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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: siouxie366 on Tuesday 07 June 16 18:21 BST (UK)

Title: Can it be real??
Post by: siouxie366 on Tuesday 07 June 16 18:21 BST (UK)
I have been researching my OH's family line.  He has a rather nice photograph of his Mum and Dad's wedding during World War Two.  I sent off for the marriage certificate to try and identify everyone in the photograph.  It seems his "best man" was another soldier, probably from the same regiment.  However, on checking the names of the witnesses I found the 'errant' soldier had signed as "Tommy Atkins"!!!
Really????  And if not - why the deception?
Siouxie366
Title: Re: Can it be real??
Post by: groom on Tuesday 07 June 16 19:59 BST (UK)
There are quite a few Tommy Atkins on Freebmd and even more Thomas Atkins, so could easily be correct.
Title: Re: Can it be real??
Post by: Kevin Burrell on Tuesday 07 June 16 20:18 BST (UK)
There are also 37 Thomas or T. Atkins listed on the Forces War Records Site for the 2nd World War yes it could be real
 
Title: Re: Can it be real??
Post by: jess5athome on Tuesday 07 June 16 20:22 BST (UK)
Have I missed something  :-\ am I led to believe that you suspect that Tommy Atkins is a made up name? I can walk 200 yards from where I live to someone called Sammy Atkins, and he may have had a brother named Tommy, (not that they could be connected to your man)  ;)

Frank.
Title: Re: Can it be real??
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 07 June 16 20:28 BST (UK)
No names, No Pack-drill   as they say.
Title: Re: Can it be real??
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Tuesday 07 June 16 20:50 BST (UK)
Have I missed something  :-\ am I led to believe that you suspect that Tommy Atkins is a made up name? I can walk 200 yards from where I live to someone called Sammy Atkins, and he may have had a brother named Tommy, (not that they could be connected to your man)  ;)

Frank.

It is because of the  Kipling poem about Tommy Atkins:

I WENT into a public 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
 The publican 'e up an' sez, " We serve no red-coats here."
 The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
 I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
 O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, go away " ;
 But it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play
 The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
 O it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play.

 I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
 They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
 They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
 But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
 For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, wait outside ";
 But it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide
 The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
 O it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide.

 Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
 Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
 An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
 Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
 Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
 But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
 The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
 O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.

 We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
 But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
 An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
 Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
 While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be'ind,"
 But it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind
 There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
 O it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

 You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
 We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
 Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
 The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
 For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
 But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot;
 An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
 An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!


Title: Re: Can it be real??
Post by: Kevin Burrell on Tuesday 07 June 16 21:22 BST (UK)
Yep - google the name....
Tommy Atkins is slang for a common soldier in the British Army. It was certainly well established during the nineteenth century, but is particularly associated with World War I. It can be used as a term of reference, or as a form of address.
Title: Re: Can it be real??
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 07 June 16 21:26 BST (UK)
Yep - google the name....
Tommy Atkins is slang for a common soldier in the British Army. It was certainly well established during the nineteenth century, but is particularly associated with World War I. It can be used as a term of reference, or as a form of address.
  Just as G.I.   is a nickname for US  soldiers.
Title: Re: Can it be real??
Post by: jess5athome on Tuesday 07 June 16 21:29 BST (UK)
Have I missed something  :-\ am I led to believe that you suspect that Tommy Atkins is a made up name? I can walk 200 yards from where I live to someone called Sammy Atkins, and he may have had a brother named Tommy, (not that they could be connected to your man)  ;)

Frank.

It is because of the  Kipling poem about Tommy Atkins:



Yes, I definitely missed something  :-[ however I have just learned a great deal, thank you so much  :) I had always known the name "Tommy" was associated with the British troops in WWI but never knew of the Atkins bit.

Frank.
Title: Re: Can it be real??
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Tuesday 07 June 16 22:45 BST (UK)
I would have thought that a soldier trying to conceal his identity would at least sign Thomas or T. Atkins.  Maybe he was genuine - in which case he might have signed J.Smith  :D
Title: Re: Can it be real??
Post by: larkspur on Wednesday 08 June 16 10:36 BST (UK)
There are 2 Tommy Atkins baptised between 1915-1930
Births Jun 1919 
Atkins    Tommy   
MMS- Brown   
Tynemouth   
10b   475
Births Dec 1924   
Atkins    Tommy   
 MMS-Wilcox   
Long Ashton   
 5c   774   
Title: Re: Can it be real??
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Wednesday 08 June 16 15:42 BST (UK)
But how many Thomas Atkins were there?
Title: Re: Can it be real??
Post by: siouxie366 on Wednesday 08 June 16 19:28 BST (UK)
A huge thank you to one and all who replied to my post.  It was all very interesting.

I think I will check to make sure that he is of the same regiment as OH's father and see if he really is Tommy Atkins.  If they are of the same regiment it would be nice to know if he survived the D-Day landing, which - sadly - OH's father did not.  I know he won't be of "the line" so to speak, but it would just be interesting to see if I can find out.  I think we all like a bit of a "mystery" in our family trees!!

Thank you all so much
Title: Re: Can it be real??
Post by: Guyana on Thursday 09 June 16 17:59 BST (UK)
As an addendum, I once shared a billet with a Sergeant Thomas Atkins, Royal Engineers. He was a real "old soldier", as  his Army No. had only six digits, whereas the rest of us had eight. Whether he served during the war I don't know, but he was certainly old enough.
Title: Re: Can it be real??
Post by: siouxie366 on Friday 10 June 16 17:17 BST (UK)
Dear Guyana,

Thank you for your reply.  "Your" Thomas Atkins really must have been an old soldier according to his number!!  My OH, ex Coldstream Guards, often receives communications from or meets up with other CG members and he often bemoans the fact that their army numbers are vastly different from his.  I don't know if he thinks of himself as an 'old soldier' or that they are 'mere babies' by comparison!!
Siouxie
Title: Re: Can it be real??
Post by: jbml on Friday 29 July 16 16:50 BST (UK)
The use of "Tommy" to designate a British soldier continued unabated into WWII.

German tanks ran on Diesel ... whereas the Sherman tanks which the British acquired in their thousands under "Lease-lend" assistance ran on petrol. his gave them a rather distressing tendency to explode in flames when struck by anti-tank shells.

The Germans dubbed them "Tommy cookers".

The Tommies themselves called them "Ronsons".