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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: Beavances on Friday 03 June 16 13:07 BST (UK)
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Hi Next week I will be in Dundee for just two days ( Friday & Monday) and would like to use my time to research family history. Can anyone recommend the best places to go for research? I have never done any 'hands -on' research in Scotland before so really want to make best use of my time.
So far I have used 'Scotland's People' - which is different to the English records I am used too. I have managed some BMD records using this on-line facility but census records seems difficult ( and expensive!) to find if the name is one where the spelling is variable. This might sound naive but are there any advantages to visiting the records offices or is it still the same process as using Scotland's People?
I know the family originated in Dundee and at least one was involves in the Jute industry.
Thanks for reading!
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Hi ,
If you have downloaded records already it might be worth posting details here to see if we can identify the family on Census records.
Scotlandspeople online records are subject to limits(births - 100 years, marriages - 75 years , and deaths - 50 years) , family history centres will give you access to modern records.
ev
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Not for specific family member research, but if you want to get a feel for what your ancestor is likely to have experienced working in the jute industry, I can highly recommend a visit, if time allows, to Verdant Works:
http://www.rrsdiscovery.com/index.php?pageID=130
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Thanks - The names I have are Henrietta Nicoll (her maiden name) and Alexander Laurie. I know they married in 1877 in Dundee and that they had 4 children ( I have been able to find their births /marriages /deaths for these)
The only census returns I have for these is for 1901 when the couple and their 4 children ( aged 22 19 15 & 12) are living at 11 Nelson ? Dundee.
I also have an 1861 census for Henrietta family - living at 58 Rosebank Street Dundee.
Thankyou also for the details of the Verdant Works, will definitely make a visit there.
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1881 census, Dundee, Forfar.
Address, 4 South George Street.
Alexander Lawrie, Head, Commercial Clerk, M. age 31 years, M. born Laurencekirk, Kincardine,
Henrietta Lawrie, Wife, M. age 30 years, F. born Dundee, Forfar,
Rosa May Lawrie, Daur, U. age 2 years, F. born Dundee, Forfar.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Friends of Dundee Archives website, in their Dundee Directories section, has Alexander in 1882, a clerk with Alexander Low & Son, living at 3 South George Street and in 1896, same occupation, living at 11 Nelson Street. (Haven't looked for the Nicoll family, though).
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Thanks everyone - I am creating a diagram to build up the picture of who was where and with whom! I have also seen on Google earth that Nelson Street looks is still there so shall also take a walk up to there to get a feel for the place.
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You could try contacting the cemeteries dept in the library who gave me a plan of the cemetery with grave numbers for my relatives, which led to my finding an uncle I didn't know about from the grave stone.
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Thanks antiquesam Great advice - I shall do that.
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You could try contacting the cemeteries dept in the library who gave me a plan of the cemetery with grave numbers for my relatives, which led to my finding an uncle I didn't know about from the grave stone.
In my own personal research experience, I find the old Headstones a fund of information. My great grandfathers headstone (died circa 1900 ) contains so many names of children and their ages.
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This seems a bit disappointing:
http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/supportservs/genealogyunit/
Imber
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Tay Valley Family History Society might be worth a visit ( tayvalleyfhs.org.uk). They are open 10 to 4 weekdays and 10 to midday on a Saturday. Staffed by volunteers who will be both knowledgeable and helpful and they will have access to census records etc for that area.
Isobel
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I know understand IMBER why the Dundee City Genealogy looks disappointing! At first clicked it open and thought it looked perfect and all under one roof too - then I saw that it is not open to the public, so disappointing. However they will do some searches for you - at an hourly charge - so I well use them if I don't manage to complete my searches next week.
The Tay Valley FHS looks as though it will be very helpful to me, thank you for this information isobelw - this is the sort of place I usually only find out exists after I have visited somewhere! Their web site is informative and also gives details of rough costs. Hopefully one of their volunteers will be able to steer me in the right direction rather than the 'hit-n-miss' approach I found using the on-line information without having the benefit of local knowledge.
Thank you both.
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Hi Next week I will be in Dundee for just two days ( Friday & Monday) and would like to use my time to research family history. Can anyone recommend the best places to go for research?
The Scotland's People Centre in Edinburgh. This is by far the best place to construct the basic tree because it's the only place you will get all the birth, marriage and death records, plus the census, at the click of a mouse. It costs £15 for a day but you can easily access all the information you would have to pay-per-view for in the online system, plus all the more recent certificates, at no additional cost.
If you already have your basic tree with all the births, deaths, marriages and census, then you are ready to start on local archives and record offices.
are there any advantages to visiting the records offices
Once you have your basic tree, then the local records offices or archives are useful for other
information. The information in archives varies enormously, so you need to scrutinise the catalogues of each one to find out what is likely to be useful for your particular family.
or is it still the same process as using Scotland's People?
A few local archives (Aberdeen, Glasgow, Hawick, Inverness and possibly others) also offer access to the Scotland's People system. I do not know whether or not Dundee does. Otherwise no, each local archive has its own systems.
