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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: pjyorkie on Saturday 18 June 16 16:07 BST (UK)

Title: Alice Daniel
Post by: pjyorkie on Saturday 18 June 16 16:07 BST (UK)
Trying to find information on Alice Daniel B ab 1841 Glasgow emigrated to Australia around 1862-3 married a William Dobson would like to find any information on Alice or her parents
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: jomcd967 on Sunday 19 June 16 10:32 BST (UK)
Their marriage is available to download from here...
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj?viewSequence=200&language=en&trxId=IDX&commandAction_displayDetailsAction%3D70C1E48AE45F68C2E34EE367AAC86137
And will cost $24 and should tell you her fathers name and occupation, mothers name, where she was born and how long she has been in Australia.
Jo  :)
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: pjyorkie on Sunday 19 June 16 12:01 BST (UK)
Thanks for the information
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: rosball on Sunday 19 June 16 21:52 BST (UK)
Did Alice remarry?

Here is marriage notice of Alice DOBSON to William CALDER in 1886 saying she is daughter of late Joseph DANIEL of Dumfries Scotland.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article198052856

regards
   Ros
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 19 June 16 21:55 BST (UK)
Connected post here

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=750612.new#new
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: rosball on Sunday 19 June 16 22:03 BST (UK)
There is a will for Alice CALDER, widow who died 25 June 1893 available to download free.

http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54

regards
  Ros

also one for William CALDER, farmer who died 17 April 1892 - haven't checked if he's the husband
adding : no probably not as she says in will that William CALDER is currently of Gisonmock  ??? Scotland (and formerly of St Kilda)  and leaves estate to children Thomas and Robert DOBSON

Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 19 June 16 23:32 BST (UK)
Marriage
DANIEL, Alice born Glasgow
DOBSON, Wm born Ireland
1867
#762

Chn. born Melbourne and nth Melbourne
DOBSON, William  1868 #4281
DOBSON, Thomas Ernest 1870 # 24403
DOBSON Robert McKenzie 1873 #109 508

Marriage
CALDER William (born Glasgow)
DOBSON  Alice (born Glasgow)
Year 1886
#1315


Sue
 
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: sparrett on Monday 20 June 16 00:00 BST (UK)
Death of the William CALDER in 1892 for whom Ros mentions a will.

 

CALDER Wm
Father Unknown
Mother Mary UNKNOWN
Age 66
Death Place Gunbower
Year1892
Reg.   6540

Gunbower in in rural Vic near Echuca.

Sue

Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: cando on Monday 20 June 16 00:01 BST (UK)
Alice arrived in Dec 1861 on the OITHONA ;)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hty/


Cando
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 20 June 16 00:08 BST (UK)
In 1861 she is a servant in Govan working for the McMaster family.  Aged 20 b Glasgow

Govan ED 13 Page 20 Line 15
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: cando on Monday 20 June 16 00:18 BST (UK)
This may be the death of her first husband

DOBSON William
Father William  Mother Martha FULTON
1874  37 years  Born Tyrone  Reg#11172

Cando


Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: cando on Monday 20 June 16 00:26 BST (UK)
Death reg
CALDER Alice
Unknown
At West Melbourne  1893  Reg#7108

Cando
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: sparrett on Monday 20 June 16 02:27 BST (UK)
It is interesting in reading the documents in the Will file cited by Ros, a friend of Alice DOBSON named Eliza LANDER declares she has known Alice DOBSON intimately for years and that she has been living separately from her husband for thirty years and her estate comes from her own earnings as an office keeper.

So we see the William CALDER in Greenock, Scotland  may have been gone for a good while!
Sue 
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: cando on Monday 20 June 16 02:42 BST (UK)
It is interesting in reading the documents in the Will file cited by Ros, a friend of Alice DOBSON named Eliza LANDER declares she has known Alice DOBSON intimately for years and that she has been living separately from her husband for thirty years and her estate comes from her own earnings as an office keeper.

So we see the William CALDER in Greenock, Scotland  may have been gone for a good while!
Sue


Something not right here.  Alice married Wm CALDER in 1886 and she died in 1893.  30 years apart??  Her first husband died in 1874.

Quote
Marriage
CALDER William (born Glasgow)
DOBSON  Alice (born Glasgow)
Year 1886
#1315

Cando
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: sparrett on Monday 20 June 16 03:58 BST (UK)
Mmm.. it is strange.

Should also be noted that Eliza LANDER and her children are noted in the will insofar as should both sons of Alice CALDER be deceased by a certain date, then proceeds from the estate is to  be distributed between Eliza LANDER and her children who are named.

Among other things, the estate consisted of three nice pieces of real estate in Melbourne suburbs.

Furthermore, Eliza lived at Romsey while Alice was in Melbourne.  An intimate friendship may have been difficult given the distances involved.

To have known Alice for 30 years Eliza must have made her acquaintance shortly after Alice's arrival in Victoria (1961 per Cando) and, therefore, before either of the marriages.

