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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: Grisel on Friday 20 May 16 18:41 BST (UK)
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Hello,
Does anyone know where I can get info on the Rev. Robert Hogg, born approx. 1710. He died in Roxburgh in 1787, I believe. I think he married Mary Hume. They had six children.
I can't find a birth/baptism for him. Does anyone know who his parents were?
Any help greatly appreciated.
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If he was a minister of the Church of Scotland there will be some biographical information about him in the Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae, the multi-volume biographical dictionary of kirk ministers since the Reformation. It's available to browse online.
Harry
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The only Robert Hogg born at about the right time in Roxburghshire was baptised on 18th November 1711 in Jedburgh to James Hogg, deacon of the weavers. John Hogg and William Hogg, weavers, were witnesses.
A James Hogg was married at Stitchill & Hume in 1695 but he was a wright, not a weaver.
Harry
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Thanks, hdw.
I had seen that birth in Jedburgh before, I was just wondering if anyone had any way to confirm that it was right or not. There is a couple births in Roxburgh a few years earlier that are also possibilities. I was hoping for a way to avoid just 'guessing'.
Nothing is coming up on Ancestry when I search the Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae. Maybe he wasn't Church of Scotland :(
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The Fasti says he was a native of the parish of Roxburgh; licensed 5-12-1732; presented and ordained 11-6-1735; died 2-2-1781 in his 77th year; married Mary Home 31-12-1743 (she died 8-3-1810); details are given about the following children - Isobel, Alexander, Elizabeth, Charlotte, Mary, Christian and Veronica.
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Where did you find that?? :o
I know it's sometimes hard to find things using Ancestry search... I wanted to browse, but I couldn't see what synod Roxburghshire would be in.
Could you give a volume/page# so I could look at it if it's online?
Thanks!
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Volume 2 Synods of Merse and Teviotdale.
http://www.dwalker.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Map.htm
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Blackwood's Magazine, Vol 10 (page 489) has a register of marriages and deaths that contains the following entry for 1st Oct 1821:
"At Bellaberta, in the county of Berwick, Miss Veronica Hogg, youngest daughter of the late Rev Robert Hogg, minister of Roxburgh, aged 63."
So she would have been born in about 1758. Too much of a coincidence surely?
Added: Just found this - http://www.roxburgh.bordernet.co.uk/history/ministers.html
Ian
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I have just had a very quick look at ScotlandPeople. All the births to Robert Hogg and Mary Hume come up if you do a search on the spelling 'Hog'. There are also several possibilities for Robert Hog.
Ian
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Yes, I do have the births for all the children. And the death for Vair/Veronica. But I was more worrying about heading the other way - finding a birth for Robert. Now that I have his age from the Fasti, the births in Roxburgh look better: 1705 parents Alexander & Bessie, or 1708 parents William & Bessie.
The copy of the Fasti Ecclesiae on Ancestry doesn't have all the info that GR2 can see. I don't see all the children mentioned - just three of his daughters. Are there different versions/publication dates out there?
Great to have suggestions and help from everyone!
I have been googling all day and never found that list of ministers that Ian has pointed out.
Several sets of eyes are better than one!
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If you click on the link in my last post and look at page 87 of volume two, you'll get the details of his children and their marriages.
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Thanks for pointing that out GR2 - I'll have a look at it. That should help a lot.
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Robert HOGG's gravestone reads:
'Sacred to the memory of the Revd Robert Hogg late Minister of the Gospel in Roxburgh who died 2.2.1781 in the 77th year of his age and the 46th of his Ministry also his daughter Christian Hogg who died at Sunlaws Hill 4.8.1834 aged 79 years.'
My dog-walk will probably take me past the church on Friday, so I can take a photo if you like.
His daughter Charlotte's MI:
'Sacred to the memory of Charlotte Brown who departed this life 22.11.1836 aged 85(?) years relict of William Brown Esq. and third daughter of the Revd Robert Hogg.'
Another interesting plaque (possibly erected by the Revd Robert Hogg to commemorate his ancestors?) reads:
'Here lyes a family of the name of Hogg that has resided in this parish as heretofor more than 600 years as old records do attest were portioners both in Upper and Neither Roxburgh until about 1725. Here lyes William Hogg portioner and Jean Seaton his spouse. John Hogg portioner and Varona Ker his spouse. Alexander Hogg and Betty Mein his spouse'.
Is he naming the three previous generations, I wonder, the most recent being his parents, Alexander and Bessie?
Regards,
Lesley
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Answering my own question in previous post-
Alexander HOG and Bessie MEIN were married 27th April 1702 in Roxburgh. They christened 9 children there:
John 24.11.1702, Vair 12.3.1704, Robert 30.12.1705, William 22.2.1708, Alexander 7.1.1711, Barbarie 1.10.1712, Agnes 6.2.1715, Bessie 10.3.1717 and Andrew 14.6.1719.
