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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: JuliaP on Wednesday 15 June 16 11:58 BST (UK)
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Christina and Augustus Francis Merlet and Christina McIntosh married in Sandhurst, Australia. We know he was born in London in 1836. He died in Greytown, New Zealand on 24 September 1820 aged 84. She died somewhere mid July 1931 at " Taruna" Greytown in her 89th year.
Who were Christina's parents and family?
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The index does not show the place of the marriage. Perhaps you have the full certificate which shows it.
Providing date and registration number for the marriage.
MCINTOSH Christina
MERLET Augustus Francis
Year1863
Reg 3828
Sue
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You can purchase an image of the marriage cert for AUD$24. Christina's age, place of birth and parents names along with her father's occupation should be on the certificate.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj
Some news snips
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article202161642
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article88254949
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article142158698
Cando
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From the NZ printout of Christina’s death registration, what information was given about her parents?
From 1876 NZ death registrations have included the following details about the deceased: occupation, parental details, where born, when and where buried, marriage details, ages of children of deceased, and the length of time in NZ. Of course, the reliability of the information does depend on the informant’s own knowledge.
https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Timeline/
JM
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Christina and Augustus Francis Merlet and Christina McIntosh married in Sandhurst, Australia. We know he was born in London in 1836. He died in Greytown, New Zealand on 24 September 1820 aged 84. She died somewhere mid July 1931 at " Taruna" Greytown in her 89th year.
Who were Christina's parents and family?
Something is amiss. It is not possible to die before you are born.
JM
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I agree its confusing. Sunday when I've time off I will trawl some of the records including Trove and Papers Past. Thanks everyone
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I agree its confusing. Sunday when I've time off I will trawl some of the records including Trove and Papers Past. Thanks everyone
Your opening post definitely has that A F Merlet died in 1820, and that he was born in 1836. It is simply not possible. There is something amiss.
JM
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It was just a typo JM - he died in 1920 :)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ht7/
cheers,
Ros
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Here is an obit to Christina which gives some family info - but not her early family :(
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ht8/
regards
Ros
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It was just a typo JM - he died in 1920 :)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ht7/
cheers,
Ros
A typo ...
Now, NZ BDM has that 1920 death indexed. https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
I would expect JuliaP has that printout already. Perhaps JuliaP's confusion may be with some information on that printout or on the 1931 printout for the registration of the death of his wife, Christina.
JM
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Thankyou everyone I have ordered the relevant death certificates.
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You are free to ignore my advice :)
If you wish to have information given by Christina herself and not a third party I suggest you purchase the 1863 Victorian marriage certificate. You can purchase an image online and immediately download. The marriage certificate will have her parents' names including her mother's maiden name. The information on death certificates is only as good as the knowledge of the informant.
Information on Victorian Certificates
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
Good luck ;)
Cando
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Yes, I fully agree Cando, if this were my family I would be aiming for first hand information,
I had assumed that JuliaP already had the NZ printouts and that she was seeking information about Christina's parentage to reconcile/validate the information she had gleaned from those NZ printouts, basically to sort out the flawed 1820 death information.
JM
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Sorry I am an amateur at this I guess. Good idea getting the information at an earlier stage.
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I found out when I went online to the Victoria BMD site that Christina McIntosh was 20 at the time of her wedding in Bendigo on 19 November 1868. She was born in Skye, Scotland . Her parents were Archibald McIntosh , manager?
Her mother was Mary Mathieson ?
What do I do now?
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All information on the marriage certificate is useful. Can you please list the details here please.
"Her parents were Archibald McIntosh , manager? Her mother was Mary Mathieson ?"
Possibly a sister to your Christina?
BDM VIC Index death
1929 / 11310 McLEOD Catherine parents Archibald McINTOSH / Mary MATHIESON
died MPNA 79 years (b. ~ 1850?
marriage
1874 / 4787 MACINTOSH Catherine m. McLEOD Norman
Shepparton Advertiser 19 Aug 1929
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/186948462?
..obit for this Catherine McLEOD...
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from Cando's post
Information on Victorian Certificates
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
:) Date and place of marriage;
:) name and surnames;
:) conjugal condition, whether bachelor or spinster, widow or widower,
:) stating date of decease of former wife or husband;
:) children by each former marriage;
:) birthplace;
:) occupation;
:) age;
:) residence (present and usual);
:) parent's names of each party (including mother's maiden name) and occupation of father;
:) signatures of the parties and witnesses;
:) signature of Minister.
