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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: pwh on Monday 20 June 16 23:34 BST (UK)

Title: Grace Campbells children
Post by: pwh on Monday 20 June 16 23:34 BST (UK)
Grace Rintel married Major John Campbell in Perth on 23/3/1911. Her mother Bertha nee
Waterman died in 1927. Her funeral notice said she was the mother of Grace and grandmother
of  Bertie. If anyone knows more about  Graces children I would be most grateful.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                            Thanks
                                                                                                         PWH
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: sparrett on Monday 20 June 16 23:53 BST (UK)
This person?

Electoral Roll 1913 WA
CAMPBELL, John Francis.  Royal Mint. Deputy Master. East Perth
CAMPBELL,Grace Phyllis Mary. Royal Mint. East Perth

Sue
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: pwh on Tuesday 21 June 16 00:24 BST (UK)
Unfortunately no. Major Campbell was still alive in 1913. But you have pointed  me in the right
direction.
                  Thanks
                             PWH
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: majm on Tuesday 21 June 16 00:27 BST (UK)
RINTEL  On November 26, 1927, at Fremantle, Bertha, relict of the late Simeon Rintel, of Perth, and dearly loved mother of Grace (Mrs A G Campbell, Fremantle)  and grandmother of XXXX (New Norcia,) aged 66 years.

RINTEL  On November 26, 1927, at Fremantle, Bertha Rintel, beloved sister of Alfred Watermann and Mrs W G Greenwell (Victoria Park)  and Mrs C Celle (Italy), aged 66 years.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/32067888

JM
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: Neil Todd on Tuesday 21 June 16 00:33 BST (UK)
The WA birth indexes go through to 1932 but unfortunately are not parent searchable? There is a birth in 1931 of a Grace CAMPBELL but no way of knowing just whose child it is.
http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/
Do you know when either John or Grace died the death notices for them may be more informative.

Neil
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: Neil Todd on Tuesday 21 June 16 00:46 BST (UK)
Is this the same family? ::)

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/37983281?searchTerm=%22Major%20John%20Campbell%22&searchLimits=l-state=Western+Australia


Neil
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: CassT on Tuesday 21 June 16 00:58 BST (UK)
Hi Simeon Rintel Funeral Notice  Sunday Times Perth 12.1.1919.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/57999185?searchTerm="bertha rintel"&searchLimits=l-state=Western+Australia|||l-category=Family+Notices

regards

Cass
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: majm on Tuesday 21 June 16 00:59 BST (UK)

Lt Col Joseph CAMPBELL
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=606990.0

Major John CAMPBELL
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=606859.0


PLUS
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=606161.0

Peter, perhaps you could consider asking our Moderator to merge this current thread with the above thread where you ask similar question in your opening post.

JM
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: rosball on Tuesday 21 June 16 01:05 BST (UK)
Marriage description
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article38826396

regards
   Ros
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: rosball on Tuesday 21 June 16 01:12 BST (UK)
Death of Rosantha CAMPBELL - wife of colonel JA CAMPBELL with S Rintel as a pallbearer

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article212593504

Ros

adding : obit to Major J Campbell with B Rintal as a mourner
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article82561882
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: majm on Tuesday 21 June 16 01:39 BST (UK)
I am sure that the grandchild is female.
.......
adding : obit to Major J Campbell with B Rintal as a mourner
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article82561882

The chief mourners were Mrs. G. Campbell (widow), Miss XXXXX Campbell (daughter)

Possible birth of the grandchild

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/44876772 1 August 1913

I am not typing up the grandchild's given name, Peter has not confirmed that he already knows that the grandchild, born 1913, is no longer living.   I have several living relatives who are older than 102 years of age.  They expect their privacy to be respected.

JM
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: majm on Tuesday 21 June 16 01:44 BST (UK)
Information given to me about the Rintel line of my family had led me to believe that of the 8 children of Rabbi Moses Rintel and
Elvina Hart only Walter had  left a continuing family line. Entries in  Western Australian newspapers on the the Trove site showed this to be incorrect. Walters brother Simeon married Bertha Waterman in Victoria 17/1/1886. They had a daughter, Grace in
Victoria in 1887 before moving to Western Australia. By trawling through the Trove site i have been able to track them to a limited
extent. Grace attended the Wickllyffe Ladies Collage in 1901. On  23/3/1911 she married Major Jock Campbell. Her mother died
on 26/11/1927 aged 66. Her funeral notice said she was the mother of Grace and  grandmother of Bertie. I have not been able to discover if Bertie had any children. Rintel is not a common name in Australia so i would hope that someone can fill in some of
the gaps or may even be connected to them. Either way i would be grateful to hear from them.