Going back one generation, I can't see a marriage for John Hog and Vair KER but they christened children at Roxburgh from 1660:
Thomas 13.2.1660, William 24.6.1661, Johne 30.7.1662, Robert 4.12.1665, Jean 9.1.1668, Andro 15.8.1669,Christina 14.9.1671, Alexander 31.1.1676, Andrew 23.6.1677.
William Hog and Jean SEATON were married in Kelso on 4th September 1608. They christened an un-named child in September 1625 at Roxburgh, but Roxburgh baptismal registers only begin in 1624, so any previous children they christened are unrecorded.
regards,
Lesley
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That's amazing, Lesley. I was just looking at the transcription of the "three-generation" plaque again today, and it had only just occurred to me that that's what it might be. The dates certainly line up, don't they? I am glad you pointed out that the birth records only began in 1624, because I was wondering if they had only had one child, or just hadn't registered any others.
I would be really pleased to see photos of those stones - I just have a transcription off someone's family website.
I am wondering if Vair/Vairona Ker was a daughter of Sir Thomas Ker that lived in the area at that time. Vair seems to be a name that is in the Ker family; several of Vair's Hogg descendents used it as well.
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You may well be right, Grisel, about Vair Ker. Sir Thomas Ker of Redden married Jean Ker, daughter of James Ker of Chatto, and Ancestry indicates that Sir Thomas Ker and Jeane Ker had a daughter called Vair, baptised at Sprouston, Roxburgh on 11 August 1636. Johne Hog married Wair Ker at Kelso on 7th Feb 1659.
Ian
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I would agree that Vair Ker appears to be the daughter of Sir Thomas Ker of Redden (who was knighted at Dunfermline in 1633). Burke's (1898) says that Thomas of Redden was the son of William Ker of Ancrum by Margaret daughter of Alexander Dundas of Fingask.
Grisel, I will send you a PM with my email address so I can get yours, to be able to send photos without Rootschat's size restrictionRegards,
Lesley
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Yes, I think it makes sense. Glad others agree!
Broken another brick wall :)
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Glad you've sorted it, Grisel. William Ker of Ancram is my 1st cousin, 14 times removed.
Ian
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The William that died in 1590?
He's my 10th great grandfather
:)
Wonder how many great10 grandchildren he has now?
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Yes, that's right. I gather William was murdered by his nephew, Sir Robert Ker of Cessford (later 1st Earl of Roxburghe) in 1590. William's aunt, Janet Ker, was my 13th g-grandmother by her first marriage, which was to George Turnbull.
And I reckon the great10-grandchildren must run into the hundreds, if not thousands
Ian
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I'm guessing thousands would be a good estimate! I have seen a chart that showed possible # of ancestors in each generation. I think on the 10th great grandparent level, the number was something over 4,000. I suppose the numbers would be similar if you turned it around, maybe even more?!
Have you ever read of or traced a link between the Roxburghshire Kers and the Kers of Samuelston, in East Lothian? I was researching another branch of the family who were ag labs in that part of the country and ran across references to a George Ker and daughter Nicholas who owned land in and around Samuelston.
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Reviving this old thread.
The previous links are broken now so here is a current link to the Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae.
https://archive.org/details/fastiecclesisc02scot/page/86/mode/2up?q=hog

I have been looking at Robert Hogg’s son Alexander and I think the Fasti may be wrong with the date of death. I would love to hear other peoples thoughts on this.
I am looking at this Alexander buried in Roxburgh:
Sacred to the memory of ALEXANDER HOGG formerly tenant in
Homebank who died 30.8.1823 in the 78th year of his age and ISABELLA
YOUNG his spouse died 2.5.1819 aged 70 years also ARCHIBALD HOGG
their son died 28.12.1802 aged 14 years also ANDREW HOGG who died
in infancy also ELISABETH HOGG their daughter died 25.9.1832 aged 55
years also ROBERT HOGG their son died 15.10.1833 aged 62 years also
ANDREW HOGG their son died at Birgam 9.3.1838 aged 17 years also
HELEN HOGG their daughter died at Elwartlaw 5.6.1847 aged 61 years
also MARY HOGG their daughter died 9.9.1848 aged 72 years also
ALEXANDER HOGG their fourth son who died at Elwartlaw 26.1.1851
aged 70 years.
Reverse: Also in memory of JOHN HOGG son of the said parents who
died at Elwartlaw 3.3.1858 aged 75 years and ISABELLA HOGG who
died at Greenlaw 20.6.1863 aged 68 years.
Alexander Hog and Isabella Young had the following children.
