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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: suehiggi on Wednesday 29 June 16 07:21 BST (UK)
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Hello can anyone help with tracing my Great Grandmother's father. She was Ellen Keneally on her marriage certificate to a Thomas Sangster in 1883 at Christchurch Marylebone and I have that certificate. Her father is given as Patrick Kenealy and the witnesses were what looks like W Murphy and Bridget Clark. Her fathers occupation was a Plasterer. I found an 1881 census for a Patrick Keneally with a daughter Hanora who could be Ellen as she changed her first name. The address for that is 37 Horace street Marylebone and Patrick is listed as being born in Ireland along with his wife Caroline. I have all the information to the present day but would like to be able to go back and find out more about Patrick or Caroline but can find no more census entries or a marriage for them. If anyone could help it would be fantastic. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it made sense.
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Hello can anyone help with tracing my Great Grandmother's father. She was Ellen Keneally on her marriage certificate to a Thomas Sangster in 1883 at Christchurch Marylebone and I have that certificate. Her father is given as Patrick Kenealy and the witnesses were what looks like W Murphy and Bridget Clark. Her fathers occupation was a Plasterer.
Her father's occupation is labourer on the marriage certificate . It is Thomas Sangster senior who is a plasterer.
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Hi, Welcome to Rootschat
I think it highly unlikely that a 10yr old Hanora in 1881 could marry as Ellen in 1883.
What are the ages and addresses for couple given on marriage cert?
Have you found them on any other census
Edit: Ellen gives birthdate of 1865/66 in 1891/1901
Cas
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I have found Ellen and Thimas on the 1891, 1901 and 1911 census. In 1891 Ellen's age was 25 born Marylebone and the address was 16 Nightingale street. The marriage certificate says Thomas was 20 living in East Street and Ellen was 19 from Capland Street. The marriage was Oct 21 1883 at Christchurch Marylebone. Have been unable to trace Ellen or her Father on any earlier census. In the family the notion is an Irish connection but we don't know how far back.
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Strangely - living in Marylebone in 1871 are a Patsy Kenealy, aged 46 - a male! Labourer, born Ireland - with a wife Ellen aged 38 born Cork and 2 daughters, Ann 12 born Bengal and Mary 3 born Marylebone.
I know this isn't the right family - but with the surname and the location being the same, I am wondering if there is a connection.
Have you found the births of any of those children on the 1881 census? It might be worth sending for a birth certificate. I am wondering if Caroline was maybe a second wife or partner.
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There's a marriage in 1889 of a John Kenealy, 26, son of Patrick, a bricklayer. His address is 26 Nightingale St
Also in 1888 a Timothy Kennealy, 24 (widower) son of Patrick, a labourer. address 8 Highworth St.
This might be interesting from 1871 - address Barretts Court
Phillip Kennelly 45 - bricklayer's labourer b Limerick
Margaret Kennelly 40 - b Limerick
Mary Kennelly 15 - b Marylebone
Timothy Kennelly 9 - b Marylebone
Ellen Kennelly 7 b Marylebone
RG10, 163, 53, 37
margaret is on 1881 & 1891, a widow, in Marylebone. 1881 has a 17 yr old Honora with her - but still there in 1891 as Nora
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This family really are elusive. As you have the marriage certificate -- are any of the witnesses from the Keneally family?
There is a birth registration for an Ellen Kenealy Q/E March 1866 Holborn Reg Dist.
I wonder if it would be worth obtaining that just to confirm or eliminate that birth 'from enquiries'.
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Thank you. I will send for the birth certificate an hope the fathers name comes back as Patrick. It really is quite a pickle tracing them on any other census!
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The John who marries in 1889 looks like he may have been registered as John Kannaly Q1 1863 in Marylebone. 1881 he might be in the army - can;t find him elsewhere.
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I am pleased you are sending for the birth cert - it's what I would do. However I appreciate there is always the risk that it's not the correct one. If it is the correct one, it will be interesting to see who the mother is - just in case it's not Caroline.
I cannot see a marriage for a Patrick to a Caroline in the London area or in Ireland at the moment.
Another possibility is that Patrick married twice (or obtained a partner) - and Ellen may be the daughter of his wife/partner - but Ellen would still regard him as her father. I'm jumping ahead though. There are a couple of marriages in the 1840s in the London area of a Patrick Keneally (or variant) - to an Honora - but they may be rather early. I am just speculating on possibilities.
In my experience with my own Irish families -- they never seem to know how old they are! My Irish Gt Grandparents birth years varied considerably from census to census - that, together with the variant surname spellings do make for a challenge.
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There's a marriage in 1889 of a John Kenealy, 26, son of Patrick, a bricklayer. His address is 26 Nightingale St
Also in 1888 a Timothy Kennealy, 24 (widower) son of Patrick, a labourer. address 8 Highworth St.