And another question, you mention she was 20 ... so from the marriage cert does it mention who gave permission for her to marry, as she was not yet 21 years of age ?
JM
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1851 Census
Living in at Aird, Parish of Kilmuir [on Isle of Sky], Inverness
McINTOSH Archibald 30 years Head Shepherd Born Snizort, Invernesshire [On Isle of Sky]
McINTOSH Mary 28 years Wife Born Stensholl, Invernesshire
McINTOSH Christian 9 years Dau Born Kilmuir, Invernesshire
McINTOSH Charles 6 years Son Born Kilmuir, Invernesshire
McINTOSH Ann 4 years Dau Born Kilmuir, Invernesshire
McLEOD Ann 20 years House servant Born Kilmuir, Invernsshire
And here they are arriving in Melbourne in Sep 1851
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hta/
Cando
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Another sibling
Birth
McINTOSH Mary
Father Archibald Mother Mary MATHESON
At Allan Vale 1855 Reg#5593
Cando
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And yet another it seems,
Jessie b 1858 at Great Western, VIC, died 28 June 1942 Rupanyup, VIC
Married John Henry Dyer, MLA 12 Mar 1879 Callawadda, VIC
Six children.
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Charles McIntosh, as per reply #17 m Elizabeth Brown 13 Dec 1877 at Stawell, VIC.
He died 1 March 1930 and is bur at Stawell.
He had 9 children but he appears to have daughtered out.
It should be noted that this family may have used the MacIntosh form of the name, worth keeping in mind during research.
Julia are you related to this McIntosh line?
There are at least 788 members in this particular McIntosh family ;)
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Spike are you taking this from a public tree? No sources noted and there doesn't appear to be a birth registered to Archibald and Mary in 1858. Just curious.
Cando
Edit...just found it on my resource. Surname MACINTOSH :o
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There you go.
McIntosh/MacIntosh.
1858/18287
Information is not from a public tree but from the well researched Mackintosh Families of Australia website.
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From my own resource
Death
MACINTOSH Archibald
Father Charles Mother Christina NICOLSON
At Glenorchy 62 years 1882 Reg#5593
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article138079461
The Australasian 10 Jun 1882
Deaths
MACINTOSH On 25th alt., Callawadda, Archibald Macintosh, native of Kingsborough, Isle of
Skye, Scotland, 62 years of age.
Cando
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Various Sources available at the Mackintosh Families of Australia website re Archibald MACINTOSH
• CEN 1851 SCT INV Kilmuir, (CSSCT1851-26 ED6 Sched35 fol88 p12 L7 Parish Kilmuir Parish No.112/1 [SCT1851-112] ).
• INDX VIC Assisted British Immigration 1839-1871, PRO Victoria, 5/177, 4A/357, 5A/169. Statesman
• INDX VIC Birth, Death and Marriage Indexes, 1882/5593 62y.
• DTHNOT Archibald MacIntosh d1882, (The Australasian Sketcher with Pen and Pencil (Melbourne) June 17 1882 p190).
• WILL Archibald MacIntosh d.1882.
• BK Victoria and its Metropolis: Past and Present, (1888).
• INDX VIC Assisted British Immigration 1839-1871, PRO Victoria, 5/177, 4A/357, 5A/169.
• MRGCERT Annie MacIntosh and Samuel McDonald.
• IGI International Genealogical Index, Church of Latter Day Saints, Multiple submitters eg Batch Number: A457708 Sheet 00 Source Call No: 457708-457712 Type Book.
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http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article60095800
The Illustrated Australian News 12 Apr 1879
DYER—MACINTOSH On the 12th March, at the residence of the bride's parents, Callawadda, by the Rev William Matthew, John H Dyer, of Rupanyup, to Jessie, youngest daughter of Archibald Macintosh, Duntulum, Callawadda.
Cando
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Sources for Jessie MACINTOSH
• INDX VIC Birth, Death and Marriage Indexes, 1858/18287.
• INDX VIC Birth, Death and Marriage Indexes, 1942/25818 82y.
• DTHNOT Jessie Dyer nee Macintosh d1942, (The Argus (Melbourne) June 30 1942 p2).
• MRGNOT Jessie MacIntosh and John Henry Dyer, (Illustrated Australian News (Melbourne) April 12 1879 p15).
• ROLL 1903 Electoral Roll.
• ROLL 1937 Electoral Roll.
• ROLL 1924 Electoral Roll.
• ROLL 1914 Electoral Roll.
• DTHNOT Mary Florence Camm nee Dyer d1921, (The Argus (Melbourne) October 3 1921 p1).