Robert - Kersmains 22/06/1771
William - Kersmains 20/02/1773
Mary - Kersmains 31/03/1775
Betty - Kersmains 22/12/1776
Alexander - Kersmains 04/11/1778
Alexander - Kersmains 21/10/1780
John - Kersmains 26/02/1783
Andrew - Kersmains 05/01/1785
Archibald - Kersmains 13/10/1788
Isabel - Kersmains 15/11/1795
Christian - Kersmains 23/08/1802
I think the last two are probably not Alexander’s and likely concealed illegitimacy of either Mary or Betty or both but anyway.
The reasons I am thinking Rev Robert Hogg may be this Alexander’s father is Alexander’s children mostly died in Berwickshire but were buried in Roxburgh, this suggests a family connection to me and the names of his children. His first son is named Robert, his first daughter Mary. The pattern is slightly out from the traditional naming convention but Alexander Hog and Bessie Mein (Robert’s parents) followed the same pattern when naming their children.
Questions for people who know the graveyard well. How close are the gravestones, is this in the same area as Rev Robert Hogg and his father Alexander? Is this a family plot? Is there another Alexander Hogg buried in Roxburgh that ties-in with the Fasti date of 1774? And finally, how likely is the Fasti to be wrong? Was there a revised edition with corrections?
Many thanks for your help and for the work previously on this thread.
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Hi
I'm not sure of the whereabouts of the grave of Alexander and family, but Robert Hogg's memorial and the plaque presumed to name his parents, grandparents and great-grandparents are both on the wall of the church.
I can't comment on the accuracy of the Fasti, though other dates given for this family appear to be corroborated on the gravestones.
Lesley
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Thank you. Great to see the photos.
I’d initially rejected Rev Robert as the father because of the Fasti record but questioning it, and looking again, I think there is a strong possibility there may be an error. It’s a niggling thought I’d like to prove one way or the other.
I think if Rev Robert’s son Alexander died before Robert I would expect an inscription to him in the Kirkyard, especially as Robert is the Reverend there. Finding such an inscription would settle my Fasti doubts.
The dates line up depending on the inscription interpretation.
Rev Robert’s Alexander was born 11 May 1746 (indexed as 13th on SP).
The Homebank Alexander died on 30 August 1823.
Working out the age between the two gives me 77 years 3 months and 19 days to be exact.
Now it’s all about how “in the 78th year of his age” is interpreted.
While searching, I see the Roxburgh Parish Church is up for sale.
https://www.churchofscotland.org.uk/about-us/property-and-church-buildings/properties-for-sale/properties/churches-and-halls/roxburgh_church2
Offers around £85,000. Some really nice photos. I have never visited but feel strangely connected from pouring through the records and I'm sad to see it on the market.
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Hi
I walked to the kirk this morning (it's 'under offer', by the way.)
Significantly, Alexander's stone is right next to the Hogg family plaque which we supposed (see earlier postings in this thread) to commemorate Rev. Robert's parents, grandparents and great-grandparents.
Rev. Robert's memorial is at the opposite end of the wall.
I would agree that there is likely an error in the Fasti. Someone who has had their 77th birthday is then in the 78th year of their age, so the dates fit perfectly for Homebank Alexander (is that the Homebank near Birgham?).
(See separate post for close-up photo of grave- too big for one post.)
Lesley
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Close-up of Alexander Hogg's stone- I can confirm that the dates are '1823' and '78th year of his age'.
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That’s amazing Lesley. Thank you so much for the photos. Wonderful to see.
Homebank is next to Birgham, yes.
That would certainly be my interpretation of “in the 78th year of his age” but I always have to pause and think for a moment.
The family seem to be connected to Elwartlaw next to Greenlaw, Homebank near Birgham and Kersmains north of Roxburgh. I see from Scotlands Places the family were paying horse tax and also Alexander paid Clock and Watch tax at Homebank in 1797-1798.
Thanks again for the photos, it certainly adds weight to the Fasti being incorrect on the date of death.
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And while we’re having a bit of a language discussion.
Here is the death notice for Homebank Alexander’s son Alexander in 1851.
I confuse myself every time I read it trying to work out if ‘tenant of Homebank’ refers to the father or son.
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I think I would plump for Alexander senior being the former tenant of Homebank.
Your William Hogg 1809 of Kelso married Mary of Roxburgh, as far as I can gather from your posts. What was Mary's surname before marriage?
Lesley
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Mary Waldie
In 1861 William and Mary were living in Kersmains.
I know William’s parents were Andrew Hogg and Elizabeth Davidson. The Andrew is a bit of a mystery. I’ve been exploring other Hogg’s in the area to see where he could maybe fit in and focusing on the areas I know they lived.
