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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: a chesters on Saturday 04 June 16 06:33 BST (UK)
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Could someone please explain why someone would be baptised twice?
On 22 March 1855 Sarah Ann Waterhouse was baptised at All Saints, Elton, Bury. Parents were John and Alice Waterhouse, living at Cockey Lane, and he was a labourer.
On 7 Nov 1882 Sarah Ann Waterhouse was baptised at St Stevens Church, Elton Bury. Daughter of John and Alice Waterhouse, living in Elton. He was a block printer. Also noted on the baptism register was that she was now the wife of Aaron Pilling, a joiner of Elton.
In December 1882, she died, and was buried on 20 Dec 1882 at All Saints Elton.
Sarah Ann and Aaron were married at All Saints on 31 July 1875, and had two children, James bn 1877, and Elizabeth Ann, bn 1880.
Why would she be baptised a second time, at a different church?
Any ideas would be greatfully received.
A Chesters
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Perhaps she was unsure that she had been baptised and, in anticipation of her imminent demise, wanted to make certain her status was confirmed in readiness for her entry into the afterlife.
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What were the denominations of the two churches?
Maybe she converted from one denomination to another and wished to be baptised into the new one
CoE to Catholic
CoE to Non-Conformist
etc
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Hello,
Where did you find the 1882 baptism? The ones I see finish in March 1882. I was wondering if there were several at the same - perhaps a mission or something.
If not, perhaps as said already, she was ill and wasn't sure whether she was baptised or not. :-\
Heywood
Added: ignore that- I see it now and no evidence of multiple adult baptisms!
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As Marmalady said, could be mixed denomination situation.
In may tree I have a whole family of children that were baptised twice, their father was CofE & had the baptised accordingly, but (when He was at work) his wife & brother in law took the children to an RC church to get them registered there.
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They are both C o E and close to each other.
Sarah Ann was buried at the first church which was perhaps her parental parish.
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Thank you all for your interest and help.
The one thing I had not thought about, brentor boy and heywood brought up, that she was not sure about being baptised originally.
I had assumed that both were C of E, but had not checked if they were :-[ so Marmalady and Pegasuss were right to query the possibility of mixed denomination. My only defense there was trying to sort everything out at once.
Again many thanks for your help
AC
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You ask about Sarah Ann WATERHOUSE who was baptised 'twice'. The first time at All Saints, Elton, in 1855, and then in 1882 at St Stephen's, Elton. All Saints, Elton was established ca 1840 to serve the Elton Township on the west side of Bury and St Stephen's was established in about 1870 as a daughter school chapel about half a mile further west to ensure that a Board School was not established in the area.
The graveyard at All Saints, Elton, was the principal graveyard in Elton.
Possible reasons for the second 'baptism' are (1) her wanting to be confirmed and not being sure of her baptism or (2) her being seriously ill and in danger of death and her family not being sure she was baptised. The latter has been suggested by Brentor Boy and is the more likely in view of her death in December 1882.
The extracts of the baptism Registers that I have show -
All Saints, Elton, Bury. Sarah Ann Waterhouse dau of John and Alice Waterhouse, of Cockey Lane, Labourer born 10-Mar 1855 bapt 22-Mar 1855
St Stephen's, Elton, Bury. Sarah Ann Waterhouse dau of John and Alice Waterhouse and now wife of Aaron Pilling, of Peers St, Elton, Block Printer/Jnr born 10-Mar 1855 bapt 06-Nov 1882
I have not seen the original entries.
As has been said, Sarah Ann married Aaron PILLING in All Saints in 1875 and there were three children of this marriage all baptised at All Saints -
Name Father Mother Born Baptised
James Pilling Aaron Sarah Ann 18-Jun 1876 14-Jul 1876
Jesse Pilling Aaron Sarah Ann 16-Jun 1878 24-Aug 1878
Elizabeth Alice Pilling Aaron Sarah Ann 18-Dec 1880 19-Mar 1881
The middle child, Jesse, was buried in All Saints graveyard 3 Dec 1878 aged 5 months.
Sarah Ann was also buried in the same grave on 20 Dec 1882, aged 27years. There does not appear to be a memorial stone on this grave, nor any other burials in this grave.
ASE 2174 1328 Sarah Ann Pilling Elton B 20-Dec 1882 27 1855
It is possible that Sarah Ann MIGHT have died as the result of problems in pregnancy - though that is a guess. Obtaining her death certificate will show the official cause of death
There is an entry in Lancashirebmd (http://lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/deathind.cgi ) that could be your Aaron
Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1923
Surname, Forename(s); Age; Sub-District, Registers At; Reference
PILLING Aaron 70 Elton Bury ELT/40/14
This person is not buried in All Saints graveyard.
Hope this helps
Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.)
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But her mother Alice was still alive in 1891 - you would have thought that she would know about the first baptism? Assuming that they were talking ;-)
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Thanks to Gardener for the comment -
> But her mother Alice was still alive in 1891 - you would have thought that she would know about the first baptism? Assuming that they were talking ;-)
This prompted me to look at what I had written and I should have written -
> nor any other PILLING burials in this grave.
I had not checked for any other names. I have now and the table below lists all the burials I can find in that grave in order of their burial -
Forenames Surname Abode Date Year Age Calc YoBirth
Jesse Waterhouse Elton 08-Dec 1863 13 1850
Jesse Pilling Elton 03-Dec 1878 5m 1878
John Waterhouse Elton 06-Nov 1879 1 1878
John Waterhouse Elton 17-Jul 1880 63 1817
Sarah Ann Pilling Elton 20-Dec 1882 27 1855
Alice Waterhouse Birtle 29-Jun 1892 68 1824
Emma Waterhouse Elton 24-Mar 1894 36 1858
With the help of Census data you can probably arrange these in a family structure, particularly if you relate these persons to information from LancashireBMD.
I was puzzled originally by the place of death of Alice Waterhouse - Birtle. This is on the east side of Bury and was originally a township in the parish of Middleton.
It is possible that Alice died in the Union Workhouse which was built at Jericho in Birtle in the 1850s and which by this date had some hospital facilities - some details are to be found at http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Bury/ Her death certificate should give fuller details of the place of death.
None of this begins to explain why the family did not know about Sarah Ann's baptism as an infant. May be Sarah Ann's mother was already in the workhouse (known as Jericho) and perhaps the family were just not sure if she was or was not baptised.
Hope this helps
Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.)
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Thank you both for that information.
I had not found the information about Jesse, so will have to look into that.
I will also look into the other information. I have not yet got the information about the deaths of John and Alice, so that will be next to be checked out. As you say Jim, it could be that Alice was in the workhouse, but I will check things out.
Again, many thanks for your help.
AC