RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Somerset Lookup Requests => Somerset => England => Somerset Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Jan Ann on Thursday 21 July 05 19:45 BST (UK)
-
Hi there
I am having trouble placing my Great Great Grandad James Rampling b abt 1822.
My later Ramplings are all from Lancashire, and I think it may be James that moved there from Somerset.
I have the following from the 1861-1891 Census
This James is a real problem. I have not been able properly to place him. I can't help thinking that he had something to hide.
1861C gives his birthplace as Lawtham NBL
1871C gives his birthplace as Lothbury MDX
1881C gives his birthplace as A-i-M.
1891C gives his birthplace as Somerset!!
It is clear that his son Joseph, by his first wife, was born in Somerset (Shepton Mallet BMD 1846 q4 Shepton Mallet 10,442).
His first wife (Ann) died 1872 (BMD 1872 q4 Wigan 8c,66 "age 55") and he married Sarah Ann Houlton (1872 q4 Wigan 8c,131).
Another member has suggested that he may be a 'returnee' - a convict that returned and moved to a different county to start a new life.
I'd appreciate it if someone could look James, his wife Ann and son Joseph in the 1851 census, and search for him further in the 1841 census.
Regards
Jan
-
Hi Jan. By what I can see I fear you have your work cut out for you with this one. So many diff POB. What a nightmare. There is no sign of him. Not only is there no sign of him in Somerset but the name does not appear to be a Somerset name. I can find no Rampling's or anything like it anywhere in Somerset in 1851. In 1841 in all of Somerset all I can see is a 6 year old girl Frances Rampling living with Thomas and Ann Hodge. Sorry.....Kris :'(
-
Hi Krisesjoint
I know its a nightmare - I have found the following, with help from Rootschat member Judee
Convicts Ship St George - arrived in NZ in 1842
Rampling James Sentence 15y Age 17 Trial held Ipswich assizes Crime stabbing with intent to disable
aka [HAMPLING];
Apprentice; re-trained as a tailor; alternative age given as 12 (possibly age at trial); listed as having been neglected
If this is my James - it seems he may be from Norfolk!
The plot thickens!
-
Ohh Thats fascinating....interesting to note the name certainly appears to be more likely a Suffolk, Essex or Norfolk name. In 1841 Ramplin//Rampling we have
none is Norfolk
in Suffolk
age 15 Hadleigh
age 12 Hadleigh
age 20 Lavenham
age 14 Whatfield
in Essex
age 14 Stanway
age 15 Grays Thurrock
Kris ???
-
Hi Kris
Thanks for your help! I thought the one in Lavenham could be him at first, as he gave his place of birth as Lawtham (Northumberland - is there such a place?) in the 1861 census and this could be a poor attempt to disguise it! but it doesnt really fit in with his age when he was a convict - again this might not be him - just a hunch! His first wife Ann gives her place of birth as London(?)
I'll keep searching!
Best wishes
Jan
-
OK Jan. I have been looking though these chaps and nothing stands out. All the younger ones are living with family. I wonder about the neglect but he could be living with the family and still be neglected. The 20 year old is married wife Mary and Dau Mary and listing as 20 he could be up to 24 so I don't think he is yours. The 15 year old in Essex is not with family Lab Chalk Worker. I haven't tried Hambling yet. Will try that.....Kris ;)
-
Jan just a thought can you give me his childrens names in case I can spot anything, though if he was neglected would he be likely to name children after the family. Still these boys had siblings (If there was neglect he was possibly close to his siblings) You never know especially if there happen to be any uncommon names....Kris
-
now with Hamblin/Hambling/Hambling we have
Somerset
age 11 Kilmersdon
age 14 East Coker
Suffolk
age 12 St Andrew Iketshall
age 15 Bungay Holy Trinity
-
hi Once Again Kris
In 1861
James Rampling Head M 40 Northumberland Lawtham
Ann Wife M 42 Dressmaker London
Joseph Son 14 Bricklayer's labourer Lancashire Shepton Mallet
Matilda daur 9 Scholar " Ashton in Makerfield
In 1881
James Aged 60(!) SHOP KEEPER - all born in Ashton In - M
Sarah Wife aged 29 HOUSE KEEPER
JAMESAged 6
William Aged 4
In 1891 Sarah Wife M 39 Lancs Haydock
James Son S 16 Bricksetter Lancs Ashton in Makerfield
Joseph " 14 Fishmonger " "
Thomas " 9 months " "
James Jnrs Family were
Wife Jane Pimblett
Elizabeth daur 6
James Son 4
Annie daur 2
Gladys daur 4 months
Another 7 Children followed after the census – but all I know for sure is my grandma Edith b 1906
Cheers
Jan
-
mmm with Matilda born in Lancs age 9 in 1861 I would have to suspect they may be there in 1851 census......There are no Hamplings showing. (Sorry mucked up before they are Hambling -silly me) None of these boys have a Matilda in there family unfortunately either. 14 in Whatfield is a bit strange He has brother William 15 him then NK 7 and NK 1 Parent John 35 ag lab and Jane 35 all born Suffolk. Seems a bit odd....Though one of the others has a brother Josh......Sorry I just don't think we are going to have any luck here no matter what we try......Kris :'(
-
Ohheee Just noticed the second wifes age...Quite an age difference there! Jan I am starting to wonder if this convict may be just a coincidence and may not your man at all!