One candidate is Alexander’s son Andrew who was born January 1785 at Kersmains. Elizabeth (Betty) Davidson was born October 1782.
The names of William’s and his sister Elizabeth’s children do contain an Isabel, Alexander and Robert - but so do most of the families at that time! Alexander’s Andrew died in 1838 which fits in with my line.
I don’t think this Andrew is the right one but I did spend some time exploring the possibility. I haven’t eliminated him completely but my Andrew is described as a Farm Steward and Land Steward on the death certificates of William and Elizabeth and Alexander’s Andrew was tenant at Birgham Haugh, I also have his will (well the inventory) and only his brother is named.
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You are correct in picking on Andrew son of Alexander. There is a slight misunderstanding on Alexander's gravestone, where the age of Andrew at death is incorrect. Alexander was the son of William Hogg and Bettie Dickson baptised at Roxburgh 27th Jan 1745.
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I think you could very well be right. I think this William is Rev Robert Hogg’s brother born in 1708.
The fasti says Alexander the son of Robert Hogg was born 11th May 1746 and dies 14th of June 1774.
Crucially, there is a William Hogg who dies in Kersmains 18/12/1791 (Old Parish Registers Deaths 803/ 10 295 Roxburgh)
The entry reads: William Hogg, father to Alexander Hogg late tenant in Kersmains.
I believe this is indeed the William Hogg who married Bettie Dickson.
Alexander Hogg and Bettie Dickson have two recorded children:
Bettie Hogg - born 21 April 1743
Alexander Hogg - born 27 January 1745
The monumental inscription gives a date of death as 30.8.1823 and says in the 78th year of his age.
If this Andrew is the son of William and Bettie, then he would be 78 years and 7 months at the time of death. It’s not far out at all.
The following children are born at Kersmains with only the father Alexander recorded:
Robert - Kersmains 22/06/1771
William - Kersmains 20/02/1773
Mary - Kersmains 31/03/1775
Betty - Kersmains 22/12/1776
Alexander - Kersmains 04/11/1778
Alexander - Kersmains 21/10/1780
John - Kersmains 26/02/1783
Andrew - Kersmains 05/01/1785
Archibald - Kersmains 13/10/1788
Isabel - Kersmains 15/11/1795
Christian - Kersmains 23/08/1802
The naming of the first child as Robert niggles me. This seems to fit better for Alexander the son Robert and Mary however, the naming pattern has variations in this line. Rev. Robert Hogg’s parents Alexander Hogg and Bessie Mein name their first son for the father’s father and first daughter for the father’s mother. Rev. Robert’s grandparents Johne Hogg and Vair Ker name their first son for the mother’s father and first daughter for the mother’s mother. I think this was done out of respect for the status of the mother’s father - Wair Ker daughter of Thomas Ker Knight of Redden. I’m not really sure who Bettie Dickson’s parents were.
There is a marriage of an Alexander Hogg to an Isabel Young in 1772 Ednam - 788/ 10 250 but that would mean either Robert is illegitimate, it’s not the right Alexander (could he be the son of Rev. Robert's Alexander?) or the marriage entry is not the right one. I know Alexander is recorded as the 'fourth son' on the Kelso Chronicle entry in 1851.
We can also track Alexander from Kersmains to Homebank on the tax rolls.
1788 Alexander Hogg and Andrew Hogg Carsmains
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/horse-tax-rolls-1785-1798/horse-tax-volume-10/122
1789 Alexander Hogg and Andrew Hogg Carsmains
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/horse-tax-rolls-1785-1798/horse-tax-volume-13/132
1790 horse tax Alexander Homebank
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/horse-tax-rolls-1785-1798/horse-tax-volume-17/45
1791 horse tax Alexander Homebank
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/horse-tax-rolls-1785-1798/horse-tax-volume-20/54
1792 horse tax Alexander Homebank
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/horse-tax-rolls-1785-1798/horse-tax-volume-23/54
1794 horse tax Alexander Homebank
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/horse-tax-rolls-1785-1798/horse-tax-volume-26/57
1797 horse tax Alexander Homebank
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/horse-tax-rolls-1785-1798/horse-tax-volume-29/43
1797 watch tax Alexander Homebank
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/clock-and-watch-tax-rolls-1797-1798/clock-and-watch-tax-volume-1/39
So this Alexander goes from Kersmains to Homebank around 1790. He is still having children at Kersmains though - Isabel and Christian.
Isabel (Isabella) died 1863 Greenlaw - and the parents are recorded as Alexander Hogg and Isabella Young.
Another interesting Kersmains connection is John Hogg who died in 1858 - the death certificate interestingly say the father Alexander -Kersmains. I did wonder why it says Kersmains and not Homebank here. I thought maybe there were two Alexanders and this was a way to differentiate but the mother is also recorded as Isabel Young.
