RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: to the bitter end on Wednesday 25 May 16 00:58 BST (UK)
-
Dear all,
I have a terrible concern relating to my fathers funeral which is very soon it is so bad for me i am making my self ill over the worry of this action, My mother stated that a person in our family (not immediate family) wishes to scatter some of her fathers ashes in to the grave when my fathers funeral is taking place, I have bluntly refused permission for this BUT i know the family member will try there best to do it anyway on the day and within the burial or shortly after, I am the soul named person on the grave deeds if this has any weight in stopping her legally, I know my mum does not want this to happen either as she has paid for a double plot for her and her only to rest by the side of my father when her time comes..... can anyone help please I'm sick of feeling this way
Kindest regards
T.T.B.E.
-
Firstly, sincere condolences on the passing of your Father.
I would strongly advise that you talk to the funeral director, and possibly your lawyer, as soon as you can. I'm sure you will be able to arrange something with them to prevent this person doing what she wants to. Especially if you feel that she's going to do it some way or another, during or after the funeral!
It's certainly not a nice thing to be happening, particularly as its expressly against your Mother's wishes, and since you are the sole person named on the grave deeds - that could carry some legal weight!
I hope and trust that you can get something sorted quickly, it's hard enough having to bury your father, let alone have this sort of thing being carried out by another family member!
Kind regards and fingers crossed for you
Jeanne 😀
-
Very sorry for the loss of your father.Having lost my own I know what a difficult time this is for you.
If the person is not of your immediate family, as you say. I would write them a polite letter saying they are not welcome at your fathers funeral, at the end of the day your fathers immediate family are far more important at a sad time like this. There are enough stresses at a funeral without someone rocking the boat. Maybe you could suggest she scatters her fathers ashes somewhere he loved.
Very best wishes.
-
Hi TTBE
You should have a conversation with the cemetery office where your father's funeral is taking place and alert them to this situation and also the officiant, I don't know whether this will be a priest, vicar or celebrant. But apart from asking the person not to attend as their presence would cause more upset at an already difficult time, there isn't much you can do.
During burials, the officiant will invite people around the grave to come forwards to pay their final respects and at this point flowers can be put into the grave along with the coffin. This would give the person mentioned the opportunity to do what you do not wish to happen.
There is also the possibility that after the family have left the burial, the person mentioned remains behind or comes back another time and puts ashes on top of the plot after it has been filled in. Unfortunately, once the cemetery gates are open, the staff there can't monitor every plot and you can't sit there day in and out to watch either.
I hope our replies have helped you to deal with this a bit better, a problem shared is a problem halved so they say, and by mentioning your problem to a group of unrelated people this might help you in some way and give you some ideas as to how to move forward.
-
I am very sorry that your mother and yourself are being put through this distress during your recent loss.
I would point blank refuse this persons request.
However if they do sneak back and do this after the funeral I think you both need to consider the old saying 'let go or be dragged'.
I really do wish we could all arrange the world acccording our desires but the reality is different.
We had some disputes at a funeral with step family/extended family but we muddled through and all made our peace on the day.
-
See a solicitor immediately - I am sure you would be able to get an immediate injunction against the person concerned. Whatever their perceived reasons, this is not an appropriate action for them to take and your solicitor must be able to prevent it. This is such an awful thing to be happening to you at such a bad time when you and your mother are at your most vulnerable and I sympathise deeply with you and your immediate family.
-
I too send my sincere condolences.
The day of the funeral is for the late person`s immediate family and no one has any right to put them under any more stress than they are already suffering.
You should be able to remember the day as it went for you not someone else.
A sad day but one where last wishes, family memories etc ought to be as positive as possible.
Refuse, make sure you know the legalities, speak to the person and make your wishes known, yours take precedence over theirs.
Having lost my husband quite recently I can tell you , the right music, lovely eulogy and good company after a that a funeral where all went to plan is a great comfort in the lonely times ahead.
You`ll regret it if you are not assertive.
I wonder if there is a law forbidding the scattering of ashes when that has not been legally
sanctioned.
I am truly sorry you have this added upset.I`ve never heard of such an insensitive crass thing in my life. Viktoria.
-
I also offer my condolences. What a very strange thing for the person to want to do - scatter some of her father's ashes into another person's grave, has she given you a valid reason as to why she wants to do this? I think you need to take legal advice as well as informing the undertaker and cemetery officials. They may have security who can be on hand if necessary.
-
Welcome to rootschat TTBE, and it is a shame that your first post is at such a sad time.
You have already had some excellent advice, but my first thought was the same as groom's - why on earth would this person want to do that? It seems to make no sense.
This may sound a bit odd, but is there any way you can get some people on side to tell this person that the funeral has been postponed for a day or two so they don't even show up?
Can you be forceful and offer an uiltimatum? Eg if you do this then, X will happen?
And lastly, but probably the first thing you should try is, have you personally asked this person calmly and logically in a reasonable manner, not do do this? Say it is not your, your mother or your father's wishes? Surely they will understand?
