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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: maryanne on Wednesday 29 June 16 22:19 BST (UK)
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Sometime ago I found emigration details of Ellen J Whale nee Banfield born 1888 in Cornwall,emigrating to Canada in 1925. Today I found that she had a son born in Canada in 1910. (She must have returned to Cornwall for a visit in 1925.) and I also found that she was in the Canadian 1911 census and that she had a son born in 1910 in Canada.
Ellen and her husband Charles Whale's address was 619,Dupont Street in 1910 when their 1st son was born and they had 2 other sons but one was born in 1913 and died in 1913.
Ellen and Charles appear in a later census but I don't have an ancestry subscription to see that information.
Will it be possible for someone to find a death of Ellen and maybe an obituary?
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Hi,
I think this is the family in 1921 Canadian census.
West York, Ontario, 750 Runnymede Rd.
Whale, Chas. Henry, age 34, b. England, labourer, year immigrated 1906
Whale, Ellen, age 33, b. England, year immigrated 1906
Whale, Horace, age 10, student (transcribed as age 16)
Whale, Stanley, age 6, (also transcribed as age 16)
Cheers,
DB
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UK Return passenger list showed Ellen with the 2 boys - Ellen Jane Whale aged 30 years, Horace aged 9 years and Stanley aged 5 years. Arriving Southampton 8 December 1921 - on the Corsican - Going to Treswithian Downs Cornwall. Intended furture residence England.
Sandra
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Canada Voters List 1935 York West Ontario - shows Charles Whale (labourer) Mrs Charles Whale, Horace Whale (CPR Employee) Stanley Whale (labourer)
Sandra
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Canada Voters List 1945 - Charles Whale (labourer) Mrs Charles Whale, Stanley Whale (truck driver) and Mrs Stanley Whale. - 3 Royal Ave York West Ont.
In 1949 Charles and Ellen still at the same address - Charles Whale (Canada Packers) Ellen Whale
Canada Voters List 1957 - 1 Royal Ave - Charles Whale (retired) and Ellen Whale.
Sandra
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Canada Voters List 1940 shows Horace Whale (Canada Packers) and Mrs Horace Whale (hairdresser) living at 54 Castleton Avenue. York. Ont.
Canada Voters List 1959 shows Horace Whale (truck driver) Mrs Dorothy Whale (hairdresser) and a Mrs K Simon (widow - listed twice ???) all at 54 Castleton Avenue York Ont.
Canada Voters List 1958 - Horace Whale (contractor) Mrs Dorothy Whale (hairdresser) Jack Whale (hairdresser) and Mrs Kirtsia Simon
Canada Voters List 1963 - Charles Henrey Whale (retired) Charles H Whale (unemployed) Mrs Dorothy Whale (hairdresser) Jack Whale (hairdresser)
Canada Voters List 1965/68 - Horace Whale (maintenance) Dorothy Whale (hairdresser) and Mrs Kerista Simon (widow)
Canada Voters List 1965 - Jack Whale (hairdresser) at 1 Royal Avenue
Canada Voters List 1968 - Jack Whale (hairdreser) and Sharon Whale - 1 Royal Avenue York.
Canada Voters List 1972 - Charles Whale (maintenance) Dorothy Whale and Kirastea Simon (retired)
Canada Voters List 1972 - Jack Whale (carpeting) and Sharon - 1 Royal Ave
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Canada Voters List 1949 - Stanley Whale (labourer) Mrs G H Whale (wife) 27 French Avenue.York.
Canada Voters List 1957 - Stanley Whale (machine operator) and Gertrude Whale 27 French Avenue York.
Canada Voters List 1963 - Gertrude Whale (widow) 27 French Avenue.
Stanley passed away sometime between 1957 - 1963
Sandra
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Excellent Sandra ;D Maybe RK (newspaper sleuth) will poke her head in. Although she may
be away as it is a long weekend, Friday is Canada Day....yay Canada. ;D
I am not seeing them on passenger lists between 1906 and 1910. ???
Cheers,
DB
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Hi,
You may have this already, but just in case. I just noticed on the 1911 census, Charles and
Ellen are living with William and Annie Hosgoode at 619 Dupont St.
