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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: toni2502 on Friday 10 June 16 16:52 BST (UK)

Title: 2 PEOPLE??
Post by: toni2502 on Friday 10 June 16 16:52 BST (UK)
Hi,I hope somebody can help.I thought I had found my great grandfather and his ancestors, but whilst looking at the 1911 census I find I might have been looking at the wrong persons history. It seems that there are two Francis Burdett Courtenay's both born in the same year and the same part of London, both Postman and living within minutes of one another. One, my great grandfather is with his wife of 26 years, daughter and son in law. The  another states Francis is married for 12 years with two small children.They also both have a Francis Burdett Courtenay a Doctor of Medicine as their father, could this really happen or am I going quite mad :-[ I have my great grandfathers wedding certificate dated 1885 that states his father is Deceased.It seems I have got to start all over again at my family tree and would love any help anyone can offer.Kind regards toni
Title: Re: 2 PEOPLE??
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 10 June 16 17:20 BST (UK)
It could be possible that he is entered twice in 1911  (It does happen)  Did he sign both forms

How do you know that they both had the same father. Was the wife s name the same on both

Title: Re: 2 PEOPLE??
Post by: carol8353 on Friday 10 June 16 17:26 BST (UK)
So which one is your ancestor,the one who married Elizabeth Scott in J 1885,or the (late) marriage to Alice E Over in Southwark in M1919.

Looks like he'd had children with her before they married?
Title: Re: 2 PEOPLE??
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 10 June 16 17:27 BST (UK)
That is what I am thinking too Carol  ::)
Title: Re: 2 PEOPLE??
Post by: carol8353 on Friday 10 June 16 17:29 BST (UK)
I see he died in Watford in 1944.

Maybe he'd left Elizabeth and taken up with Alice,but she still thought he'd be with her on census night and filled the form in accordingly?
Title: Re: 2 PEOPLE??
Post by: Millmoor on Friday 10 June 16 17:52 BST (UK)
Hi
1901 census seems to have him recorded as Frank and with Alice and a six month old son called Edward.

Also in 1901 Elizabeth Courteney is recorded as head of household with daughters Marie (she married George Robins in 1906) and Lillian in Lambeth.

William
Title: Re: 2 PEOPLE??
Post by: chempat on Friday 10 June 16 17:59 BST (UK)
Might be worth applying for the will?
Title: Re: 2 PEOPLE??
Post by: iolaus on Friday 10 June 16 18:57 BST (UK)
bigamy?
Title: Re: 2 PEOPLE??
Post by: Millmoor on Friday 10 June 16 19:01 BST (UK)
I note there is a baptism for Edward George Courtenay - parents shown as Francis Burdett  and Alice Elizabeth Courtenay.

Francis Burdett Courtenay's date of birth is on his baptism record 27 May 1862. I think you might find it useful to locate Francis Burdett Courtenay in the 1939 register and see what date of birth is recorded there. There is a death for Alice E Courtenay in Watford in 1941.

There is also a birth for Alice E  Over in Brighton in 1875. I think the marriage cert between Francis Burdett Courtenay and Alice Over would help to confirm that you are looking at one Francis - if so you are perhaps looking at adding to your tree and not at starting again.

William
Title: Re: 2 PEOPLE??
Post by: isobelw on Saturday 11 June 16 10:15 BST (UK)
Re your previous posting on this subject http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=728992.msg5873612#msg5873612
It would appear that Minnie Elizabeth Courtenay daughter of Francis Charles Courtenay and Mary Ann ( dob given as 8/12/1864) and Alfred Faulkner (b 1868) and Robert Faulkner (b1872) sons of Alfred Morland Faulkner and Mary Ann were baptised consecutively on 17/6/1874 at All Saints Wandsworth (London baptisms Ancestry).
Isobel
Title: Re: 2 PEOPLE??
Post by: toni2502 on Monday 13 June 16 15:23 BST (UK)
Thank you everyone for your help... I have looked over again at my family tree and everything was ok with my findings even including I believe Francis Charles Courtenay (Dawes)my 2nd great grandfather was the illegitimate son of Francis Burdett Courtenay (1811-1886) and he went on to marry Mary Ann Hill..and they had 3 children Francis Burdett, (my great grandfather??) Edward William and Minnie Elizabeth. Mary Ann  remarried again to Alfred morland Faulkner and had further children.But it all become confusing with the two 1911 census.One has him with his wife Elizabeth and his daughter Marie and her husband.But he has not signed it..The second has him with another wife and two small children and also his half brother Frederick Faulkner. Also the 1901 cenuse states that Elizabeth Courtenay was living alone with her two daughters.. Could it mean bigamy??  My grandmother was Lillian Elizabeth Courtenay.She always told me her father was a postman but never said much more about her family.
Title: Re: 2 PEOPLE??
Post by: isobelw on Monday 13 June 16 16:25 BST (UK)
It would only be bigamy if Elizabeth Scott/Courtenay was still alive in 1919. Interestingly there is a death on freebmd of an Elizabeth Courtney age 50 in Wandsworth in 1919 ( March quarter). This would match age wise with Elizabeth Scott.
Isobel
Title: Re: 2 PEOPLE??
Post by: apples1 on Sunday 04 December 16 21:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Toni
Francis Charles Courtenay Dawes is my partners 3x great grandfather. The family believe that he died in the American Civil War.