The date of death of on the MI, the children’s names and the proximity of Alexander’s headstone to his father are what causes me to question it. I don’t see any mortcloth accounts in 1774 (Roxburgh kirk session, Minutes (1722-1746, 1753-1760), Accounts (1722-1780), CH2/314/2 p477) but perhaps the family had their own. There also doesn’t appear to be a surviving headstone for Andrew in 1774.
But really I’m not sure if that is enough to say the Fasti is wrong when there is evidence to suggest William is the father of Alexander and because of the proximity to the family plot in Roxburgh we can probably deduce that William is indeed the brother of Robert.
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where the age of Andrew at death is incorrect.
I read your message again and realise that you were referring to the ‘aged 17 years’ transcription. It’s recorded like this in the BFHS Roxburgh monumental inscriptions book. But Yes, it’s clear a mistake has been made - he can’t have been born after his mother died. I haven’t seen the headstone in person and I can’t make it out from the photos posted.
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One thing that has always intrigued and tantalised me is the inscription that is assumed to be erected by Rev Robert Hogg:
“Here lyes a family of the name of Hogg that has resided in this parish as heretofor more than 600 years as old records do attest”
I am very curious to what ‘old records’ this refers. The earliest reference to Hoggs in Roxburgh I found was in Scottish Arms, A Collection of Armorial Bearings A.D. 1370-1678 (1881)
https://archive.org/details/scottisharmsbein02stoduoft/page/248/mode/2up
It records the following:
Scottish Arms A Collection of Armorial Bearings A.D. 1370-1678 (1881)
P 248-249
Hog . L .; most of the M S S .make the boars'heads armed or.
Henry de Hoga held lands in Berwickshire c. 1250 ; Salomon del Hoga left a daughter and heir, Emma, mother of John de Granthain, who made a grant from his lands at Berwick to the monks of Kelso c. 1270 ; Adam, son of Henry de Hoga,c.1280.
In 1296 Henry Hogge, of the county of Roxburgh, and John Hog, burgess of Edinburgh, swore fealty to Edward I.; Robert, burgess of Edinburgh 1332 ; Roger, burgess of Edinburgh 1359-64, was a con spicuous person, and acted as deputy-accountant 1360; he had several charters of lands, tenements, and annual-rents in Edinburgh and Haddington in the reign of David II., married Margaret Hog ,who married, secondly, John de Peblys, and left a son, John Hog, living 1373. 1379,November 12, the castle of Berwick was taken by Hog, Lydzetwod, and their companions.
1406, James Hog, scutifer ; 1425, Gilbert, armiger ; and 1444, James of Halyden, armiger, all connected with Roxburghshire.
William of Vigourshaugh, co. Roxburgh , was a vassal of the Earl Marischal for lands in Upper Keith before 1480 ; he is probably identical with William Hog, son of Margaret Turnbull, Lady Hop Pringle, who has a suit in 1490 ; about the same time lived Christian, wife of John Craig of that Ilk, and John, Abbot of Culross 1490, who settled lands on Isobel Hog, and her husband, Alexander Hamilton of Grange, and was dead in 1494
The Hogs of Vigourshaugh, latterly styled of Doucott, continued closely connected with the Marischal family, and Monan Hog acted as Marischal-Depute in 1568 ; John , last of Vigourshaugh, was dead in 1647, when his sister, Elizabeth, had inherited that place, Doucott, and Braidyards.
A son of the family is said to have had a grant of Bleridryne, in the Mearns, from the Earl Marischal, in the reign of James V .; Monan of Bleridryne married, before 1584, Katherine Carnegie, niece of Sir John Carnegie of Kinnaird ; James of Bleridryne registered arms 1693 - argent, three boars' heads erased azure armed and langued or distilling drops of blood gules.
Of this family were the Hogs who possessed Raemoir for several generations, 1690-1800. Mr William Hog, minister of Ayton 1601-16, was father of Mr William of Bogend, advocate 1641, whose eldest son, Roger of Harcarse and Bogend, advocate, registeredarms 1672-argent,threeboars'heads erased azure armed or ;represented Berwickshire in parliament, was Senator of the College of Justice 1677, was knighted, had his lands united and erected into a barony 1681, and died in 1700 ; his son, William of Harcarse, was father of Andrew of Harcarse, who died in 1772. Captain William Hog, merchant in Edinburgh, brother of Lord Harcarse,was father of John of Cammo and Ladykirk, who registered arms 1736, with a crescent for difference; his elder son,John, sold the estates, married Barbara, daughter of Sir Christopher Musgrave, Bart., and died in 1744, leaving four daughters ; in 1783 his brother, Roger of Newliston, registered arms without difference, and was allowed supporters, two boars proper.
