dying in Duthil in 1868. Likely to be her.
There is a grave in Duthil churchyard (funnily enough my 4XG grandparents, William and Anne Grant, are there too) listed in Alison Mitchell's Pre-1855 Speyside Gravestones as follows:
Capt Alex Cumming, Docharn 12. 1826, 74, W Mary Grant d Docharn 4.12.1868
Her entries are only edited versions. If you put up a separate post for a monumental inscription someone may well have a photo and/or complete text.
THANKs J11,
I'm pretty sure that this Alex Cumming (Capt) is my 5th Great Grandfather, and I will follow up on the Duthil churchyard.
I know that in Scotland, 'Patrick' and 'Peter' were interchangeable names, but I am unsure as to whether 'Mary' and 'Ann' were (I doubt it)?
So my ancestor ELSPETH CUMMING's mother was definitely ANN MACKINTOSH.
I'm not sure how illegitimacy was recorded,... in Scotland. My research in other countries has shown that the name of the father of an illegitimate child is not recorded anywhere. However on both ELSPETH marriage and death certificates she is noted as being the "illegimate duagther of Alex Cumming" and "Alex Cumming reputed father". That it was know that he was dead when she died, and that she called her 2nd born son Alexander, suggests that there was an 'amicable' relationship with him.
It does look like Mary was Alex Cumming of Docharn's wife, from her death certificate, so I'm not sure what that means for Elspeth or Ann Mackintosh?
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You need Ghostwhisperer on this site to have a look for the Duthil grave. She came up with a photo of my Grants for me so may have the whole churchyard photographed. Someone of Alexander Cumming's background may well have quite a detailed stone, e.g. parentage, military service, etc. As a rough rule, the higher up the social scale the more elaborate the stone - chiselling cost money!
I've sent you a p.m.
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I know Mary Grant, Alexander's wife, will only be of passing interest as she is not a blood relative but I came across a mention in a book "The Chiefs of Grant" by William Fraser, vol 1, published Edinburgh 1883 in the section on cadet families of the Grants of Grant. Discussing the Grants of Kinchirdie, in particular Captain John Grant, his known children are listed. These include "Mary Grant, who married Alexander Cumming, Docharn, no issue." If that is correct, then Alexander had no legitimate children as she died after him, unless he was married before.
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Thanks J11.
All related info is useful as it helps to complete the picture.
Rose
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Rose (I think this is your name). My sister and I are in Australia. What area are you? These are our ancestors too. We have been there and stayed in Docharn, a farm. Alexander was the tenant farmer and Commissioner of Woods and Forests for the Earl of Seafield. He was also Adjutant at Fort George, north of Inverness. His grave is in Duthil Cemetery as you say and his wife was Mary Grant. From your notes you are descended from Alexander Fraser, son of Patrick and Elspet. They are buried in Doune Cemetery Macduff. Our great grandmother was Rachel Fraser, she and her brother came to Melbourne in the Minerva from Banff in 1853. I don't know how we get in touch. Will await your reply.
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My sister and I are in Australia.
What area are you?
These are our ancestors too.
I don't know how we get in touch. Will await your reply.
Welcome to Rootschat :)
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Hi Pauline,
I am in Australia too.
Rachel was my Great Great Great Gradmother (via Nellie Duthoit).
I would like to make contact with you, via PM would be best,so if you can post two more responses below this, as per the administrators comment above, then we can PM.
Regards,
Rose
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Rose (I think this is your name). My sister and I are in Australia. What area are you? I don't know how we get in touch. Will await your reply.
Hi Pauline,
Thanks for writing. I have responded above - still getting used to forum responses.
Regards,
Rose
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Our grandmother is Elsie Cumming Duncan.. I have Marj Howarth's book
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Our grandmother is Elsie Cumming Duncan.. I have Marj Howarth's book
Hi Pauline, if you post one more message here, I can then send you a personal message on this forum and we can then exchange personal email addresses and chat at length. I am travelling to scotland in the near future,...
Kind regards, Rose
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Make sure you allow plenty of time to search the Fraser and Duncan areas!
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I have sent you a PM Pauline. I look forward to chatting in detail.
Rose