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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => Topic started by: scatchardfamily on Sunday 22 May 16 23:59 BST (UK)
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Dear all
I have traced back to my GGG Grandmother, born Margaret Carr (b. Dec 1828 Blacktoft), whose second husband was called William McKenzie. These two married on 2 Dec 1848 in Howden and William died in Sep 1852. He was the son of John McKenzie.
That's all I know about this McKenzie family. I am wondering where on earth they popped up from? Can anybody know? I have no experience of Scots genealogy so would not know where to take this from here, if that is what we are dealing with...
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A couple of thoughts on this:
First, 20 seemed quite young to me for a second marriage, though not impossible, and on looking at the register image, I see Margaret is recorded as a spinster, and her father has the same surname. Also, the register gives her a being of full age (21 or over), so are you sure you have the right birth?
As for William, what does the 1851 census say about his place of birth? And 1841 if you can trace that? Ages will also be important. I see he's a blacksmith, which is a fairly settled occupation, but his father was a sailor. One possible scenario is that McKenzie senior came from Scotland and worked up and down the east coast, eventually settling in Yorkshire, but you'd have to see if you can find him in any Yorkshire records. An alternative is that William was born in Scotland and decided to move to Yorkshire - but the census should help to answer that.
There are lots of possibilities in all of this, so it's important to work steadily backwards, and find out as much as you possibly can in Yorkshire/England before launching into Scottish records.
For what it's worth, I have found a MacKenzie in another part of Yorkshire, some years earlier than this. He was born in Falkirk, spent 20+ years in the Royal Horse Artillery, then became a servant to a clergyman in Yorkshire, where he met and married my relative.
Arthur
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Many thanks indeed. I have Margaret Carr as bapt Blacktoft 16 Dec 1828. The 1851 gives her age as 23. She is recorded as a spinster on her marriage to William McKenzie because her two prior children (Faith and Hope) appear to have been born out of wedlock.
I cannot find Margaret in the 1841 census so perhaps someone can help?
I shall now try to find William McKenzie working backwards...
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Erm, not having any success here. Anyone care to help?
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I've had a look for Margaret and also can't seem to find her
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I keep going back to the William McKenzie aged 25 born Beverley, Yorkshire who was a prisoner in Nether Nutsford, Cheshire in 1851 census (OK I know it states he was unmarried) . His occupation was a Last Maker. Now, lasts were made in wood and also cast iron, which leads me to his occupation of Blacksmith on his marriage. I just can`t get a handle on him before or after. What was his occupation on his death certificate as his death in 1852 appears to have been registered in the district of Beverley which seems quite a coincidence.
Mo
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A tree on Ancestry has William as the Beverley-born man as posted by mosiefish.
It also points out that the 1851 census entry has a tick in the last column - whether blind or deaf-and-dumb.
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This William is Hull not Beverley?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J7Q3-R8Z
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It also points out that the 1851 census entry has a tick in the last column - whether blind or deaf-and-dumb.
These ticks were added at a later date when the information from the census was being collated - In this case they were adding all the people up that weren`t born in the County.
Mo
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This is all extremely helpful – many thanks indeed.
The scenario looks very likely – William in a house of correction in 1851 – since his wife is listed as a lodger in another man's household (later to be her second husband, Mark Nutbrown!).
William goes off to house of correction – but why on earth in Knutsford?!
So working backwards now – where is he from – what's his line and is it Scottish?
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I should also add that on my GG Grandmother's marriage certificate, William McKenzie is listed as a Whitesmith. I wonder if that has any bearing on being connected to making lasts?
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Hi, a "Whitesmith" was a term used to describe a "Tinsmith," and, or, a person who forged things from tin or pewter while a "Blacksmith forged things from iron.
Frank. :)
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So, do these two William McKenzies seem like they could be the same people?
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I am wondering whether we can possibly get any further with this person?
I have produced here a full "report" as per my program, in case we are missing anything:
Name: William McKenzie
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Death Date: bef 3 Oct 1852
Occupation: blacksmith (1848, 1850), whitesmith (1867)1,2,3
Father: John McKenzie
Spouses
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1: Margaret Carr
Birth Date: ca 16 Dec 1828
Birth Place: Blacktoft, Yorkshire, England
Bapt Date: 16 Dec 18284
Bapt Place: Holy Trinity, Blacktoft, Yorkshire, England
Bapt Memo: IGI has 1827 and 1828
Census Date: 6 Jun 1841
Census Memo: TO FIND.
Census Date: 30 Mar 18515
Census Place: Hailgate, Howden, Yorkshire, England
Census Memo: Margaret McKenzie. Housekeeper in residence of NUTBROWN, has her 2 children with her.
Census Date: 7 Apr 18616
Census Place: Applegate, Howden, Yorkshire, England
Census Memo: Living with husband Mark Nutbrown
Census Date: 2 Apr 18717
Census Place: Howden, Yorkshire, England
Census Memo: Living with husband Mark Nutbrown
Census Date: 3 Apr 18818
Census Place: 1 Dock Street, Goole, Yorkshire, England
Census Memo: Widow
Census Date: 5 Apr 18919
Census Place: 1 Dock Street, Goole, Yorkshire, England
Census Memo: Widow, son George with her
Death Date: 11 Mar 189910,11
Death Place: Union Workhouse, Goole, Yorkshire, England
Occupation: housekeeper (1851)5
Father: Joseph Carr (ca1786-1875)
Mother: Sarah Smith (ca1789-ca1864)
Marr Date: 2 Dec 184812,13
Marr Place: St Peter & St Paul, Howden, Yorkshire, England
Children: William (ca1850-1924)
Notes for William McKenzie
Best guess for death: GRO deaths (William Mackenzie): Sep 1852 Beverley 9d 74
Sources
1. http://mv.ancestry.co.uk/viewer/ecdf9a5f-3774-440a-9450-12031106e277/29901956/12506663219
2. Certified Copy of an Entry of Marriage (2 Jun 1867: Charles Collings & Hope Carr MacKenzie), issued 1 Jul 2002.
3. http://mv.ancestry.co.uk/viewer/d5b61e2d-677e-47a0-ae71-68b836eea85b/29901956/12507026888
4. IGI, www.familysearch.org.
5. 1851 England Census: HO107/2358, f.273, p.16
6. 1861 England Census: RG9/3564, f.15, p.24
7. 1871 England Census: RG10/4763, f.45, p.28
8. 1881 England Census: RG11/4701, f.82 p. 29
9. 1891 England Census: RG12/3872, f. 79, p. 12
10. GRO deaths (Margaret Rogers): Mar 1899 Goole 9c 500 age: 71
11. http://mv.ancestry.co.uk/viewer/36a8a30b-d280-4266-bebc-6938df479af3/29901956/12306731695
12. GRO marriages (William McKenzie & Margaret Carr): Dec 1848 Howden 23 118
13. http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fyorkshire%2fmar%2f201823940%2f1
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Last Modified: 10 Feb 2017
Created: 22 Feb 2017
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With apologies, just bumping this thread. It seems a remarkable name to have in the depths of Yorkshire - I'd love to know where this guy came from.
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The GRO have put their revamped indexes online since you first posted, so I've just checked for William Mackenzie's death in 1852. It gives his age as 0, so he can't be yours.
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Good point.