This might be interesting from 1871 - address Barretts Court
Phillip Kennelly 45 - bricklayer's labourer b Limerick
Margaret Kennelly 40 - b Limerick
Mary Kennelly 15 - b Marylebone
Timothy Kennelly 9 - b Marylebone
Ellen Kennelly 7 b Marylebone
RG10, 163, 53, 37
margaret is on 1881 & 1891, a widow, in Marylebone. 1881 has a 17 yr old Honora with her - but still there in 1891 as Nora
Difficult family to trace! I wonder if there are 2 families with Patrick AKA Phillip being Michael's brother. Both marrying a Margaret.
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1881 Ancestry
Does this look like it could be the same family as the 1871 with parents Phillip and Marg*?
Timoty (sic) Runnesly (parents Patrick and Marg*)
142/37/46
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1871 Ancestry:
Honore Conelly (parents Michael and Marg*)
159/71/40
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An Ann Norah KENEALY (born 1865 father:Michael) marries John TOMPKINS July 13 1884 Maida Hill.
The witnesses are Thomas and Ellen SANGSTER.
Maureen
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An Ann Norah KENEALY (born 1865 father:Michael) marries John TOMPKINS July 13 1884 Maida Hill.
The witnesses are Thomas and Ellen SANGSTER.
Thats definately the Ellen I am looking for, so if she was a witness to Ann Norah Kenealy's marriage then maybe Ann is a sister? confuding though because Ann's father is Michael and Ellen's father is definately Patrick on her own marriage certificate. Is the fathers name likely to be wrong on a marriage certificate. I also note that Thomas and Ellen lived at 16 Nightingale street in 1891 and
'There's a marriage in 1889 of a John Kenealy, 26, son of Patrick, a bricklayer. His address is 26 Nightingale St'
could john also be a sibling as they are in the same street?
Perhapes i should look for a group of siblings including Ellen, John and Ann Norah in Marylebone area.
I'm starting to think that Caroline as Patrick's wife is wrong because I only have that from a possible census and that could be the wrong Patrick. I dont have a mothers name for sure.
I have found out that their is a family connection rumoured to Jospeh O'Sullivan who assassinated Field Marshal Sir Henry Wilson in 1922.O'Sullivan's mother was Mary Ann O'Sullivan (née Murphy) and one of the witnessess to Ellen's marriage is a W or M Murphy. Could that be a route to find out more I wonder?
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John and Norah Tompkins are in Marylebone in 1901 (and probably 1891 on a badly damaged section). She's b c1865 in Marylebone. she's also on 1911, but she's lost a few years!
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my grandmother was Elizabeth Kennealy living in Marylebone 1901 aged18 father Timothy 38.step mum Catherine (Hall) 31. elizabeths sister Margret 10.Timothy went to Canada and had 3 more kids with Catherine one of the girls was called Nora 10yo sister Mary 8yo brother Edward 14yo, also in the same year in Marylebone was Patrick Kennealy aged 12 and Kathleen 10 born in Canada ,my grandmother told a story of being made in Ireland born in England emigrating to canada coming home and staying in England,but her family went back,Elizabeth was born in 1884( married John Barry aged 21,)Good luck with your search.
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There's a marriage in 1889 of a John Kenealy, 26, son of Patrick, a bricklayer. His address is 26 Nightingale St
Also in 1888 a Timothy Kennealy, 24 (widower) son of Patrick, a labourer. address 8 Highworth St.
Timothy married Catherine Hall in 1888 my nan Elizabeth his daughter was 4 yo ,added by royfamily,
This might be interesting from 1871 - address Barretts Court
Phillip Kennelly 45 - bricklayer's labourer b Limerick
Margaret Kennelly 40 - b Limerick
Mary Kennelly 15 - b Marylebone
Timothy Kennelly 9 - b Marylebone
Ellen Kennelly 7 b Marylebone
RG10, 163, 53, 37
margaret is on 1881 & 1891, a widow, in Marylebone. 1881 has a 17 yr old Honora with her - but still there in 1891 as Nora
Difficult family to trace! I wonder if there are 2 families with Patrick AKA Phillip being Michael's brother. Both marrying a Margaret.
....
1881 Ancestry
Does this look like it could be the same family as the 1871 with parents Phillip and Marg*?
Timoty (sic) Runnesly (parents Patrick and Marg*)
142/37/46
.....
1871 Ancestry:
Honore Conelly (parents Michael and Marg*)
159/71/40
....
An Ann Norah KENEALY (born 1865 father:Michael) marries John TOMPKINS July 13 1884 Maida Hill.
The witnesses are Thomas and Ellen SANGSTER.
Maureen