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=49903
There is a marriage in 1908 in York for William Jas. Hosgood, age 24, father Thomas, mother
Mary Ann Quick to Elizabeth Ann Whale, age 27, father Thomas, mother Mary Ruby. A witness is Charles Henry Whale, which places him in Toronto in 1908.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hws/
Cheers.
DB
Added: William and Elizabeth Hosgood both died in Michigan. From Find A Grave, Deepdale
Memorial Park Cemetery, Eaton County, Michigan
William b. 1884 d. 1967, Elizabeth b. 1878 d. 1960
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hwt/
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A US Border crossing for Charles Whale born 1911 Toronto - Port of arrival Niagara Falls, New York June 1933 - accompanied by friend Dorothy Simon - depature contact Tom Whale. Oh dear - marked "Abusive"
Sandra
Been baking all afternoon - hope these are ok - enjoy - have sent something to wash them down with ;)
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Thanks for all this information :) It is such a lot in a short time.
UK Return passenger list showed Ellen with the 2 boys - Ellen Jane Whale aged 30 years, Horace aged 9 years and Stanley aged 5 years. Arriving Southampton 8 December 1921 - on the Corsican - Going to Treswithian Downs Cornwall. Intended furture residence England.
Sandra
Treswithian Downs is where he father was living.
Why did she put that intended residence was England if she continued to live in Canada?
Ellen's brother died in Cornwall in July 1923.
A US Border crossing for Charles Whale born 1911 Toronto - Port of arrival Niagara Falls, New York June 1933 - accompanied by friend Dorothy Simon - depature contact Tom Whale. Oh dear - marked "Abusive"
Sandra
I wonder who he was 'abusive' to.
By the way Sandra, the cake was delicious. I may take another if you don't mind.
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Awww....thanks Sandra. I also found the perfect glass for sipping my moose too.
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Looks like a yummy Canada Day feast.. would love some of those cuppies right now.
Will have a check for obits later today... at the cottage expecting guests any minute now. :) Flag is proudly waving in the wind.
Will let you know if I find anything :) :)
RK
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Hi,
"Why did she put that intended residence was England if she continued to live in Canada?"
On the section where "intended residence" is, the lines are very narrow, and it would be
possible to mark the wrong section quite easily, or just a change of heart.
I wonder who he was 'abusive' to.
It would have been to the USA Customs and Border Control person as it was written by them
on his card.
Cheers,
DB
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RK...excellent and you didn't miss out on Sandra's yummy cuppies before Maryanne and I ate
them all. ;D
Flag waving proudly here too. ;D Have a good one RK.
Cheers,
DB
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Hi Maryanne,
I just found out that in honour of Canada Day, Ancestry is giving free access to Canadian records
from now till July 2.
I posted it here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=751284.msg5995688
Cheers,
DB
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Thanks for the Canada link.
The 1911 census says that she immigrated in 1906 and the 1921 says 1906.
If she emigrated for Cornwall to Canada in 1906 she wouldn't have been married and would have been a Banfield. Ellen married Charles January 1910 in the Redruth District Cornwall.UK.
I presume that is was an error on her part.
Wimbledon has Eugenie Bouchard beating Britain’s Jo Konta.
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Hi,
Horace Charles Whale died at the Toronto General Hospital on April 16, 1987. Husband of Dorothy Whale. Father of Jack and his wife S (same as on the voters' lists), and F and his wife R. Grandfather of 8 and great grandfather of 4 (names not given). Interment Prospect Cemetery.
Toronto Star, April 18 1987, page C8.
RK
PS - looks like Eugenie won :)
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Stanley Whale died at the Humber Memorial Hospital on Feb 6 1963. He lived at 27 French Avenue, Toronto. Husband of Gertrude McKimmie. Father of J (Mrs R Taylor). Grandfather of B and K. Son of Charles Whale and brother of Horace. Member of Fairbank Lodge A.F and A.M. and Kingsway Shrine Club. Interment Sanctuary Park Cemetery.