My reasons
Age...Yours appears to be a few years older by these census records. Your man seems very consistant 40 in 1861, 50 in 1871, 60 in 1881
Occ....Convict retrained as Tailor so why is yours not a tailor...surely this man would not be labouring on the roads in 1861 if he was a tailor! (Though I see he does later become a shopkeeper)
Sentence..... 15 years in 1842 yet back in Somerset married and having a child by 1846
Kris :-\
-
Hi Jan
Found this marriage on FreeBMD site........could be your James?
James Rampling Dec 1/4 1840 District Lexden County Essex Vol 12 P285
There is an Anne Taylor also on the page
Juddee
-
Jan just been playing about a bit more and reading about the Parkhurst boys. (Fascinating)
I found this article on the convict
April 14th 1839
James Rampling aged 12 years was charged with entering the home of William Albury at Sudbury and stabbing and cutting him.
15 years transportation.
I have also noticed that a James Rampling married in Aukland 17 dec 1850 to Eliza Williamson. (Submitted entry) but I feel of interest that the convict was transported to Aukland in 1842 so would again have to wonder (1 Dau listed in 1851).........Now also since these Parkhurst Boys were transported from Parkhurst Prison IOW I presume that is where this particular boy can be found in 1841 census......Kris :D
-
aha ....
baptisms
RAMPLING Joseph 25 oct 1846 baptism 31 jan 1847 Ashton in Mackerfield Lancs
Parents James Rampling and Anne
RAMPLING Sarah Matilda 17 Dec 1851 baptism 11 Jan 1852 Ashton in Mackerfield Lancs
Parents James Rampling and Anne Mar 1/4 1851 Wigan 8c 93
RAMPLING James 7 aug 1874 baptism 20 Sep 1874 Ashton in Mackerfield Lancs
Parents James Rampling and Sarah Sep 1/4 1874 Wigan 8c 152
RAMPLIN Joseph William 1 Aug 1876 Baptism 10 Sep 1876 Ashton in Mackerfield Lancs
Parents James Rampling and Sarah Sep 1/4 1876 Wigan 8c 148
Unfortunately the marriages are not listed but it appears Joseph was also born in Lancs not Somerset or was certainly baptised there. One thing I guess is you now know they are in A i M for 1851 census ;D ......Kris ;D
-
Hi Kris & Judee
Thanks for all your help on this matter! Maybe, James wasnt a convict afterall! Maybe the census people misread his submitted forms or his writing was really bad!
This certainly has been very interesting! Keep Seaching!
Best wishes
Jan
-
Hello,
I am not certain how this site works but hopefully your lister "krisesjoint" can help me with the "Parkhurst Boy" details posted on 22/07/2005.
My interest is that I am researching a Ph D at Southampton University here in the UK and my major initial project is try and create Biographies for each of the 4,088 juvenile convicts who passed through Parkhurst Prison over the period 1838-64.....James Rampling was transported from Parkhurst to NZ aboard the "St George"in 1842. I have quite a substantial amount of detail up to approximately 1844 but am very interested in the information posted about his marriage/children.
Could you please contact me using either MODERATOR COMMENT: email address removed to avoid spam. Please use personal message system to share email addresses. Thank You. if that is at all possible...I do hope so.
Regards
Tony Cocks
-
Hi Tony
As you can see from previous comments below
- Jan just been playing about a bit more and reading about the Parkhurst boys. (Fascinating)
I found this article on the convict
April 14th 1839
James Rampling aged 12 years was charged with entering the home of William Albury at Sudbury and stabbing and cutting him.
15 years transportation.
I have also noticed that a James Rampling married in Aukland 17 dec 1850 to Eliza Williamson. (Submitted entry) but I feel of interest that the convict was transported to Aukland in 1842 so would again have to wonder (1 Dau listed in 1851).........Now also since these Parkhurst Boys were transported from Parkhurst Prison IOW I presume that is where this particular boy can be found in 1841 census......Kris :D
it wasnt me that posted the information on his marriage! If you click on the icon near kris's name you will be able to send them a personal message - I have no doubt krisesjoint will help as much as possible -a very generous and well informed member of Rootschat!
Have fun searching and please do contact this board again if you are having difficulty.
