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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: BillR on Friday 13 May 16 09:56 BST (UK)
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I am researching my late Father's numerous wartime letters to his mother. The first billet from which he writes in December 1941 is in Kirkby, Notts. In early 1942 he is moved to Lenton's Cafe Billet, Alfreton, Derbyshire; also to Claycross, Derbyshire; Quernmore Park, Caton, Lancaster and Okeover Hall, Ashbourne, Derbyshire amongst other places before being posted overseas in early 1943. Does anyone have any information on these specific military bases or photographs that I might be able to include in my project? My Dad was in the RASC initially but was transferred to the RAOC where he remained for the rest of the War. As far as I can tell, he drove supply trucks and military vehicles until released in January 1946. Any assistance will be much appreciated.
BillR
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Do you know his service number?
What date did he transfer to the new corps.
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Do you know what factories may have been in those areas where he was billeted? They may have been collecting manufactured products from factories and delivering them to a stores depot.
A large part of the RASC was POL, that is Petrol Oil and Lubricants.
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Welcome to rootschat BillR.
I do not think that a "billet" and an "army base" were the same thing.
A billet was generally a property taken over by the military, with room or rooms allocated for troops and the residents having to accomodate them. I may be wrong with this, but I thought that an army base was a purpose built facility with training, accomodation etc.
Have you googled the addresses?
Added: i found a couple of them via a google search.
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Have you applied for a copy of his service record? I think the cost is £30. Here's some useful information:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=651361.0
Nanny Jan
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Thanks to ScouseBoy, Ruskie and Nanny Jan for your response to my query. My Father's service number was 10677110. In the first year of his Army service his number was prefixed with a "T", which I assume meant he was in training. He transferred to the RAOC in September 1942.
I don't have any information about the places where he was based, or what he was doing, except I know that he was in Ramsgate at a driver training school in March / April 1942. The purpose of my project is to try and piece together from his letters what he was doing during the War. He didn't talk much about the War, and I didn't think to ask!
I've not applied for my Dad's service record. All I have is his start and end dates. Is this likely to tell me about where was stationed at home and overseas?
Your point regarding the difference between a billet and an Army base is well made. The Lenton's Cafe Billet at Alfreton is clearly accommodation only. I've googled the addresses only in so far as to find them on the map. Coming from the north east of Scotland, my knowledge of these areas is very limited. Perhaps I need to spend a week in England seeking them out!
Thanks again
BillR
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Prefix "T" for RASC is likely to mean Transport.
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I attempted to do something similar with my father in law's personal diaries. It is not easy especially if, like me, your knowledge of army terminology is non existent.
The service records should help you as everything is in chronological order. Cost is about £30 and the wait is currently two or three months. It won't tell you where he is billeted but using the dates from your letters it should help you piece his movements together. If you apply tell them about the T prefix for his service number - I don't know if it would be significant to them in looking for his records, but my thinking is that it is better to provide too much information that not enough.
Here is the link to the forms to print in case you haven't found them yet:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/210233/request_service_details_NOK_pt1_v6.pdf
Good luck. Please pop back and let us know how you get on. :)
Added: just aguess but might the T prefix denote territorial? I have a list of prefixes for WW1 but have not found one for WW2 yet.
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Thanks again ScouseBoy and Ruskie. Applying for my Dad's service record seems like a good plan. I will make an application and report back when it is to hand. Your assistance is much appreciated.
BillR
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In the RASC T for Transport
(S for Supply)
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Thanks For this. The "T" prefix remained with his service number for a full year then was dropped even though he transferred to the RAOC in September 1942.
BillR
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You initially said:
Prefix "T" for RASC is likely to mean Transport.
Which I thought was a guess. Then you said:
In the RASC T for Transport
Which implies that this is a fact.
Can you provide a link to an official list of prefixes?
As I said, I found one for WW1 but not WW2 so it would be good to have a link to one as it might come in useful.
(By the way there were a number of T prefixes for WW1 service numbers.)
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My dad was in RASC his service number was 147733.
I have read the prefix info on other threads on Rootschat.
I have just checked in a book with a list of soldiers names and numbers, there are prefixes "S" and "T" only for RASC men. Source is a book called "The forgotten tragedy" the story of the sinking of the Lancastria.
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I wasn't questioning the service number, it was the prefix I was interested in.
Thanks for the name of the book but I was hoping you could provide an online reference, which is obviously more accessible, and which I could add to my 'favourites'.
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Prefixes from 1920 onwards
http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/Royal_Army_Service_Corps
http://www.1914-1918.net/prefixes.html
Milly
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Thanks Milly.
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Although the discussion about the prefixes T and S has got away from my original line of enquiry, it is nevertheless intriguing, especially since my Dad's service number contained the T prefix only for the first twelve months of his Army service, during which time he was both in the RASC and the RAOC.
BillR
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I now have my Dad's service record. As far as his service in the UK is concerned, the record confirms he was based / billeted in - Alfreton, East Kirkby, Clay Cross, Field (Kent), Rochdale, Quernmore Park (Caton) and Okeover Hall (near Ashbourne).
I know where he was in the last three mentioned places, but not specifically in Alfreton, East Kirkby, or Clay Cross. As I would like to visit these places, does anyone know how I might find out this information.
As for his overseas service, I can deduce the countries he served in, but the service record is non-specific about places. Does anyone know whether the War Diaries at Kew provide this kind of detail?