Toronto Star Feb 7 1963, page 30.
RK
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Jack Whale's obit in the Toronto Star on June 28 1991, page C8. He died at the Humber Memorial Hospital on June 26 1991. Husband of S. Father of D and her husband M Bucciachia, K and J. Son of Dorothy and the late Horace Whale. Brother of F and his wife R. Interment Beechwood Cemetery.
RK
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Horace's wife Dorothy died Feb 17 1998. Interment Prospect Cemetery
RK
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Looks like Ellen's death is still to be found. I have gone to Find A Grave and checked cemeteries around York-Humber but no luck so far. Anyone found Charles Henry? Maybe RK might find them.
The last date I found Charles and Ellen together on An***try Voters Lists is 1957. Living on Royal Street
Lilybell ??? ???
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Not seeing Charles H and Ellen yet... will keep looking though
RK
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Charles is listed in his son's obit in 1963, but Ellen is not. So, she died between 1957 and 1963.
Still not seeing them :'(
RK
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Canada Voters List 1940 shows Horace Whale (Canada Packers) and Mrs Horace Whale (hairdresser) living at 54 Castleton Avenue. York. Ont.
Canada Voters List 1959 shows Horace Whale (truck driver) Mrs Dorothy Whale (hairdresser) and a Mrs K Simon (widow - listed twice ???) all at 54 Castleton Avenue York Ont.
Canada Voters List 1958 - Horace Whale (contractor) Mrs Dorothy Whale (hairdresser) Jack Whale (hairdresser) and Mrs Kirtsia Simon
Canada Voters List 1963 - Charles Henrey Whale (retired) Charles H Whale (unemployed) Mrs Dorothy Whale (hairdresser) Jack Whale (hairdresser)
Canada Voters List 1965/68 - Horace Whale (maintenance) Dorothy Whale (hairdresser) and Mrs Kerista Simon (widow)
Canada Voters List 1965 - Jack Whale (hairdresser) at 1 Royal Avenue
Canada Voters List 1968 - Jack Whale (hairdreser) and Sharon Whale - 1 Royal Avenue York.
Canada Voters List 1972 - Charles Whale (maintenance) Dorothy Whale and Kirastea Simon (retired)
Canada Voters List 1972 - Jack Whale (carpeting) and Sharon - 1 Royal Ave
Yes, I think that's right RK. Well done with those obits. Charles Henry Whales is with his son in 1963 - last sighting. Ellen may have passed on 1957 - 1963
1965 by the time Jack Whale moves in to 1 Royal Street which was Charles and Ellen's address.
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Thank-you so much for this information :)
I have looked at Find a Grave but no luck there in finding Ellen.
A few years ago I had the same problem with a finding an obit for someone in another branch of my tree..
She also lived in Ontario and died in 1951. Her grave was on Find a Grave.
Elizabeth J Beare Collins lived in the Kirkland Lake Timiskaming District Ontario Canada area and I think that it was possible that the those months were missingfrom the papers. Maybe that is what happened with Ellen Whale or maybe they didn't have an obit for her.
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Pretty sure, Run Kitty (the obituary expert) will check out Elizabeth J Beare Collins for you. RK is very generous with her time, trawling newspapers.
Sandra
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Pretty sure, Run Kitty (the obituary expert) will check out Elizabeth J Beare Collins for you. RK is very generous with her time, trawling newspapers.
Sandra
I know this is off topic but I wonder if Elizabeth and her husband can be found in the 1921 census.
Elizabeth J was born in Cornwall.Uk in 1872/1873 and her husband Thomas H Collins abt 1872/1875, also Cornwall,UK.
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54 Cobalt St Cobalt Temiskaming Ontario 1921
Thomas Collins 46 Imm 1898. Occupation Tombermer - looks like Timber man on the image.
Elizabeth Collins 46 Imm 1898.
Ruth Collins 20 Born 1901 USA
Harold Collins 17 Born USA
Pearl Collins 10 Born USA
William Ryan 2 Born USA Nephew. Imm 1921.
Sandra
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Rockland, Ontonagon, Michigan 1910
Thomas Collins 36 Imm 1896. Copper Miner.
