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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Rammers on Wednesday 25 May 16 20:37 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to find information on George Hall, who was a cowkeeper and hay dealer at 8 Murat Street Waterloo in c1910 - thanks.
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Have you got a date of birth for him?
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He was born in circa 1845 in Marston, Lincolnshire.
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What sort of information are you looking for - for instance this is the family in 1901
RG13; Piece: 3444; Folio: 164; Page: 9
Waterloo
George Hall 56 Cow keeper an ? dealer Marston, Lincolnshire
Elizabeth A Hall 41 Isle of Man
William A Hall 8 Waterloo, Lancashire
Marion Hall 6 Waterloo, Lancashire
Winifred A Hall 4 Waterloo, Lancashire
Ernest K Hall 1 Waterloo, Lancashire
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He's at the same Murat St address in 1901
1901
George Hall 56 cow keeper and hay dealer bn Marston Lincs
Elizabeth A 41 bn Isle of Man
Willam 8
Marian 6
Winifred 4
Ernest K 1 children all bn Waterloo Lancs
snap Groom!
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Thanks for this. I was hoping to find a picture of the dairy in Waterloo.......
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Looks as if that was his second marriage
1871 RG10; Piece: 3836; Folio: 58; Page: 30
Waterloo
George Hall 25 Common carrier Marston
Hannah Hall 30 wife Abergele, Denbighshire
Thomas Hall 18 servant carter Doddington, Lincolnshire
Ann Jellicoe 21 boarder Brimstage, Cheshire
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Can you tell us what you have so that we don't duplicate it?
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Yes, George was married twice, but lived at 8 Murat Street during both marriages. That's all the information I have on him.
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Are you wanting other info? eg when first wife died, children etc?
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Have a look at Street View or Google maps, Number 8 may still be standing.
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I'd like to know - his wife's maiden name - Hannah ?
- the date of George Hall's death
- any pictures of George and/or his dairy.
A lot to ask I know! Thanks.
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There was one child by 1881
RG11; Piece: 3695; Folio: 80; Page: 13;
8 Murat St
George Hall 35 Cow keeper
Hannah Hall 41
George A. Hall 8
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So that child's birth cert would give Hannah's maiden name!
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Yes, but I can't find her maiden name......
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Sept 1872
HALL George Alfred W. Derby 8b 480
IF this is the same one from Lancashire BMD, the mother's maiden name was Davies
1872
HALL George Alfred Great Crosby South Sefton DAVIES C/11/33
http://lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi
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You will need to get the child's birth cert to find it.
We might need to do a bit more digging to get the right birth - but IF the middle initial A stands for Alfred, then this looks like it
Birth
Jul/Aug/Sep 1872
West Derby
8b 480
George Alfred Hall
(oooh, I see groom is one step ahead, and has found the Lancsbmd entry, I had forgotten about that)
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MArriage
Jul/Aug/Sep 1868
St Asaph (Denbighshire)
11b 502
George Hall / on same page Hannah Davies
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Possibly this marriage if Hannah was really just Ann although I don't think that covers where she says she was born in the 1871 census.
Marriages Jun 1870
Bourne Eliza Merthyr T 11a 532
Davies Ann Merthyr Tydfil 11a 532
Hall George Merthyr T. 11a 532
Protheroe Benjamin Merthyr T. 11a 532
Ignore that, Liz's is a much better one!
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Thanks ever so much - will follow up the DAVIES surname. Her son was George Alfred Hall b 1873.
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I've a feeling that she came from Abergele.
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Possible for second wife looking at the children's births, also from Lancashire BMD
HALL Winifred Alice Great Crosby South Sefton KNEEN C/26/324
HALL Marion Great Crosby South Sefton KNEEN C/24/420
HALL Ernest Kneen Great Crosby South Sefton KNEEN C/29/239
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And I have a feeling you know more about this family than you are letting on!!
How did you know that Hannah's son was George ALFRED Hall bn 1873, I thought we had only just discovered his existence and that was as George A Hall?
Why do you think Hannah came from Abergele? What info might you have that suggests this?
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Their marriage
Marriages Jun 1892
Hall George
Kneen Elizabeth Ann
W.Derby 8b 904
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This is definitely the second wife, Elizabeth Ann Kneen.
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Do you already have this information as you don't seem surprised with what we are giving you?
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I know that George Hall married Hannah ?, I don't know when. They had a son, George Alfred Hall.