John Hog was appointed Bute Pursuivant 1675, and died 1704.
Does anyone have any other sources or any other ideas what records this inscription refers to?
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There is a marriage of an Alexander Hogg to an Isabel Young in 1772 Ednam - 788/ 10 250 but that would mean either Robert is illegitimate, it’s not the right Alexander (could he be the son of Rev. Robert's Alexander?) or the marriage entry is not the right one. I know Alexander is recorded as the 'fourth son' on the Kelso Chronicle entry in 1851.
Robert was illegitimate - See the Ednam Kirk Session records, but unfortunately the Roxburgh records for the time are missing.
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Great find Tom.
That tidies that up nicely for me.
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/virtual-volumes/volume-images?image=105&source=way-pointing&volume=CH2/841/2&volume_info=Ednam%20kirk%20session&volume_short_desc=Minutes%20%281770-1792%29%20and%20Accounts%20%281702-1791%29%0D%0A&record_id=6042&rex_uid=REX00888&related_places=GAZ00503&placename=Ednam
Ednam kirk session, Minutes (1770-1792) and Accounts (1702-1791), CH2/841/2
Page 105
Ednam 3rd November 1771
Isabel Young single unmarried woman in this Parish being summoned to this Diet compeared and acknowledged that she had brought forth a child in uncleanliness about the latter end of June last, being interrogated who was the father of the child, answered that Alexander Hog tenant in Kersmains in the Parish of Roxburgh was the father. Being further interrogated when the guilt was committed answered at Kermsmains in the said parish. She was rebuked for her sin and exhorted to serious repentance. The sessions considering that this affair belongs to the session of Roxburgh ordered her confession to be transferred* to the said session.
And then the sederunt was closed with prayer.
*Looks like transifutted to me - not sure of this word.
A real shame there are no records for Roxburgh at this time.
Are you connected to this line? I wonder if you have taken a DNA test? I would be very interested to see if we connect.
Thanks for clearing this up. Much appreciated.
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It is probably 'transmitted' but I'll have a look.
It ties Robert up correctly, but at the other end of that generation is a 'daughter' Christian born in 1802, from her 'mother's' age on the gravestone it is unlikely that Christian was Isabella's daughter, so I wonder if anyone can help explain. Is she actually the daughter of another Alexander Hogg? Does anyone know what happened to her?
I have several connections to the Hogg/Hog families. A DNA test is on its way!
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You are right about transmitted - I was confused by the looping 's' from session on the line above. Anyway.
I didn't find anything for Christian, not sure what happened to her. I do suspect concealed illegitimacy. Alexander was tenant in Homebank at the time of her birth - only a distance of around 9 miles on a modern map. Her birth entry does have something scored out after the entry but I can't read it. There is a marriage of a Christian Hogg and Thomas Thomson in 1828 Kelso which fits nicely age wise. Not looked at the actual certificate though and I couldn't find this couple on the census in 1841. I couldn't find a death certificate for her either.
I'm also curious about the Andrew who appears on the horse tax roles with Alexander in 1788/89.
An Andrew with the parents William and Elspeth would fit for my elusive 5x great grandfather. My Andrew also vouches for an Anne Dickson in the Kelso Kirk sessions - but I don't think he would go from paying horse tax to being a farm servant in 1809 and this Andrew would also possibly be too old, but I am still drawn to this family for some reason.
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I also wonder why in both the newspaper obituary and on the gravestone Alexander son of Alexander and Isabella is referred to as their fourth son, or is their another son in the early years of their marriage?
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I just realised I made a mistake with the listing of the children’s names and I’d copied and pasted it wrong again later in the thread.
It should be Andrew not Alexander.
So the following:
Robert - Kersmains 22/06/1771
William - Kersmains 20/02/1773
Mary - Kersmains 31/03/1775
Betty - Kersmains 22/12/1776
Andrew - Kersmains 04/11/1778
Alexander - Kersmains 21/10/1780
John - Kersmains 26/02/1783
Andrew - Kersmains 05/01/1785
Archibald - Kersmains 13/10/1788
Isabel - Kersmains 15/11/1795
Christian - Kersmains 23/08/1802
So the Andrew born 1778 probably died around 1784 and they named their next son Andrew as well.
On the MI it says:
also ANDREW HOGG who died in infancy.
So Alexander would be the 4th son:
1st - Robert - 1771
2nd - William - 1773
3rd - Andrew- Kersmains 1778
4th - Alexander - 1780
5th - John - 1783
6th - Andrew - 1785
7th - Archibald - 1788
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I didn't have William so now that does make Alexander the fourth. You seem to have lost Helen born 1786 though.