You may be able to find other resources of interest by searching the catalogue of the Scottish Archive Network www.scan.org.uk - sometimes information of interest is in a university or private archive. For example I know that the archives of the University of Dundee holds a lot of archive material not obviously related to the university itself, so that might be worth looking at. http://arccat.dundee.ac.uk/ mentions Business Records: relating to businesses in the Tayside area in particular to the linen and jute industries and the latter’s connections with India
family history centres will give you access to modern records
Only the half dozen or so archives which are linked in to the Scotland's People system can do this. Specifically, the family history centres run by family history societies and the LDS church cannot offer access to certificates later than the online cut-off dates.
One source you might find useful for checking where your people lived is the various Post Office and other directories on the National Library of Scotland web site www.nls.uk - go for the digital gallery.
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What wealth of information and ideas I have now got - brilliant! I wish now I had posted this before I had booked the train tickets as I probably would then have started, as Forfarian suggested, with ScotlandsPeople in Edinburgh. Amazing that the records are available there for just a daily fee - this is something I will definitely pursue at a later date.
For the moment though Forfarian the links you have provided to the post offices list show records that Alexander Laurie started his own company in manufacturing jute products - we did not know this before today so thank you very much for that link. I can also see from the archives at the university that there are some company records archived.
Thank you all who have read and or added to my post - I now feel that my time in Dundee will be really productive.
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:) :) :)
Glad the information has been useful, and happy hunting!
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Was Alexander Laurie's, mother Margaret Machray. his father James Laurie.
Regards,
Jonn
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Yes - that is the family. Have you managed to find something else?
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Really depends on what you have.
Ie. James Lawrie, married Margaret Machray. 10 Feb. 1844. Strachan, Kincardine.
Alexander Lawrie, was born 25 May. 1849. Laurencekirk, Kincardine. to those parents. That fits with the 1881 census i provided earlier for Alexander, and Henrietta.
The 1881 census for Laurencekirk, Kincardine, Address,
2 High Street,
Margaret Lawrie, Head, W. aged 60 years, F. born Kincardine ,
Elizabeth Lawrie, Daur, Dressmaker, U. age 25 years, F. born Garvock, Kincardine,
This is Alexander's, widowed mother and his younger sister.
You will find loads of different spellings of Laurie, Machray, etc. but a lot of information on the families on Familysearch, and Scotlandspeople.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Hi John - thank you for these details. I know you have found the right details because Margaret's surname (Machray) was later added to her grandson as a middle name. I will have another go with Family search and will probably add a bit more money to Scotlands people so I have as much as I can before my trip.
Thanks you for the information you have found and for steering me in the right direction
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Hello,
If you go to family search, put in surname field La*rie, then in birth place Scotland, then in parents names, James La*rie, then mother name Margaret M*ray, then country Scotland, this will cover all the variations for the required surnames.
The results will mostly be in Kincardine, do not be put of with the variations of surnames you will note the birth of young Elizabeth, matches with the exact place of birth on the census 1881 with her mother.
Margaret Machray Laurie, died 1890. aged 69 years. Laurencekirk, Kincardine.
Regards,
Jonn.
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beavances
Not sure if you are aware, but the Dundee newspapers, from 1800s to mid 1900s, are available on FindMyPast or British Newspapers Archive (subscription services). They can be a mine of wonderful info, and it can be worthwhile searching using addresses without surnames too, as sometimes you pick up entries that may have been missed if surname spelling was not as expected.
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Thanks Jonn and Scotmum _ I used the your search method suggested for Family search and found the family - and children we were unaware of. Also noticed another Alexander Laurie (Lawrie) which got me wondering if I had indeed got the right family but used the newspapers search and found the death of the right Alexander Laurie which gave his age at death as 96 so was able to check back and confirm that it was the right family. Can't believe how much information I now have in such a short time - great!
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Hi just wanted to let all of you who answered my plea for help regarding for my trip to Dundee just how incredibly helpful your ideas and advice turned out to be. We started by visiting the Verdant works which gave a very good background information about the jute mills - hadn't known much about this at all. Also visited the local library and met a really helpful librarian who could direct to the right sort of records to find out about one of the people we were researching; he managed to dig out company reports which gave details of how much each shareholder had in the company, dates it was formed etc. Also because of his local knowledge helped us to find where our man had worked. we were then able to go and see the premises (amazingly just round the corner form the library!) Also spent a profitable morning in the local FHS office, everyone was helpful and we found some BMD details and all the census details up to 1901. Also searched local newspapers and then with all this information went to look at some of the houses the family had lived in. I know we were were lucky that several are still standing. Although, sadly one - on Somerville Place West, had along with any other houses that had been there had gone. For me seeing the properties and places linked to ancestors, looking at the areas etc is the real icing on the cake of family research. So thank you all! A really worthwhile trip for us. Having your ideas and suggestions meant we could hit the ground running and accomplish so much. Thank you all.
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What a great update - glad to hear that you had a fruitful and enjoyable visit.