Cheers
Jan :)
-
Hi Tony,
Welcome to Rootschat. Sorry I did missed this yesterday. I am afraid I can be of little help unfortunately. All I found were submitted entries on IGI on James Rampling.
James Rampling=Eliza Wilkinson 17 Dec 1850 Aukland NZ
Susannah Rampling born 11 Nov 1851 Aukland NZ Parents James Rampling and Eliza Wilkinson
a second entry Susanna Rampling 17 Dec 1851 Aukland NZ Parents James Rampling and Eliza Jane so I would presume she was Eliza Jane Wilkinson
I am in Australia and you really need someone in NZ to help with this. I wonder if somebody on the NZ board may be able to confirm this or provide you with anything further. This was all I found on IGI
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,299.0.html
I did read a lot about the Parkhurst boys when I was working on this lookup, and James's crime and Transportation details. A fascinating subject. All the best with your project. You certainly have an interesting one. I hope someone on the NZ board can help. Take note that I did discover an older James Rampling died in Aukland. I did a bit of a check on him and discovered he had a son James, in Sydney but this James Came from Australia to Aukland and his son married in Australia twice so I really think the one I found has to be the Parkhusrt Boy but of course no guarantees........Kind Regards.....Kris :D
-
Hi
I have quite a bit of info for William Rampling Born 1824 , and everyone down his line up to me
so sure if we can connect trees, but have a look our tree is on Geni.com
Please if you have any info that might be useful to me let me know
Thanks
-
Hello Melanie,
My interest in James RAMPLING, born 1827 Ipswich, is that he was one of the 4,000"Parkhurst Boys" I am researching for a PhD and not part of a family tree in that sense. However, I am more than happy to let you have the information that I have gathered and possibly you can add to the detail.
You will need to send me a Personal Message with your email address and to help in that regard I have sent you mine.
For the moment,
Tony Cocks
-
Hi Melanie/Tony/All
This is a very old thread! Had to read it all again to get my head around it all ;D
I have since this was first posted discovered that my 3 x great grandfather was James Rampling born c1791 in Chelsworth, Suffolk - he is a Waterloo Veteran and his army career is why there was a plethora of place names for his offspring! His Army history obtained from the regimental museum, Lichfield as follows.
1811-1813 Sevingapatan (India) 1813-1817 Quilon, South India 1817-1818 Chatham 1818 Colchester 1818-1819 Hull 1819 Glasgow 1819-1820 Aberdeen 1821 Gibraltar 1822-1828 Malta 1828-1830 Corfu 1830-1831 Cephalonia 1831-1832 Lancashire 1832 Dublin 1832-1833 Belfast 1833-1834 Co. Kildare
I nailed my 2 x great grandfather (also James) as being born Shepton Mallet, Somerset, this also being the birthplace of his mother Ann Marchant and her family. The family then moved to Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire once he retired from the Army he became a pub landlord and coincidentally died in Wigan on the same street where i now work :o
Melanie, welcome to Rootschat ;) - I think we have been in touch before and I dont think we could find a connection.
Best of luck to all
Cheers
Jan :-* :-* :-*
-
Hello Jan,
James RAMPLING, the Parkhurst Boy transported to NZ, was born in September 1825, the son of James and Sarah RAMPLING. The father was himself born in 1793 at Long Malford in Suffolk and was a Bootmaker. Towards the end of his life, when he became a widower, he moved to Lambeth in Surrey.
From what I can gather there were 5 children, 2 sisters older than James, and 2 younger brothers, one of whom, Henry, was transported aboard the "Woodbridge" to NSW in 1839.
Hopefully this confirms your belief that there is no connection with your 3 x Great Grandfather and the Parkhurst Boy.
For the moment,
Tony
-
Hi Tony,
I am descended from Henry Rampling (convict) per Woodbridge to NSW Australia, but I also have info on the James Rampling & Eliza Jane Williamson married in NZ. I came across this family through posts on Roots Chat and the existence of letters between James and his father and Siblings in England. I would be willing to assist with info that I hold, but my question is how do you know there is a connection between this James and my Henry? I am certain of my connection to Henry the Woodbridge convict, but no documents in Australia that I have accessed detail whom his parents or siblings were. Therefore , although I have collected info on James and Eliza and the letters mention a brother Henry in Australia, there was more than one Henry Rampling here.
Regardless your undertaking of biographies for all those Parkhurst boys is huge and I am impressed!
I will send a personal message also.
Julie
Australia
-
Hi Kris & Judee
Thanks for all your help on this matter! Maybe, James wasnt a convict afterall! Maybe the census people misread his submitted forms or his writing was really bad!
This certainly has been very interesting! Keep Searching!
Best wishes
Jan
If you contact a Robyn Dixon in Australia she may be able to help,I am the Grandson of Albert Edward Rampling from St Osyth Essex .and am trying to fill in my tree as well-would be good to get more info if you can assit,Albert,s father was William Rampling
regs Tony