Elizabeth Collins 35 Married 12 years.
Ruth Collins 9 Born Michigan.
Harold Collins 6 Born Michigan.
Pearl Collins 7 months. Born Michigan.
Sandra
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You have this but it will help RK to see the year of passing for Thomas (1959) as well as Elizabeth (1951)
FIND A GRAVE
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=146518187&PIpi=121391157
Sandra
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You may have this but again if you haven't got obituaries, it might help RK find some for you
Pearl Collins married Floyd Clayton Donaldson - according to anc tree Floyd passed away 24 August 1970 - City of Toronto, Ontario, Canada and Pearl Donaldson - 1990 - Sarnia, Lambton Co., Ontario.
A son Reginald Allan Donaldson - 1934–2000
born 9 May 1934 - Cobalt, Timiskaming Dist., Ontario and passed away 18 June 2000 - City of Toronto, Ontario.
Sandra
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Ruth Collins - married Allen Roy Bilborough - Ruth born APpril1900 - Calumet Twp., Houghton Co., Michigan - passed away 1978 - Sarnia, Lambton Co., Ontario, Canada. Allen Roy Bilborough -
1969 - Sarnia, Lambton Co., Ontario. (no sources)
Sandra
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Ruth Bilborough - 1901 - 1978
Resurrection & Crematorium / Grandview Memorial, Section: Christus Garden
1885 London Line , Sarnia, Sarnia Township (Concession 6, Lot 12)
Lambton County, Ontario.
http://geneofun.on.ca/names/photo/493522
Allen R Bilborough
http://geneofun.on.ca/names/photo/493521
http://www.findagrave.com/index.html
Sandra
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Thanks for the information Sandra.
I had the spouses of Elizabeth's children but hadn't looked at the tree for quite a while and just got interested because of the Canadian 1921 census.
Hadn't seen the grave of Ruth before.
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Hello Maryanne,
Looks like you are having a productive day. If you are interested in following up on the Cobalt and Kirkland Lake connections, you may wish to contact or visit the website of the Temiskaming Genealogy Group at: http://www.nt.net/~timetrav/index.html . This group also accepts queries.
The movement of your ancestors through the mining towns of Cobalt and Kirkland Lake opens the door to the fascinating history of Northern Ontario. This huge area was essentially wilderness until the provincial government decided to push a development railway, the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario Railway, through to James Bay at the beginning of the 20th century. In the process, silver was discovered at Cobalt and sparked a lively mining rush. Prospectors followed the railroad north and combed the wilderness, resulting in the discovery of gold in Kirkland Lake and other mineral discoveries. The rest, as they say, is history. My ancestors from Northeast England followed a similar path, first to Cobalt and later onward to Kirkland Lake, which is my home town.
Sandra's suggestion that the Thomas Collin's occupation in 1921 was listed as "timber man" actually matches up with his mining background. A timberman was an individual who cut, installed and maintained the timber supports and framing in the underground mine operation, usually as part of a timber crew.
Cheers! And Happy Canada Day!
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You may have this but again if you haven't got obituaries, it might help RK find some for you
Pearl Collins married Floyd Clayton Donaldson - according to anc tree Floyd passed away 24 August 1970 - City of Toronto, Ontario, Canada and Pearl Donaldson - 1990 - Sarnia, Lambton Co., Ontario.
A son Reginald Allan Donaldson - 1934–2000
born 9 May 1934 - Cobalt, Timiskaming Dist., Ontario and passed away 18 June 2000 - City of Toronto, Ontario.
Sandra
Obit for Floyd Donaldson is in the Star on Aug 25 1970, page 28. Floyd died at his residence (22 30th Street) on Aug 24 1970. Husband of Emily McLennan, father of Robert Charles of Sarnia, Reginald A of Toronto. Mentions a step daughter, and Floyd's 2 sisters. Interment Glendale Memorial Gardens.
So, if Pearl died in 1990, there must have been a divorce.