I know George married Elizabeth Ann Kneen, but I don't know when he died.
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MArriage
Apr/May/Jun 1892
West Derby
8b 904
George Hall and Elizabeth Ann Kneen on same page
....but have you got this?
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We've now given you both marriages, but to know who their fathers were you need to buy the certificates from the GRO.
We know that George was alive in 1901, but we are not allowed to give information from the 1911, so you will need to look for yourself to see if he is still alive then. If he is, the problem is that George Hall is a common name, so his death may be difficult to find after that.
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OK - many thanks for your advice.
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If you are following any of his children, then you may find him recorded as "deceased" on a marriage cert, which will help you narrow down his year of death. Unfortunately it doesn't work the other way - ie if he is not specifically recorded as deceased it does not necessarily mean he is still alive!
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A possible death as they were in West Derby - from Freebmd
George Hall
Birth : abt 1846
Date of Registration: Mar 1917
Age at Death: 71
Registration district: West Derby Lancashire
Volume: 8b Page: 374
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Thanks again.
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Possible cemetery could be St Lukes Church, Crosby.
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That is the right death that groom found!!
Probate index entry
George Hall of 8 Murat Street Waterloo near Liverpool dairyman and provender dealer died 12 Feb 1917 Probate to Elizabeth Ann Hall widow
Effects £1389 19s 7d
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My grandparents could well have known the family, as they lived quite near to Murat Street. In Argo Road, Waterloo.
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Probate index entry
Elizabeth Ann Hall of 30 St Villiers Avenue Great Crosby widow died 2 July 1930 Probate to Marion Holmes (wife of Oswald Holmes) and Winifred ALice Wilson (wife of David Wilson)
Effects £4995 - 7s 10d Resworn £4796 11s
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Never thought of looking at probate details!
Could your family have known anything about the dairy?
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Never thought of looking at probate details!
It only became an option once we had a possible death year.
Too many George Halls otherwise!
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Probate index entry
Elizabeth Ann Hall of 30 St Villiers Avenue Great Crosby widow died 2 July 1930 Probate to Marion Holmes (wife of Oswald Holmes) and Winifred ALice Wilson (wife of David Wilson)
Effects £4995 - 7s 10d Resworn £4796 11s
Probably should be DE Villiers Avenue, Crosby.
I used to live in De Villiers Avenue, very close to number 30
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Well done Liz - another one solved ;)
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Agreed! My husband's family used to live in De Villiers Avenue.
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Probate index entry
Elizabeth Ann Hall of 30 St Villiers Avenue Great Crosby widow died 2 July 1930 Probate to Marion Holmes (wife of Oswald Holmes) and Winifred ALice Wilson (wife of David Wilson)
Effects £4995 - 7s 10d Resworn £4796 11s
Probably should be DE Villiers Avenue, Crosby.
I used to live in De Villiers Avenue, very close to number 30
You are right, it is De Villiers Ave
Somehow changed to St between me reading it and my fingers typing it!!!!!
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It's getting late!
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So , we have found HAnnah's maiden name, and we've found George's death. All we have failed on is a photo of the dairy (assuming he had a dairy, and didn't just keep cows for some else, and trade in hay etc aswell)
Did you look at googlemaps? Unless the road has been re-numbered, no 8 is a terraced house, but next door is numbered 8a, so maybe it used to be a larger house now divided?
Opposite on the other side of the road are garages - maybe that was fields in the days before everyone had a car, and thus was where the cows grazed, or maybe barns etc for hay storage.
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Murat street was very near the beach.
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George Hall was to be buried at St Luke's on February 14th 1917 per the death announcement in the Liverpool Echo on 13 February.
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Thank you - I know where St Luke's is......
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Opposite on the other side of the road are garages - maybe that was fields in the days before everyone had a car, and thus was where the cows grazed, or maybe barns etc for hay storage.
All those garages and garden walls on the other side of Murat Street belong to the big houses on Adelaide Terrace.
Looking at an old map it looks like there could have been some pasture land behind Murat Street, on the corner of Picton Road and Wellington Street, on the site now occupied by the Church of Christ.
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George Hall was to be buried at St Luke's on February 14th 1917 per the death announcement in the Liverpool Echo on 13 February.
If you visit the cemetery office, you could ask to see the register for that year, and then you could find the reference number of the plot he is in. Some of my family are in St Lukes Cemetery.
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Will do!