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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Emma08 on Saturday 11 June 16 11:31 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm not sure which board to post this on, because I'm not sure where the marriage took place. But I thought I'd start here, because I have other documents placing one spouse in the London area.
I'm trying to find a marriage between Walter Stewart and Catherine (nee Birmingham /Bermingham ) that would have happened before 1871... likely somewhere between 1861 and 1871.
I have no details at all about Walter Stewart. Not even an estimated birth date.
Catherine's father was a Walter Birmingham. Occupation: Farrier.
I don't know her birthplace, but estimated birth date is 1843.
Catherine was widowed sometime before 1871, and remarried in 1871 under "Catherine Stewart" to a William J Menelly. At this point she was living in London (St George Hanover Square area).
I have searched and searched for the marriage between Catherine and Walter Stewart but can't find anything.
There don't appear to be any records of a Catherine Birmingham marrying anyone with the surname Stewart.
I have searched Irish records as best I can, as there is the possibility that she was Irish.
Catherine and Walter had a son named Henry Stewart. He may have been born in 1867. I have no idea where.
Catherine's name may have been spelled Catharine.
If anyone knows how to track this marriage down, I would be really grateful for the help.
Thank you
Emma
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When / Where was Catherine born
- sorry just spotted c1843 you don't know where
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There is a Catherine with father Walter bn 1849, Durham
1851 H0107/2391 f158 p 24
She appears on 1911 census and dies in Steyning reg dist
Sep qtr 1921
Catherine Menelly age 78
1861 still at home with parents age 13. You say she was widowed by 1871. Could she have married in Scotland / Gretna she is at the right end of the country.
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Hi. Thanks for your reply.
Yes, this is the confusing part that I should have mentioned.
My Catherine died in 1885. In Chelsea.
William Menelly then married again - to another Catherine - which is the one who died in the 1900s that you found.
William and my Catherine had two daughters Elizabeth and Edith Jane Menelly.
Edith emigrated to the states and died there in 1950. She married a Chapman
I have found quite a bit about the family after Catherine's death in 1885 but very difficult to find anything about her before.
I had wondered about that Catherine with the father Walter in Durham too. The birth dates are a bit out though.
I have two records of Catherine being in a workhouse in 1881 with one of her daughters and her birth date is given as 1843 on both documents.
The Walter Birmingham in Durham in 1851 also seems to have emigrated to America before 1871. I can't find any record of that Catherine going with him... have found a few records for that Walter and his son Richard in America though.
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I suppose the Catherine in Durham could be the one I'm looking for... maybe she didn't go to America with her father... or maybe she did? And I haven't found her yet?
Her father's occupation on her second marriage certificate is very specific "farrier".
Interestingly, her son Henry Stewart was a farrier sergeant in the army. ...
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On the 1871 census is a Catherine STEWART a widow; occ. nurse; age 29; born New York, America - she is living with Lady Ann Beckett at #11 Stratford Place, Marylebone, London
This is very close to where William and Catherine married
It may be if this is correct she was married in the US
Her marriage to William John MENELLEY on Jun 07 1871 shows both as living at "King Street"
Their witnesses were James RICHARD and Mary WALKER
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Thank you for that!
Born in New York... interesting. I'll look into that one. Are all American states marriage indexes online?
Thank you for transcribing the surname Richard too. I couldn't get that at first.
Strangely I can't find Catherine and William Menelly on any 1881 census. Their two daughters are staying with another family on the night of the census.
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I am sorry I am not familiar with researching in the USA so not sure of availability of records
I'll look where I have access and see if anything shows up
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Her father's occupation on her second marriage certificate is very specific "farrier".
Interestingly, her son Henry Stewart was a farrier sergeant in the army. ...
Has Henry's army record survived? as it could name his parents and/or place of birth for you
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No it doesn't seem to have survived unfortunately
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second topic on this - LINK (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=691955.45)
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Yes. I started that topic a while ago but never got any closer to finding Catherine's family.
I think what's throwing me off the New York clue. .. is that when her daughter Edith Jane Menelly emigrated to America, she gave her mother's birthplace as being either "England" or "Ireland " on all the US censuses that she was part of
So... if Catherine was American, does that mean that her daughter didn't know that?
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It could well be - I have an ancestor that on later census returns stated he was born in Ireland but on an early return while his mother was alive she stated he was born in India
He and his middle brother were born in India and returned to Ireland at an early age; the elder and younger siblings were born in Ireland - I don't know if he didn't realise he was born abroad by the time he was filling in the returns himself or if someone else did them on his behalf and assumed he was Irish born.
Many errors of this nature exist unfortunately to test us all!!
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Ok. Thanks for that!
If I could just find the marriage record for Catherine and Walter Stewart it would help.
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AS you've been trying to locate Catherine's ancestry for a while you may have already searched for these
If the Catherine born in New York is correct her son Henry must be with a family member somewhere
Have you searched for a 5-6 year old as a lodger, visitor, relative other than son etc?
Remembering STEWARD, STEWARD, STUART, etc.
If you locate a good prospect the place of birth given would give you a location to search births to try and find a match.
Catherine thinking of "common decency" I would not expect to marry within months of being widowed(!); have you looked for a death of a Walter STEWART between 1865 and 1870?
Lastly a very long, and more difficult, shot is the movements of Lady Beckett could provide a clue to where Catherine joined her service
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Thanks for the ideas!
I have searched for a Walter Stewart death between those years but didn't come up with much. I will start again there though I think.
Interestingly.... on the family search website I did come across a Walter Stewart death in New York in 1867... and the record states that this Walter was born in England in 1842...
But I think I'll have another look at UK deaths.
I had wondered whether Henry was left with Catherine's parents as a child. Since Catherine's father was also called Walter and was a farrier... and Henry went on to be a farrier sergeant. .. was he raised by his grandfather Walter?
Henry gives his father's name as Walter Stewart on his marriage certificate (no occupation )... but I'm wondering whether his father's first name was Walter at all?
The location of Henry as a child is mysterious....
He joined the British army in either 1884 or 1885... and we think he joined up in England.
Would he need to be a British citizen to join the British army?
I found a London workhouse admission for a Henry Stewart in December 1872... he was listed as being born in 1867 and the parish of admission was St George - again a St George connection. Catherine married her second husband in St George.
In the description it says his parents were caught begging.
He stayed in the workhouse for 3 days.
I'm not sure if this is my Henry or not. I don't know much about the workhouses but Catherine definitely appears on the list for a workhouse in 1881.
Also, Catherine's two daughters with her second husband are also listed as boarders with a family in Essex in the 1881 census. I don't know why Essex as both girls were born in central London. And the people they are boarding with don't seem significant.
I can't find Catherine or her husband William Menelly on any 1881 UK census.
I will definitely try and have a look at the Lady Beckett link too.
Thank you for all your help with this.