RK
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Reg Donaldson obit in the Star 19 june 2000, page B6. He died on Jun 18 2000, aged 66. Husband of D Brisbois. Father of M and his wife D, and J Locke and her husband J. 4 grandchildren named. Remembered by J - mother of his 2 children. Brother of Robert.
RK
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Robert C Donaldson tombstone in Sarnia. Died 2002
http://geneofun.on.ca/names/photo/1494156?PHPSESSID=438cf8acdb0d624e3eee47b2d5906fd0
RK
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Great stuff RK - given the poster much more info
Sandra ;)
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Thanks everyone for the Collins information :)
Hello Maryanne,
Looks like you are having a productive day. If you are interested in following up on the Cobalt and Kirkland Lake connections, you may wish to contact or visit the website of the Temiskaming Genealogy Group at: http://www.nt.net/~timetrav/index.html . This group also accepts queries.
Cheers! And Happy Canada Day!
Thanks for the info. I contacted a Temiskaming website a few years ago regarding Elizabeth Collins death and they kindly tried to find her obit but were unable to.
RunKitty-Can a Canadian divorce be found online? I had someone in another branch that lived in the US and I found his divorce online and the reason for it.
Still haven't found Ellen Whale's obit.
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Hi,
Re: a divorce... when divorce was more of an unusual occurrence, the newspaper used to print a list of divorces granted that week. Doesn't happen now... would take up a lot of paper!!
Here is some information about divorce in Canada prior to 1968:
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/vital-statistics-births-marriages-deaths/Pages/marriages-divorces.aspx
Finding divorce records in Ontario:
http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/en/access/documents/research_guide_210_divorce_files_in_ontario.pdf
RK
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54 Cobalt St Cobalt Temiskaming Ontario 1921
Thomas Collins 46 Imm 1898. Occupation Tombermer - looks like Timber man on the image.
Elizabeth Collins 46 Imm 1898.
Ruth Collins 20 Born 1901 USA
Harold Collins 17 Born USA
Pearl Collins 10 Born USA
William Ryan 2 Born USA Nephew. Imm 1921.
Sandra
It has only now dawned on me that the nephew with Elizabeth Collins would have been a son of Elizabeth's sister Ethel (nee Beare) and Edwin/Edward Ryan who were living in Ohio. I wonder why he was in Canada and who he travelled with to Canada.
Has William Ryan any immigration details?
In the US 1920 census William born in Indiana was divorced and living with his parents at East 19th Street Indiana Marion Indianapolis Ward 9 Cleveland. I couldn't find a marriage for him.
His mother is another obituary that I can't find.
Hi,
Re: a divorce... when divorce was more of an unusual occurrence, the newspaper used to print a list of divorces granted that week. Doesn't happen now... would take up a lot of paper!!
Here is some information about divorce in Canada prior to 1968:
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/vital-statistics-births-marriages-deaths/Pages/marriages-divorces.aspx
Finding divorce records in Ontario:
http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/en/access/documents/research_guide_210_divorce_files_in_ontario.pdf
RK
Thanks for those links RunKitty.
Added:There is about Ethel Beare Ryan on Rootschat if someone could link it. Thanks
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=607542.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=607780.0
http://www.sf.genealogy.com/forum/regional/states/topics/oh/cuyahoga/2558/
Sandra
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The son William Thomas Ryan born 1 June 1919 Indianapolis, Indiana passed away 22 Jan 2004
Edwin D Ryan - Mother Ethel Baer (as transcribed) -
Last Residence 31093 Warner Robins, Houston, Georgia.
Listed on the daily times obituary index -
RYAN, William T Sr - 84 years Indianapolis IN>Warner Robins GA - Macon T; 2004-1-24; hzfc
http://obits.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/obit.cgi?Surname=RYAN%2C%20William%20T%20Sr&type=Keyword
Wonder if Ethel passed away in Georgia.
Sandra
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If we had the exact birth date for Ethel nee Beare Ryan, it might help ?
Sandra
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Looks like you have the obit for William Thomas Ryan
http://www.genealogy.com/forum/regional/states/topics/oh/cuyahoga/2559/
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/macon/obituary-preview.aspx?n=william-t-ryan&pid=1837953&referrer=1040
Sandra
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Thanks for putting the links *Sandra*.