• WILL John Henry Dyer d1923.
• IGI International Genealogical Index, Church of Latter Day Saints, Multiple submitters eg Batch Number: A457708 Sheet 00 Source Call No: 457708-457712 Type Book.
• INDX VIC Birth, Death and Marriage Indexes, 1879/880.
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Information was submitted to this publication. I hold the publication which has been in my family since 1888.
Victoria and its Metropolis: Past and Present Published Melbourne, Nov 1888.
MACINTOSH Charles J.P Glenorchy, is a native of the Isle of Skye, Scotland, who came to this colony with his parents in 1851. He accompanied them to various gold rushes with his parents and finally removed to his present station. He owns about 12,000 sheep and has considerable tracts of land and about 4000 acres purchased at Callawadda, some few miles distant. Mr Macintosh's father, soon after arriving in this colony, took charge of a flock of sheep near Geelong and continued at that occupation, when he removed to Digger's Rest, Ballarat, Creswick and the Ovens (Beechworth), returning to Geelong and holding the position of second in command to the governor of the local gaol. He went to the Wimmera in June, 1865, took up his first selection there, and grew the first wheat in the district at Callawadda station, which is now held by his widow, Mr C Mcintosh's mother. Mr Macintosh was the first secretary of the first Selectors' and Farmers' Association in that part of the colony, formed about 1867, its headquarters being in Stawell. He has been a shire councillor and J.P since 1877, and has passed through the presidential chair, has always taken an active part in all public matters tending to the advancement of water conservations and the formation of free libraries &c., in various places.
Cando
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I am bowled over with the information.
I am not a descendant but my husband is and so are my sons
Christina . Archibald's daughter married and left for New Zealand
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Yes you mentioned Christina moving to NZ in your first post and I have given you links to information about Francis leaving Bendigo.
Passenger record of the family leaving Melbourne in 1876.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hth/
I should have mentioned that the entries to Victoria and its Metropolis: Past and Present were often written by the submitter and naturally everything was in glowing terms. I've had a few giggles reading some of the entries including one of my ancestors :-X
If you want you can search the Victorian Government Gazettes to see that both Archibald and Charles were granted land leases, leases were not paid and therefore forfeited etc etc. Similar history for many early settlers.
http://gazette.slv.vic.gov.au/
Cando
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Your help Cando has been fabulous as has everyone else's. It's amazing what information is still there.
My next plan is to try to unlock more information on my own great grandparents Donald MacDonald / McDonald and Jane Lamont. They came from Scotland via Queensland to Sandhurst ( Bendigo) where Jane died of ovarian cancer. Donald who at her death was a labourer then went on to become a wealthy landowner on the Murray. Curious to know where I should look for this information
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Who were Donald's parents?
Could we also have some dates please?
Lots of resources at the top of the board.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia-resources-offers/
Cando
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I see that Jane died in 1872 and is buried in the Bendigo Cemetery.
Do you know the dod for her husband?
Cando
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Hi Everyone,
So we are not duplicating earlier efforts about the extended family of Donald MacDonald/McDonald and Jane Lamont in Victoria, here are some threads from the Australia Board
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=574557.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=575284.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=574390.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=577659.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=616448.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=619533.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=707711.0
JM
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Yes I do have all this other information. What I'm curious to understand is where should I go to try to understand how Donald in a decade or two went from rags to riches so to speak. I want to know more about who he worked for in Sandhurst. I know he allowed a relative to care for his young daughter Annie-Jane but he brought up his son Ewen. I know this information will be difficult to find. I visited Bendigo Library and found out a little. Maybe that's where I need to go again. Thank you
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He really didn't go from rags to riches. Anyone could apply for a 640 acre 'block' when land was subdivided under the Closer Settlement Act. As Victoria recovered from the effects of the 1890's depression, the demand for farming land increased. However, most land suitable for agriculture had already been selected or was part of a large Pastoral Estate. The Victorian Government became concerned about the loss of farmers to other colonies and attempted to stem the flood of farmers from Victoria and increase the numbers of those working the land by acquiring large estates and breaking them into small farms. Many of the subdivisions had blocks which were a mile square ie 640 acres.
It would appear from Donald's probate file that he had two 640 acre blocks, one of which he was in the process of selling ie the title had not been transferred but his probate file show the purchaser owed the full amount. Both of these 'blocks' were heavily mortgaged. The home block wasn't fully cleared. So he wasn't a wealthy landowner on the Murray. The amount declared for probate was £986.6.11 which would be the balance after the mortgages had been paid.