Perhaps Eliza was meaning in her statement , there should be no claim on the estate from either husband, one being deceased and the other absent?? :-X ::)

Sue
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: sparrett on Monday 20 June 16 04:09 BST (UK)
On the manifest of Orhiona 1861, Alice DANIEL is a housemaid and to be engaged by Mrs A. FRASER (I think?) of St Kilda.
Sue
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: cando on Monday 20 June 16 04:30 BST (UK)
Eliza/Elizabeth LANDER nee KILPATRICK had 12 chn with her husband Wm John, at Ballan, Ballarat. Bacchus Marsh. Myrniong and Romsey between 1868 and 1886.  Margaret Jane, Bessie, May, William, Peter, James, Thomas, Richard Henry Manning, John, Richard Septimus, Ann Alice and Bessie Margaret.  Wm John and Eliza/Elizabeth married in 1863.

Cando
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: sparrett on Monday 20 June 16 04:34 BST (UK)
I suspect the surname could be LAUDER, not LANDER.
Sue

ADDING, the children to be benefitted from the will in 1901 if Alice's own sons were deceased, were the three last listed (above) of Eliza LANDER/LAUDER, namely Annie Alice, Bessie and Septimus.

Sue
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: cando on Monday 20 June 16 04:40 BST (UK)
I agree Sue.  Probably difficult for the transcribers as 'u' can often look like 'n' in that era.  Some of the writing in the registers is difficult to decipher.

Cando
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: rosball on Monday 20 June 16 04:43 BST (UK)
There are some memoriam notices for Alice from her loving friend Eliza LAUDER

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article8679462
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: cando on Monday 20 June 16 04:46 BST (UK)
Wm John LAUDER died in 1886...in memoriam notice in 1887.

I can only find a Eliza KILPATRICK 17/18 years arriving in 1860 on the MERLIN.  Born Tyrone and was assigned to Belfast to work. Port Fairy.

Wm DOBSON was from Ireland.  Possible connection :-\ :-\

Cando
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: cando on Monday 20 June 16 04:50 BST (UK)
If the OP wishes to buy an image of any certs for $AUD24
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj

Info on all Victorian Certificates.  The marriage certificate does not have the years in Australia.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: cando on Monday 20 June 16 04:57 BST (UK)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=750612.msg5987619#msg5987619
Quote
Looking for any information on joseph Daniel believed to have married mary Pollock , joseph may have been born abt 1811 ?? and he may have lived or being born in louth Lincolnshire uk.
they had a daughter Alice Daniel b= Glasgow abt 1841
pjyorkie

So the OP has a little more info.

Cando

Edit...also linked by CarolW
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: sparrett on Monday 20 June 16 04:58 BST (UK)
Here's Eliza's death anyway.


Eliza LAUDER
Age 58
Death Place Romsey, Victoria
Father KILPATRICK Wm
Mother Ann HEATHERS
Year 1898
Registration 18182

Sue
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: judb on Monday 20 June 16 05:53 BST (UK)
An on-line tree has further information about the sons mentioned in the Will - Thomas Ernest DOBSON 1870–1933 and Robert Mackenzie Daniel DOBSON 1873–1939.  There was also a son William DOBSON 1868-1886 whose death was apparently caused by a fall from a horse - he was a jockey or horse trainer.

I have not verified these dates on indexes so you would need to check them; however all of the information is from cited sources.

Judith
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: rosball on Monday 20 June 16 06:11 BST (UK)
Here's the story about death of William DOBSON in fall from horse in 1886

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article190844924

From Vic BDM
death 1886 DOBSON Wm, father Wm, mother Alice (CALDER)  reg 6997
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: sparrett on Monday 20 June 16 06:18 BST (UK)
I think William CALDER may have returned from Scotland by 1895 and then met with a fatal accident

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/197205540
 
This chap was aged 67 and of 24 Charles Street St Kilda

Here is the registration-
CALDER Wm
Father William
Mother Janet MOFFAT
Age 67
Death  St Kilda
Year 1895
Reg. 11237

Death Notice mentions "of Glasgow"
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/9372881

He left a will which is digitised and bequeaths to his children and grand children who can be traced through the Vic  Pioneer indexes.

The will mentions his first wife who was Jane nee MURDOCH.

Death
CALDER Jane
Father Murdoch Jno
Mother Margt
Age 56Y
Death Place ST KILDA
Year 1885
Reg 7020

Death Notice
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/111909430

As yet I am not completely certain he is the husband of Alice, but given a Charles street address   in connection with Alice.. I am suspecting :P

Sue
 
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: sparrett on Monday 20 June 16 06:25 BST (UK)
A great many of the CALDER Family including William and Jane are buried at St Kilda Cemetery

http://smct.org.au/deceasedsearch/

Sue
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 21 June 16 05:07 BST (UK)
Do hope pjyorkie, the OP here, has not missed the several pages of useful information provided.
Lots of questions answered in the numerous replies ;D

Sue
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: rosball on Tuesday 21 June 16 09:20 BST (UK)
Sue, pjyorkie had marked his thread as complete after the first response, but I just threw in my stuff about second marriage anyway  ;D.  And then you and others added so much more ...! 

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: Alice Daniel
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 21 June 16 12:40 BST (UK)
Sue, pjyorkie had marked his thread as complete after the first response, but I just threw in my stuff about second marriage anyway  ;D.  And then you and others added so much more ...! 

cheers,
   Ros

Yes, it is marked completed and here CaroleW, on the concurrent thread, suggests a look at this thread on the Aust board

There are 4 pages of information on your other post - have you read all the replies?

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=750572.0;topicseen

OP was online yesterday at 17:33.

I am just trying to make sure that our OP gathers all information contributed on both threads.
One never knows what will be useful in the future  when establishing a family history.
Sue