If we had the exact birth date for Ethel nee Beare Ryan, it might help ?
Sandra
It is possible that Ethel was born Jan 1886. Edwin Ryan was her 2nd husband.
Did Ethel travel with her son when he visited Canada and when did he return?
Still hunting for and not finding Ellen Whale
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Birth date for Ethel needs to be exact to try and find a match on the USA SSDI.
There was no definite border crossing to show William or his parents - there were loads of places where they could cross the border and not all were recorded unfortunately.
Could try the RAOGK volunteer in Winnipeg
http://www.raogk.org/lookups/region/manitoba/
Sandra
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Birth date for Ethel needs to be exact to try and find a match on the USA SSDI
Sandra
Cornwall OPC has Ethel born on the 14th January 1886 and baptised on the 12 May 1886.
Added:An old post has an Ethel in the Ohio death index 1970 with a birth year of 1886 dying in the same hospital as an Edwin Ryan. Cuyahoga,Ohio.
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Yes, I was puzzled, wondering if you had discounted that one for some reason ???
Sandra
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Yes, I was puzzled, wondering if you had discounted that one for some reason ???
Sandra
I was hoping to find an obituary for that Ethel Ryan to make sure that she was the person that I was looking for. There aren't any parents on the marriage certificate for Ethel and Edwin Ryan.
The only link that I have with the Ohio Ethel is that she married Edwin in Houston,Texas and was a Beare. (surname spelt differently on certificate) My Ethel was divorced from Thomas Yelland and was living in Houston Texas during her divorce. That is where the divorce papers were sent to.
Added: Findmypast has an Ethel Ryan birth 1886 death 23 July 1970. May be somebody can find an obit around that date.
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Prior to 1976, Cleveland Public Library clipped death notices from the local newspapers and maintained a file of notices known as the Cleveland Necrology File. The Library later converted this file to a full-text database, which can be accessed free-of-charge by anyone with Internet access: The Cleveland Necrology File. The database permits searching by name (last name/first name or last name only) or by keyword. Using the keyword search, you can search for combinations of names and words (such as addresses or funeral home names) that may have appeared in a death notice.
To determine if an obituary article (news obituary) on the person you are researching appeared in the newspaper prior to 1976, please email the Library’s Center for Local & Global History at clgh@cpl.org for additional research. Provide the full name of the deceased and birth and death dates (or years) as known.
Since that obituary/death notice was not published on the index, it doesn't look as if there was a death notice.
Sandra
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Thanks for the information *Sandra*.
It seems that I won't be finding Ellen J Whale's death date or notice in Canada or Ethel in the USA.
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Never say never. It might be worth writing an email to the clgh@cpl.org - nothing ventured - nothing gained.
Sandra ;)
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Never say never. It might be worth writing an email to the clgh@cpl.org - nothing ventured - nothing gained.
Sandra ;)
I shall send an email because as you say - nothing ventured-nothing gained.
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Sad to say clgh@cpl.org did not find any death record for Ellen :'(
Sandra
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Toronto Referance Library found nothing after 1957 for Ellen so she must have died that year or shortly after. I have checked so many cemeteries for that area but no luck there either.
Will try one more thing maybe that will be the lucky break.
Lilybell
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Toronto Referance Library found nothing after 1957 for Ellen so she must have died that year or shortly after. I have checked so many cemeteries for that area but no luck there either.
Will try one more thing maybe that will be the lucky break.
Lilybell
Thanks for your reply lilybell.
I am still hitting brick walls.
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Hello if you go to www.serviceontario.ca and download form 11075 you can get a 5 year search done
for Ellen. The cost is $15.00 Canadian. I think this is your best bet for finding her. I would search for 1957-1961.. Good luck in your search.
Lilybell
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Thanks for the link lilybell.
I shall take a look.
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Really strange we cannot locate anything on Ellen in York Humber after 1957 - have you made any further progress on this one ?
Sandra
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I haven't found anything else about Ellen so she will have to one of many in various trees put on the backburner for the time.