-
I too offer my sincere condolences. For someone to cause additional upset at such a difficult time is inexcusable.
I do hope that explaining yours & your mothers wishes is enough to deter this person, but if not it will be very difficult for them to scatter ashes into the grave unobtrusively unless they are carrying them loose in their pocket, which is unlikely.
At my mother's burial the cemetery workers were stood a respectful distance away but still close by, so you could perhaps notify the cemetery in advance and ask them to quietly step in front of anyone who tries to open a bag, jar, box etc near the graveside. Not ideal, I know, but better than you or a family member having to deal with it.
if your fathers grave is then covered immediately after the service, which I believe is normal, this would remove any opportunity to add anything after the service.
But if the very worst happens and the ashes are scattered, remember that they will not remain there. Wind, rain and nature will take care of that, and it will be your mother, and only your mother, who will rest by your father when the time comes.
-
But if the very worst happens and the ashes are scattered, remember that they will not remain there. Wind, rain and nature will take care of that, and it will be your mother, and only your mother, who will rest by your father when the time comes.
Nicely said Jomot.
I wonder if there is anything you could throw on top if the ashes if this person was to manage to scatter the ashes? Something to "destroy" the ashes? (Destroy is far too strong a word, and not what I mean, but I can't think of an appropriate word I'm sorry). I don't know - lime or something? Though that may not be appropriate. If all else fails, perhaps the threat of doing so might stop this person ....
-
Condolences on the passing of your father.
As others have said, you might be able to prevent it as the funeral occurs, but once it's over there may be no stopping it from happening. The only legal way I can see is for a court order, but that takes time and money.
Only a face to face discussion can get to the point of you understanding why they want to do this and them understanding why you don't want it to happen. Barring court action, you need to meet to talk it out.
How about suggesting a space adjacent to the grave if the cemetery people will allow it, perhaps where a headstone or plaque might go.
Good luck.
-
The bit that seems odd to me is the mention of scattering SOME of her father's ashes, almost as if she is spreading him around at different burials! In a way I could understand it more if she, for some reason wanted all of the ashes, or the urn, buried with him.
As it is a burial, you could always ask family members or friends to remain by the grave while it is filled in. Then if she does scatter the ashes it will only be on top, and as Jomot said, they won't stay there long.
-
If you spoke to the person who is upsetting you and said--which I am sure is the truth--that your father did not leave any instructions in his will about this , so you can be sure it was not something that had occurred to him especially given what you have told us about the arrangements already in place.You can safely conclude that he did not want it.
If he has not left a will he would have at least mentioned it had he been aware
of their intentions. You are going to do what you feel he would have wanted which is what your Mum has been settled to as you have explained to us.
You are not lying ,and you can add weight to your argument by saying what you have explained to us the plans all in hand so your Mum and Dad ,only they should be in those graves when her time comes.
Do it for your Dad and Mum.It is for eternity .Viktoria.
-
Could I suggest we stop posting as TTBE hasn't been online here since 02:17 yesterday and won't have seen any of our replies and suggestions.
Let's wait for their return before posting again.
-
Dear All,
Thank you for your words of support and help in this stressful matter, the Vicar is fully aware of the situation and so are several people who will be attending the burial, the Vicar will state in the church quite clearly that nothing will be placed within the burial apart from a rose from my mum, and again at the grave side the same will be stated clearly again, needless to say eyes will be upon her and any and all action will be taken against this family member......
What I do know after research is it's against the law to do what she wants to do with the ashes without the correct legal documentation AND my consent due to me been the soul 'deeds' holder for the plot. I will also have a calm word with this person very soon, and sadly your right she could come back any day after to do what she as asked to do, Unless caught I can do nothing and I will have to put that thought out of my head or I will go insane, I may come back and let you all now how the funeral went (if thats allowed).
Again i would like to say a big thank you to all.....
T.T.B.E
-
We would love to know how it goes and I for one wish you comfort in the presence of your family - apart from She Who Must be Watched - during the funeral/committal. This too shall pass and soon you'll be able to look back on your dad's life and smile at the wonderful memories.
-
I'm glad that things are starting to look more hopeful - she would have to be very brazen to go ahead with her plans on that day. As we've said, if she does decide to return to scatter the ashes, they will only be on the surface as it must be illegal to disturb a grave.
I hope that all goes well on the day, please do let us know.
-
Why not throw the situation back to her, with you or another family member saying that HER father would be horrified at such a suggestion. But perhaps it was just an off the cuff suggestion and she has accepted your refusal. I can fully appreciate your concerns though.
Best wishes and condolences,
Colin
-
Yes, very pleased for you that things are looking more secure for you and your Mum with the Vicar's announcements and others watching out. I'm sure this will give you and your family confidence that all will be well on the day, and you can celebrate your Dad's life with love and peace in just the way that your Mum and yourself have planned. May he Rest in Peace! 🌹🌹
Jeanne
-
Following on from Colin's suggestion - maybe you could ask another family member who you know she respects and gets along with to speak to her about not going ahead with her plan? (this would keep you from getting more upset if you were to speak to her and she insisted on doing this despite you asking her not to ..... I wish you all the best for the outcome you hope for.
