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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Westmeath => Topic started by: Pennines on Saturday 28 May 16 13:12 BST (UK)
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I am on the hunt for apparantly missing Irish death records (again!). This time for James Travers b abt 1811 and his wife Mary born abt 1829. Both apparantly in Westmeath.
1901 census James and Mary Travers are in Aghalasty and Ankersland.
James Travers - aged 90 (hence birth year abt 1811)
Mary Travers - aged 72 (hence birth year abt 1829).
1911 census - Mary Travers is still in Aghalasty and Ankersland - now a widow aged 83. Age fairly consistent between the 2 census records.
I cannot find a death registration for EITHER of them. The PLU is supposedly Castletowndelvin - but even ignoring that - I cannot spot likely deaths.
Is anyone able to see anything I've missed please?
Is it common to have missing death registrations in Ireland? I seem to keep struggling - not only with these 2, but with others also.
Many thanks to anyone who tries to help.
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Possible for Mary TRAVERS in 1919 but no age given LINK (http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-perform-search.jsp?namefm=mary&namel=travers&location=Delvin&yyfrom=1911&yyto=1940&submit=Search&sort=&pageSize=100¢ury=&decade=&exact=&ddBfrom=&ddMfrom=&ddDfrom=&ddPfrom=&mmBfrom=&mmMfrom=&mmDfrom=&mmPfrom=&yyBfrom=&yyMfrom=&yyDfrom=&yyPfrom=&ddBto=&ddMto=&ddDto=&ddPto=&mmBto=&mmMto=&mmDto=&mmPto=&yyBto=&yyMto=&yyDto=&yyPto=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&locationP=&keywordb=&keywordm=&keywordd=&keywordp=&event=&district=)
and for James TRAVERS in 1908 but with inconsistent age LINK (http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/f1481512777972)
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looking at the 1908 James Travers
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRN1-4MJ
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hp9/ there does not appear to be a man of that age in the area so depending on the informants knowledge of the person it could be him.
Mary age 80
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRL9-7J7
likewise for Mary 1911
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hpa/
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dathai
that's what I was thinking or if 92 was mis-read as 72 in the transcription
Its interesting that familysearch.org gives an age for Mary but irishgenealogy.ie doesn't
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easily done with some of the handwriting both you and i have seen on certs over the years
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:) ;)
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Thank you very much Myluck and Dathai
On Ancestry - the one in 1919 in Delvin - is aged 80 and it could be her with an incorrect age. I see you are also looking at Delvin for the James Travers death in 1908. I suppose the age on both the census and at death could be incorrect.
So I am now assuming that Castletowndelvin PLU/Reg Dist - is actually Delvin. (Nothing is straightforward is it!).
As you say Dathai - he's the only elderly James Travers around in that area in 1901 - but considerably younger at death. (That moisturiser he was using must be good!)
Also - on 1911 census -Mary has included the fact that she was married for 53 years. If this was up to James death - it would give a marriage year of c 1855 (this fits in with the birth of their son, Joseph Travers, who I am researching and who was born about 1857 - died in 1910 aged 57)
Many thanks again -all help is very much appreciated. I'm going to have to risk sending for these certificates I think.
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one of mine added the length of time he was married to two women down in 1911 and confused us no end!
I would always invest in an actual certificate in the hope that the address, occupation, informant, or some other piece of information will collaborate what I am sure of as people got ages and durations of marriage, even number of children notoriously wrong.
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notice they have a married daughter Ellen born circa 1869
so is this them
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hpb/
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Yes - I do agree about certificates - brilliant when you can find them!
I have had no luck finding a marriage yet for James Travers and Mary - nor the baptism of their son, Joseph. Think I've found 3 of their other 9 children though - including Ellen. (Not a great success rate so far - but battling on).