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One other question on the Rev. Robert Hogg's ancestry is his mother Bessie Mein. There are two possible identities for this person. The one I would favour is the daughter of Robert Mein and Barbara Ker born in 1676 and baptised in Roxburgh. This would mean that Bessie was about 26 when she married Alexander Hogg in 1702. The names of all four parents appear high up in the list of Hogg children. Also given the Ker connection in this case.
The other Bessie Mein is born in 1684 to parents John Mein and Alison Mason at Kelso, and would have been 18 in 1702. Her mother's name Alison does not appear in the naming of her children and the name John could come from Alexander Hogg's father John Hogg.
For these reasons I would favour the Bessie born in Roxburgh in 1676.
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You’re right, I missed Helen out. She is in the tree I have. I was actually recording Kersmains references and Helen’s birth record does not seem to be here.
I’m more inclined to go for Robert Mein and Barbara Ker because Johne and Vair name one of their daughters Barbarie. I have nothing else to back this up.
I do have the Testament and Inventory of an Alexander Hogg who died in Newtoune in 1687. It mentions a Robert Mein and also ‘John Hogg portioner of Rox’ (later in the text ‘other portioner of Rox’) - and under that it says ‘Hogg his brother’. I’m having a hard time reading it but I think it does contain a lot of information on the family. Perhaps it’s a post for the deciphering page but it does run two pages of quite dense text.
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Yes, you are absolutely right that the Testament of Alexander (1687) is very hard work! So are those of Robert (1683) and John (1698), both portioners in Roxburgh. That of John (1698) Hog seems to be Johne married to Vair Ker.
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Hello Tomhutton and DudelsackHogg
I have found your threads regarding the Hoggs in Roxburgh. I am descended from the Janet Leggat nee Hogg the sister of Thomas Hogg of Roxburgh who was tried for murder in 1851.
The wealth of information you have unearthed about the Hog/Hogg family is amazing and it has been an absolute pleasure to read it.
I started my research in 1989 but got stuck at my 4xGtGrandmother Janet Leggat (mother Hogg) as her married life was all in Edinburgh but she died before the 1851 census could tell me where she originated from. Traces of her husband and children pretty much disappear by 1851. It was only fairly recently when I found what I thought might be her daughter Elizabeth Leggat on her own age 12 in the 1851 census at The Boathouse at Roxburgh and that she was still there in 1861 under her married name Laing that progress was made. Last week I happened to check who else lived at The Boathouse in 1861 to find Thomas Hogg and then the whole line has just opened with all the info in ScotlandsPeople for this parish and all that great info you and other contributors have added on this website.
I am still piecing together my Hog/Hogg line and so far have got back to 4.7.1694 at Roxburgh when William Hog and Bessie Jameson married as I seem to descend from one of their children. I can see there are more Hog/Hoggs further back too in the parish records, stones in the churchyard etc. I hope to make some further progress here as there seem to be some potentially very interesting links for the family further back according to this thread.
I can see that you mention three Hog/Hogg Wills in the late 1600s - Robert 1683, John 1698 and Alexander 1687. Would it be possible for you to upload links to them if you have them so I can check their contents? I can see them in the ScotlandsPeople so can access them there if need be. I understand they may be difficult reading but other lines of mine have included Wills in the 17th and 16th Centuries so that is something I should be okay with - perhaps I can share my transcripts of them back to you if that would assist you.
Anyway….enough for now. Keep up the good work.
All the best
Steve
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Hi Steve,
I am very happy to share the documents and certificates I’ve collected. I’ll send you a pm. I think you may have to post some more to be able to respond privately.
Were you able to confirm Janet and Thomas’s grandfather Hendrie is the son of William Hog and Bessie Jamison?
There are two surviving records for a Hendrie that fit:
HOG HENDRIE
WILLIAM HOG/ELIZABETH OGLE FR121 (FR121) M 19/07/1719
803
10 / 196
ROXBURGH
And:
HOG HENDRIE
WILLIAM HOG/BESSIE JAMISON FR132 (FR132) M 12/04/1724
803
10 / 207
I never found anything to back up either.
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Hi
I have had the same question as to which Hendry Hog married Margaret Hog in Roxburgh in 1747 - the one bapt 1719 or 1724. I think it is the latter as I have been through the Roxburgh Kirk Sessions which has lists of communicants for many consecutive years in this period which show family groupings and the years in which children reach an age to be listed by name. I have checked 1722, 1723, 1724, 1725, 1730, 1731, 1736, 1741, 1742, 1743, 1744, 1745, 1746 and 1753. Hendrie first appears in 1743 with or near his likely elder brother Alex+wife at Newtoune. He is not in the 1744 list and is in the 1745 list but not adjacent to other useful names. However in the 1746 list Hendry Hog is immediately named under William Hog, Bessie Jamieson and John Hog at Nether Roxburgh, so these are very likely his parents and his next oldest brother John. By 1753 he is listed as Henry Hogg and wife but now in Hietoune separate from John Hogg and Bessie Jameson who are still next to each other in Nether Roxburgh, William presumably having died.