-
Personally, I would Talk it over with the funeral director and let them deal with it. Any funeral director worth his/her salt will see their primary function as making the day go as smoothly as possible for the bereaved family. In my experience, they should be able to robustly explain the consequences to the party in question and there will likely be several of them available with little else to do at the time any disruption is likely to ocur.
-
There are now strict regulations about the disposal of ashes.
Ask the funeral director what the latest regulations are regarding scattering of ashes.
-
I agree , ask the funeral director to take possession of the ashes, and only release them to you.
Take care ,
-
I agree , ask the funeral director to take possession of the ashes, and only release them to you.
Take care ,
I don't think that is the case here, as it is a burial and it is the disposal of the ashes of a third party that were being discussed.
-
Why at a time when people's emotions are so raw, should all this be happening, surely the next of kin should have the last word, I don't know any other advice to give.
Take care
-
If you take a look back at reply 15 from T.T.B.E. - the legalities and other aspects appear to be sorted and all will be under the supervision of the Vicar, including the making of announcements, both in the service and at the graveside.
Others will be watching out on the day of the funeral, which must be quite soon now, if it hasn't already taken place. Things seem to be well in hand now. At the moment we can only trust at that everything went smoothly, and according to plan.
What an unecessary trial this has been for her and her mother! In her last post, TTBE also stated that she may come back and let us know how the funeral went, so perhaps for her sake, it might be best if we leave off our advice for now - and hope that she is able to tell us that indeed all was well on the day!
Jeanne
-
I agree , ask the funeral director to take possession of the ashes, and only release them to you.
Take care ,
My dad is getting buried ..... sorry i think you have misread my issue
-
Hi
sorry about that, I hope every thing sorts itself out.
take care
-
Hi
sorry about that, I hope every thing sorts itself out.
take care
its totally ok, thanks,
nick
-
Hi
Just checking how you are,
-
Hi
Just checking how you are,
I'm just about on top of all paperwork AND the funeral is next week due to the bank holiday
Kind regards
Nick
-
Thank you Nick, many people are thinking of you and your Mum and hoping the funeral is a peaceful loving service and interment which you will remember in the sad time ahead when things calm down and you are in reflective mood.
You have done your best and your Mum is proud of you I am sure and you have done what your Dad wanted . Well done.
Keep in touch because as you know there are lovely people on RootsChat.
We will be thinking of you. Viktoria.
-
Thank you Nick, many people are thinking of you and your Mum and hoping the funeral is a peaceful loving service and interment which you will remember in the sad time ahead when things calm down and you are in reflective mood.
You have done your best and your Mum is proud of you I am sure and you have done what your Dad wanted . Well done.
Keep in touch because as you know there are lovely people on RootsChat.
We will be thinking of you. Viktoria.
thank you
nick
-
These are for you Nick! 💐💐💐💐💐
-
I've not commented before but I do follow this thread and hope things get much better for you and your mum Nick. Take care and know that not all people are like your relative. xx
-
Hi all, thanks for your support through this sad time, The Funeral went as good as a funeral can go with no issues at all (many eyes watching said relative), excellent turn out and weather with a comforting gathering of family and friends.......
My father is now at rest with a beautiful view of sun rises and sun sets as i saw a stunning sunset from his grave when i went back at night just to check on him :) .
Many kind words were spoken in the service about my dad including a sort of poem written by me (this is totally unheard of me writing anything like this been an engineer) which I'm now wondering if i may post on here, I am no writer by any means
Again many thanks to all,
Nick
-
Thank you for coming back with the update.
Please feel free to post your poem.
-
I've been following the thread, I'm so pleased it went as well as it could do.
Please post the poem.
Frank.
-
What music did you have?
-
I am so pleased for you that all went well in the end...
-
I'm glad that everything went well, and there were no problems.
-
What music did you have?
The music in is not published yet as a family friend who is a musician (singer song writer) the song is titled 'life's too short'
The out music was a favourite of my dads 'The Great Escape'
-
The Great Escape Excellent.
-
Really happy that everything went well on the day, and that your family was able to farewell your father in peace, and in what sounds like a special burial location with the stunning views of sunrise and sunsets. Lovely. Thank you for initially taking that huge step of sharing your problem, and I will look forward to reading your poem.
Jeanne
-
I'm so glad there was no drama at such a sad time.
-
Been following the thread, so pleased it went as well as it could do in the circumstances.
Sandra
-
Many people on Rootschat have said such lovely things, I agree with all that has been said.
Please send the poem and don`t forget you now have a whole host of non judgemental supportive friends, you honoured us by trusting such a personal problem to us, make use of your friends in the time to come.
Very best wishes and- The great Escape---marvellous, absolutely blooming marvellous ;)
Viktoria.
-
Hi
so pleased everything went ok.
take care