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FTR
Joseph TRAVERS and family on 1901 census - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001127721/)
Struck out children with grandparent in 1901 – LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001255808/)
Joseph TRAVERS m Kate KAVANAGH Jul 23 1899 Oldcastle Co. Meath
Children:
Michael Jun 09 1900
Rose Sep 28 1902
Joseph TRAVERS m Catherine CONNELL Mar 08 1886 Oldcastle Co. Meath
Catherine TRAVERS died Apr 13 1898 21 days after the birth of Kate of Puerperal fever with phlebitis
Children:
Patrick Mar 17 1887
James Nov 16 1888
Mary Oct 18 1891
Eliza Aug 4 18934
Kate Mar 24 1898
Presumably the three siblings found are:
Ellen bap. Jun 17 1866 (m TRAVERS) - LINK to church register (http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635118#page/59/mode/1up)
Patrick bap. May 15 1868 (mother McGLYNN)
James bap. Jul 10 1870 (mother GLYNN)
If all the family were baptised in Collinstown they should be in the registers - they are not indexed but I have added the direct link for Ellen's baptism above. You will see that the handwriting is a challenge and other entries may have been mistranscribed.
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0918
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Myluck - thank you for going to all this trouble. Yes those are the baptisms I could find for James and Mary's children.
I do have a lot of this info --- the little 3 year old grandchild, Catherine (often known as Kate)Travers - with James, Mary and aunt Ellen in 1901 is my husband's grandmother.
It is a sad story -- her mother (Catherine Connell) died 3 weeks after baby Catherine was born (miraculously I have both the certificates for the birth of the baby AND the death of the mother.)
Joseph remarried to Kate Kavanagh 20 years younger than him -- baby Catherine and one of her brothers went to live with Joseph's parents and sister, Ellen in Westmeath.
Joseph died in 1910 aged 53 - so presumably he is the one child, his mother, Mary mentions as having died by 1911.
Baby Kate marries, 5 months pregnant in 1917.
Her husband joins Army in 1923 when her youngest child is 8 months old.
(Obtained 43 pages of Army records for him from Dublin Military Archives - for free! They don't even have facilities for making donations).
He gets discharged from Army, straight into an Asylum!
Catherine (Kate) (b 1898) dies aged only 43 of heart problems -- (shown as Kathleen on the Civil Reg Index!)
She had a really tough time of it.
It's quite a tragic story. I am trying to write it up - for my husband and his siblings. However these bits I cannot find - I'll have to 'wing' it!
Thank you again for your trouble.
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They were tragic and poignant times really
I wonder are these two more siblings? in correct area with logical names! very loose ;)
LINK to 1901 census (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Westmeath/Fore_East/Aghalasty_and_Ankersland/1777741/) for Thomas 40 and sister Catherine 44 at #10 in Aghalasty and Ankersland (Fore East, Westmeath)
As Joseph's parents and children are at #3
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Great find. The ages are right.
They are still unmarried and together in 1911. I suspect they are other children of James and Mary.
Thank you very much, super sleuth!
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This should probably be on a different thread
A group of Downing Genealogists are researching the family of John Downing b. abt 1571 at Weasenham (probably) in Norfolk and died at Ballysaggart near Lismore in 1629. He appears to have arrived in Ireland in c. 1600 and he served at the battle of Kinsale. His elder children (at least) were born in Suffolk before he left for Ireland and the mother's name was Mary. After the end of hostilities he acquired Ballymanoch a property near Cork and later acquired Ballysaggart and other estates. I have found a reference at https://archive.org/stream/journalofcorkhisv21896cork#page/140/mode/2up/search/Downing, which says that he married a Miss Travers. Having looked up the Travers family on Stirnet, I see that they moved from Lancashire to Cork, so it is likely that they met in Ireland and she is a second wife. John Downing had a 3rd son Lt. John Downing, who married Catherine Browne daughter of Sir Valentine Browne of Mullahiffe, Co. Cork. It is just possible that Miss Travers is his first wife, although this would conflict with the reference above. Are you able to shed any light on this?
Robert Stedall
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Notes on Travers marriages, c.1756 -- 1844.
Format: Manuscript
Subjects: Travers, family of
Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Genealogical Office: Ms.144, pp.66-7