                                                                                                                                               Thanks
                                                                                                                                                          pwh           

Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: Essie on Tuesday 21 June 16 01:55 BST (UK)
Only the one daughter when Gracie died in 1946.

The West Australian (Perth, WA : 1879 - 1954)  Saturday 2 February 1946  p 1 Family Notices
CAMPBELL - On February 1, 1946 ... , at Perth, Gracie, widow of the late Major Jack Campbell, late Merriwa street, Nedlands, loved mother ...
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=%22CAMPBELL%22&l-state=Western+Australia&l-decade=194&l-year=1946&l-category=Family+Notices&l-month=2


Essie
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: Essie on Tuesday 21 June 16 02:07 BST (UK)
Bertha aka Bertie CAMPBELL m. 1937 to John J HOGAN
Reg. Perth 1494

HOGAN—CAMPBELL Wedding. The West Australian (Perth, WA : 1879 - 1954)  Wednesday 25 August 1937  p 4 Article...
THE marriage was solemnised at St. Mary's Cathedral, Perth, on August 21 ... Campbell, only child of the late Major Jack Campbell and Mrs. G. Campbell, of Perth. .............

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=%22CAMPBELL%22&l-state=Western+Australia&l-decade=193&l-year=1937

Essie
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: cando on Tuesday 21 June 16 03:23 BST (UK)
Australian Electoral Roll
WA 1943
HOGAN Bertha 27 Merriwa Street, Hollywood  HD
HOGAN John  27 Merriwa Street, Hollywood  RAAF

WA
1949
HOGAN Bertha 27 Merriwa Street, Hollywood  HD
HOGAN John  27 Merriwa Street, Hollywood  Meteorologist

http://www.eoas.info/biogs/P003260b.htm

1941 - 1945  Career position - Meteorologist with the RAAF Meteorological Service

John Hogan worked for the Bureau of Meteorology for 44 years (1914-1959), and was Deputy Director in Melbourne, 1946-1948 and Sydney, 1948-1959. He contributed greatly to the knowledge of atmospheric processes in the Australian region and to the improvement of the quality of meteorological services to the community. While Director in Sydney he spent a considerable amount of time in the Melbourne office as Acting Assistant Director (Administration) and Chief Scientific Officer. In the summer of 1922-1923 Hogan became the first Bureau officer to serve on Willis Island. From December 1963 to June 1964 he was employed as Bureau's External Relations Officer. In 1969 Hogan was contracted to prepare some historical notes relating to the Bureau and its officers, which later appeared in Metarch.

Death
HOGAN John
Father Joseph Patrick  Mother Charlotte CAMPBELL
At Kew 73 years 1970  Reg#13856


Cando
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: rosball on Tuesday 21 June 16 03:52 BST (UK)
A child for Bertie (nee Campbell) and Doc HOGAN in Port Morseby

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-page3716070
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: cando on Tuesday 21 June 16 03:55 BST (UK)
From 1949 John is living at the same address in NSW and Victoria with a Margaret Carolyn.  She is buried at the same location as John at the Kew Cemetery.
http://www.kewcemetery.com.au/FindGrave.aspx

HOGAN Margaret Caroline
Father Richard PEYTON  Mother Margaret O'SHAUGHNESSY
1972  76 years  Reg#1136

John being enrolled at the WA address in 1949 does not guarantee he was at that address on election day.

Now to find what happened to Bertha.

Cando
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 21 June 16 04:07 BST (UK)
EDIT
Struck through incorrect information.

At Kew Cemetery

 HOGAN, Margaret Carolyn
Date  11-Jan-1972
Aged  76
Location  SPEC D 0073
Service  Burial

At the same location-
 
26-Jun-1970
Burial HOGAN, John
Aged  73

Sue

Adding..... A bit of double-up on posts  ::)

Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: cando on Tuesday 21 June 16 04:13 BST (UK)
Need more time to research this.....according to a personal announcement, this couple appear to have married in 1924.  So have we two John HOGAN's in the RAAF who were meteorologists.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article172506429

Cando
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 21 June 16 04:18 BST (UK)
Here's a news snip about the meteorologist in  Port Moresby, March 1938.
Bit of biography too.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/167706006
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: cando on Tuesday 21 June 16 04:30 BST (UK)
John's mother - Mrs K HOGAN of Boulder. 

Australian Electoral Roll
1937
HOGAN Catherine 130 Bourke Street, Boulder  HD

Catherine may have been married to James Martin HOGAN who died in 1922.