I live on a farm which consists of 13 'blocks' which were subdivided from Crown Land around 1905. The holdings in many areas were far too small for a farmer to make a living. Many men with limited capital saw an opportunity to become farmers however they had to clear the land, build homes and sheds, sink bores and fence the properties. Many walked off their properties.
His probate file gives the title details of the two properties.
Donald did not enrol to vote.
Australian Electoral Roll
1903, 1905 Moira/Yielima
MACDONALD Ewen Yielima Farmer
Cando
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Donald was described of Narioka in his Will. He only had the land from 1901 ie if this application was successful.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article191189076
Numurkah Leader 26 Jul 1901
Revision Court at Numurkah.
Applications by Donald Macdonald, for land in Narioka ; Ewen Macdonald, for land in Yielima.
Cando
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Thanks for that. The family story was that he had been quite well off but bought another farm becoming heavily indebted then suffered 5 years of drought and lost everything before he died broken hearted . My grandfather Ewen left for NZ with the young servant ( my grandma) , a baby 2 of their racehorses and a parrot.
Thanks for giving me the historical context
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His Will only mention two properties with first and second mortgages.
Cando
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MCDONALD Donald
Gazetted 18 Jun 1875
Narioka Victoria
Victoria Government Gazette Pge#1186
Comment Gazette item sub title heading Applications for Licenses under Section 19 Approved
MCDONALD Donald
Gazetted 16 Feb 1877
Place Narioka
Victoria Government Gazette Pg#328
Comment: Notices to Lessees and Licensees in Arrears Section 19 Land Act
and again
MCDONALD Donald
Gazetted 27 Sep 1878
Place Narioka Victoria
Victoria Government Gazette Pge#2375
Comment Applications for Leases Approved
MCDONALD Donald
Gazetted 22 Aug 1879
Place Narioka
Victoria Government Gazette Pg#2093
Comment Notice to Lessees & Licensees in Arrears
Under Section 19 of the Land Act 1869 selectors could apply for a three-year licence to occupy Crown land. The rent was set at two shillings per acre and a maximum of 320 acres per selector was allowed. On application, a deposit of half a years rent was paid. If the application was refused, the deposit was refunded.
He didn't lose everything before he died. He still held the titles to two 640 acre 'blocks' albeit they were mortgaged.
Always the possibility that family stories become distorted and embellished over the years. Not unusual.
Cando
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Makes for more exciting retelling perhaps. I know however my parents were very concerned when 2 of my brothers bought a kiwifruit farm at the height of a downturn here citing the uncertainties of farming . Despite frosts and a quite crippling disease that affected their crops they have done exceedingly well. Perhaps unlike our ancestor they were not indebted and initially had other day jobs
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You all went a lot further than I've done.
It is my husband's family not mine
Thanks
Julia
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Well I have had a very interesting read this morning of all your comments and learned much about my extended MacIntosh (Highlander spelling) or McIntosh family! I googled my cousin Archibald McIntosh of Stawell, and up came all your posts! Archibald McIntosh was born in 1813 to John McIntosh and Catherine Murchieson on the Isle of Skye. He had one brother Samuel and one sister Catherine. Samuel remained a bachelor and Catherine married a John Lamont in 1848 and they had one daughter Catherine around 1849. Catherine married Allan Macleod in 1882 and they had 6 children, all born in Snizort North (Parish).
Archibald's father John McIntosh was born around 1780 to Archibald Macintosh and Catherine Nicolson on the Isle of Skye. John had 8 brothers and sisters, one of which was Marion Macintosh and she was my great great great grandmother! Most of the children were born in Snizort Parish.
John and Marion's brother Angus McIntosh followed his nephew Archibald out to the Colony of Victoria in 1853 on the NEW ZEALANDER. He and his wife, another Catherine Nicolson, had 8 children, also born in Snizort Parish.
Angus eventually settled in Branxholme, near Hamilton in Victoria. Some of the children married Mathiesons and some married Macdonalds. One married a Bethune and one married a Cotter!
In the meantime, my Marion's son, Charles Finlayson, made his way out to the Colony in 1857 on the MALDON, with his wife Marion McDougall. After working in the Geelong area for 2 years to pay off their passage out, they settled outside Ballarat in the Clunes area. They had 9 children! Charles and Marion are buried with Marion's brother Alexander in the Coghills Creek Cemetery where many many Skye people are buried. But their's is another story!
Great stuff Julia P. and Cando!!! Diane in Bendigo, formerly Sandhurst.