The other family that had a Hendrie Hog bapt in 1719 don’t seem to appear in the lists at all so perhaps they moved elsewhere.
These lists are a good way of following the Hog families, not just William/Bessie Jamieson but Alexander/Bessie (Mein) too with the children of both appearing with them pretty much in the order that they are baptised in the parish register. From these records it looks very likely that Alex Hog who married Vair Hog in 1724 was the son of William and Bessie (Jamieson), Vair being the daughter of Alexander and Bessie (Mein).
The line looks a bit shakier further back as there are 3 Williams bapt in the town between 1660 and 1675 so I am hoping those Wills referred to might have a clue.
Thanks for the offer of a PM but I don't know what a PM is….or where it would appear (you are right - this is only my 2nd posting).
Regards. Steve.
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A PM is a personal message. There is a link on the rootschat homepage at the top of the page next to your username which should display any personal messages. You can also click on my messages and it will direct you to your rootschat inbox. I sent you a message with my email address so that I could forward you documents.
I like the reasoning and your thought process of Henry’s parents and think it’s a quite logical conclusion. I do remember seeing a Henry in the list of communicants. I need to revisit those Kirk Sessions with fresh eyes as it’s been a while since I last looked at them.
The Vair name does appear to come into the Hogg line from Vair Ker - the daughter of Sir Thomas Kerr. It’s possible to follow this line quite far back.
Attaching an extract of the Landed Gentry:
For your info (and anyone else following) the Scotland’s People indexing of the wills mentioned previously is as follows:
HOGE, JOHN
22 / 11 / 1698
PORTIONER IN ROXBURGH
TESTAMENT DATIVE AND INVENTORY
PEEBLES COMMISSARY COURT
CC18/3/1
HOG, ROB[E]RT
2 / 2 / 1683
PORTIONER OF ROXBURGH
TESTAMENT DATIVE AND INVENTORY
PEEBLES COMMISSARY COURT
CC18/3/1
HOGG, ALEXANDER
29 / 4 / 1687
IN NEWTOUNE
TESTAMENT TESTAMENTAR AND INVENTORY
PEEBLES COMMISSARY COURT
CC18/3/1
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Thank you both for reviving this thread. I find it interesting and informative. :)
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I've been trying to so some work on the descendants of Robert Hogg. One of his daughters was called Charlotte Hogg. She married a William Brown, whose dates I found online as 1761-1810. Their son (Robert Hogg's grandson) was Captain Sir Samuel Brown of Netherbyres KH FRSE (1776 – 1852). Samuel had a sister called Charlotte (1782-1858). This is all well and good, but I've not been able to find any information out about William Brown or his daughter Charlotte. I know from another source that Samuel was paying the rent on Leavervale, a house near Earlston, in the 1820s in support of his mother. I suspect that the family had lived at Leaverdale for sometime before the 1820s, but I'm hitting a brick wall in terms of finding the key information. It would help if I knew something more about William Brown. Has anyone on here done any work on William (and the younger Charlotte as well)? Thank you.
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According to Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae William Brown was a merchant in London. See screenshot.
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Not looked William Brown but the birthdate you found looks a little off.
Here’s what I have on Charlet:
Born 23rd July 1750 - Fasti
Christened 30th July 1750 803 10/248 Roxburgh
Married 1773 Fast + Roxburgh kirk session, Minutes (1722-1746, 1753-1760), Accounts (1722-1780), CH2/314/2 Page 159 attached.
Died 1836 – Monumental inscription in Roxburgh:
'Sacred to the memory of Charlotte Brown who departed this life 22.11.1836 aged 85(?) years relict of William Brown Esq. and third daughter of the Revd Robert Hogg.'
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I believe that William Brown originated from Borland in Galloway. I did some research on him a year or two back, so I'll look it up.
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The Charlotte who was born in 1750 is the same one who married William Brown. The Charlotte Brown that I am interested in is their daughter, hence why the dates are off.
Any help you can give me with William Brown or his daughter Charlotte would be greatly appreciated.
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Not looked William Brown but the birthdate you found looks a little off.
It does indeed. William Brown and Charlotte Hogg were married in 1773, when William Brown must have been at least 14 years old, therefore he cannot have been born as late as 1761.
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My notes say that William was the son of Samuel Brown and Nicola Murdoch of Minnigaff, Kirkcudbright and was baptised 14th March 1738.