Is this Bertha in South Australia?
Advertiser   
HOGAN   Bertha   1996   

Interment at Centennial Park - ashes- no age
http://www.centennialpark.org/memorial-search/bertha-hogan-227509/

and at the same location a John HOGAN who died in 1978 - no age
http://www.centennialpark.org/memorial-search/john-hogan-140966/

Cando
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: cando on Tuesday 21 June 16 04:33 BST (UK)
Bingo..

http://www.eoas.info/biogs/P003261b.htm

1941 - 1946  Career position - Squadron Leader with the Royal Australian Air Force (RAF)

http://trove.nla.gov.au/people/624971?c=people

Cando
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: sue21757 on Tuesday 21 June 16 04:38 BST (UK)
John Hogan died in South Australia in 1978
Bertha Hogan died in South Australia in 1996

Sorry Cando you beat me to it :)
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: cando on Tuesday 21 June 16 04:40 BST (UK)
John's WW2 service summary - identified by dob and position
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=R&veteranId=1051209

Cando
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: sue21757 on Tuesday 21 June 16 04:46 BST (UK)
John's parents travelling to Perth for the wedding.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/87297029?searchTerm=%22john%20doc%20hogan%22&searchLimits=
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: cando on Tuesday 21 June 16 04:50 BST (UK)
That is John's elder brother Dr Philip Cornelius HOGAN - on the electoral roll as GP at Boulder. The marriage announcement described John as the son of the late Mr HOGAN and Mrs K HOGAN of Boulder.

May I suggest that the link identifier is used to link items in TROVE.  Go to Details at the top left and click on the article identifier and copy and paste the link.

Cando
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: pwh on Tuesday 21 June 16 04:55 BST (UK)
majm
                  Thank you to you and all the other Rootschatters. A lot to digest.

                                                                         Regards to all
                                                                                          Peter
                                                                                         
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 21 June 16 04:56 BST (UK)
And even a nice picture of the right John HOGAN on Cando's SA link ;D
Sue
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: sue21757 on Tuesday 21 June 16 04:58 BST (UK)
Sorry Cando didn't have a good look round.
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: rosball on Tuesday 21 June 16 05:01 BST (UK)
Here is an interview with John HOGAN available on CD too.  Made in 1973 about his time as a weatherman and his time in Port Moresby

http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/archivaldocs/oh/OH561_23.pdf

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: cando on Tuesday 21 June 16 05:09 BST (UK)
majm
                  Thank you to you and all the other Rootschatters. A lot to digest.

                                                                         Regards to all
                                                                                          Peter

                                                                                         

To summarise...

Bertha married in 1937 to John Joseph HOGAN.
She died in Adelaide in 1996 and is buried with John at Centennial Park Cemetery. They were both cremated.

Cando
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: majm on Tuesday 21 June 16 05:11 BST (UK)
Well Found Cando.



JM
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: cando on Tuesday 21 June 16 05:18 BST (UK)
And this record gives Bertha's age

http://austcemindex.com/inscription?id=4466721

and John's

http://austcemindex.com/inscription?id=4466722

Cando
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: bertha13 on Sunday 31 March 19 04:21 BST (UK)
Hi
Grace campbell had one child Bertha. Bertha married John Hogan and had 4 girls of which I am the youngest.We were all born in Perth Australia. There are 3 remaining sisters.We all have children and grand children.
regards
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: pwh on Monday 01 April 19 06:04 BST (UK)
bertha13
                 We are linked  through Simeon  Rintel.  His father  Rabbi Moses  Rintel  married
into my Hart  line. He married Elvina Hart in Melbourne on the 28th of August  1849.  I dont
know how much you  know about  the Rintels of  Melbourne   or their Polish  roots.  I have
information i can share with you about that  and the Hart family  he married  into.
                                                                                                    Peter
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: bertha13 on Monday 01 April 19 07:05 BST (UK)
   I have the birth certificate of Berth Warterman on 8th 0ctober 1860. Father louis mother Grace. This was in my mothers papers. There is also a certificate Moses Rintel was a life governor of the Melbourne Hospital dated 1880 and an earlier one dated 1874.not sure if this is connected to you.
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: pwh on Monday 01 April 19 07:36 BST (UK)
bertha13
              He is certainly  the Rabbi Moses Rintel I mentioned in my post.  He  was one of the most
important figures in Australian Jewish history  in the 19th century.  Look him up on the internet,
especially on the Trove site.  I would be interested to know what is in your mothers papers,
especially if they mention the New Jerusalem settlement at  Wikippin.
                                                                                                      Peter
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: bertha13 on Monday 01 April 19 08:56 BST (UK)
My mother was Bertha Campbell, her mother was Grace Rintel married Major Johm Campbell23-3-1911.
I believe that Grace Rintels father was Simeon and her mother was Bertha
I am not sure I can tell you much more.
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: pwh on Monday 01 April 19 11:19 BST (UK)
bertha 13
               You are totally correct in your belief.  As I suspected  your knowledge  is limited.
I have done extensive research into the Rintel family in NSW, Vic, England, Scotland  and
Poland. I will certainly share that knowledge with you.
                                                                                  Peter
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: pwh on Sunday 07 April 19 04:28 BST (UK)
Bertha13
                As promised here is more information on Simeon Rintels family line. There is a very good
website to look up. The site address is https://portphillippioneersgroup.org.au/pppg5io.htm. I can
expand on the information in there. The  Sydney Hebrew Academy  referred to in the text
was the first official Jewish school in Australia. 
Simeons grand father  Meir or Myer  Rintel was probably born in or around Krakow in Poland.
His age in the 1841 UK census would make his birth year 1785. His wife Sarah  died in
Rogozen , Prussia in 1869 , aged 85. He was a Hebrew author and Talmudic scholar who
was associated with the Dukes Place Synagogue in London. He went to Edinburgh Scotand
sometime around 1820. This has been confirmed by an email from the  Jewish archives
in Glasgow. By 1843 Moses Rintel was the Reader at the Brighton Synagogue where he lived
with his mother. A scandal concerning the death of a servant girl in their house ended his time
there. During his five years in Sydney he must have prospered. The newspaper account of his arrival in Melbourne says the he had 19 packets of  furniture in the hold of the Velocity.
He married  Elvina Hart in Melbourne on the 28th of August 1849. Her family with its roots
in the east end of  London where they had slop sellers or dealers in used clothing had been
in Melbourne since 1839. Her cousin Lazarus Hart had arrived in Sydney on the convict
transport York in Feburary of 1831. Her mother , Isabella Beheliah Levy was a direct descendent
of Raphael Moses Levy , one of the most important figures in early American Jewish history.
Her father John served at Trafalgar.
To the best of my knowledge only Simeon and  Walter  had  ongoing  lines of descendants.
Simeons uncle Hyam became involved  with a man known as the Nunnawading  Messiah.
You can look these people up on the internet, especially on the Trove website of the Australian
National Library. It makes fascinating and sometimes  funny reading.
                                                                                                   
.
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: bertha13 on Sunday 07 April 19 10:03 BST (UK)
Thank You
My grandmother my mother and my sisters and I are definitely the direct descendants of Simeon.
There is certainly a lot of information to process.
Title: Re: Grace Campbells children
Post by: pwh on Monday 08 April 19 04:19 BST (UK)
bertha13
              My pleasure. In this post I will give you some of Elvinas family. Here are  Elvinas
siblings.
 Henri John Hart B 7/5/1820 New York   M Sarah Jane Rowland  (1836-1863) 21/9/1853
Philadelphia USA,  Sarah died in  Melbourne 1863. Henri died  at Garret St  Melbourne
29/4 /1884.  3 daughters, 1 son
Isabella Hart  B  New York  2/1/1827  M her cousin Edward Hart  27/3/1844 Melbourne
(first Jewish wedding in Victoria)  D 17/5/1910 Victoria  5 Daughters  3 sons
Louisa Hart  B 28/11/1829  New York M Samuel Debeer  20/12/1854  Dunedin NZ
D 19/12/1909  Melbourne  5 Daughters 2 sons.
Hyam Hart  B 25/6/1835 New York  M Ann Coxwell Forster ( 1842-1907) in Melbourne  1857
D 26/9/1876 Victoria. 5 daughters 4 sons
Rebecca Hart B 17/4/1841  London  M  Phillip Hayman  29/5/1861  Melbourne  D 22/6/1871
Birmingham England.  5 sons 1 daughter
Elizabeth Hart  B 26/4/1845 Melbourne M Joseph Fletcher Anderson  1866  Victoria  D 1897  VIC.
2 daughters
Father  John Hart  B 13/2/1789  London  D  23/1/1864  Melbourne
Elvina  Grand parents
Lazarus Hart  B  1743  D  London 20/1/1800  and  Rachel Hart, maiden name unknown, B 1752
D 17/9/1818 London. Last address  Peters Court  off  Cartwright St which ran off  Rosemary Lane,
now Royal Mint  Road.
I have much more on the Harts and their associated families.
                                                                                         Peter