BillR
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Does the record show him "embarked for overseas" At Liverpool or Glasgow (Greenock) then after several weeks arrival at "Port Tewfik" or Bombay.
Did he get the Africa Star
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Thanks Ruskie.
I've extracted most of the entries from my Dad's Service Record - see below. It shows he embarked for Deolali. I've listed the medals awarded. Although he served in North Africa, he didn't get a medal. I guess he was either not there long enough, or at the wrong time, or both.
Where I would like to get to with this is to identify the places where he was based overseas. Advice on how to do this would be appreciated. Comments are also invited on any aspect of his Service Record. I've numbered the entries for ease of reference.
Thanks
BillR
War Medal 1939/45
1939-45 Star
Italy Star
Defence Medal
(1) 15 VRD Embarked for service overseas w.e.f. 18/1/43 - Deolali - 26/3/43
(2) 15 VRD Disembarked Bombay w.e.f. 19/3/43
(3) 15 VRD Embarked Bombay w.e.f. 1/4/43
(4) 15 VRD Disembarked Basra w.e.f. 11/4/43
(5) 15 VRD To ME & SOS PAIForce 13/5/43
(6) 15 VRD Moved from PAIForce & TDS - ME 14/5/43
(7) 15 Veh Coy TOS from C Park 15 VRD 18/5/43
(8) 515 SOS / RAOC / ME to BNAF 11/10/43
(9) 574 Veh Co TOS from 515 Vey Co - N. Africa 13/1043
(10) 38 Veh Co TOS from 574 - N. Africa 26/3/44
(11) 38 Veh Co SOS to x2 - C.M.F. 8/11/44
(12) 38 Veh Co TOS from x2 - C.M.F. 28/11/44
(13) Reclassified Scale D. IA rates of pay 11/12/44
(14) WOAS on 12/4/45 going against oncoming traffic in a one way road. Deprived of 3 days pay. PBE43.
(15) 28 days leave to UK to 310 t/c - C.M.F. 13/7/45
(16) Embarked 25/7/45
(17) Ceases to draw Head Allow. 23/7/45
(18) 38 Veh Co Returned from leave in UK - C.M.F. 3/9/45
(19) 38 Veh Co Entitled to Head Allow - CM.F. 28/8/45
(20) Medically examined AF. 3/49 - C.M.F. 3/12/45
(21) X8A TOS Assembly Centre from C.M.F. 15/12/45
(22) X8A C.M.F.to UK18/12/45
(23) Class B Release
On a different page a record of my Dad's service is shown, which is a summary of the above.
(24) Embarked for Persia Iraq 18/1/43
(25) Disembarked PAIForce 11/4/43
(26) GHGRECH PAIForce to M.E. & SOS PAIForce 13/5/43
(27) To N/Africa rd ME 11/10/43 [scored out]
(28) deleted / 3588 / 43 GHQ 2nd ECH ME (STET)
(29) 65 Trans camp Leave in UK 27/7/45 - 24/8/45
(30) 65 Trans Camp CTSA expiration leave LIAP 25/8/45
(31) Proceeded on terminal leave 31/12/45
(32) Service for Gratuity 4/20
(33) Removed from "Y" list having been released under Class B Bulk and relegated to Class W (T) Reserve WEF 21 Jan 46
Service At Home and Overseas
(34) Home - 11/12/41 to 17/1/43 - 1 year 38 days
(35) O/Seas Persia Iraq 18/1/43 to 10/10/43 - 266 days
(36) Africa 11/10/43 to 20/12/45 - 2 years 71 days
(37) Home 21/12/45 to 20/1/46 - 31 days
Total - 4 years 41 days.
The above summary is inaccurate in that it lumps my Dad's service in the ME in with Africa.
On another page is recorded with a note of his leave -
(38) 'E' Veh Coy B.O.D 26/3/44
(39) XII List 8/11/44
(40) 38 Veh Coy 26/11/44
On another page is the following -
(41) "B" Coy 11/12/41
(42) "D" Coy 8/1/42
(43) "HQTH " Coy 26/2/42
(44) 43 Div Sup 10/3/42
(45) 43 Div TPS 30/6/42
(46) Depot Coy to Mob Centre 28/7/42
(47) 'C' Pk. VRD 31/7/42
(48) n/r 15 VRD 13/8/42
(49) Trans. RAOC 1/10/42
(50) 15 VRD Persia Iraq 15/1/43
(51) Disembarked PAI 11/4/43
(52) To ME PAI SOS 13/5/43
(53) "C" Pk 15 VRD 14/5/43
(54) 15 Veh Coy 18/5/43
(55) SOS M.E.F. To RNAF 11/10/43 ) Deleted
(56) 515 Veh Coy 11/10/43. ) Deleted
(57) Amended to M.E.F. 574 Vey Coy 11/10/43
(58) 574 Veh Coy 13/10/43
(59) 'E' Vey Coy B.O.D. 26/3/44
(60) XII List 8/11/44
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Egypt was classified as Middle East
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There was a Transit Camp at Deolali
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My mother was in the ATS and spent her war at Chilwell, Nottingham, an army camp not too far from Lenton. There is still a small army camp there now called Chetwynd Barracks which has recently come under a closure review and is one of those to be closed down shortly.
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....and Deolali Transit Camp was the origins of the term Doolally (or Doolally Tap) as in "Go Doolally - or go a bit crazy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doolally
Milly
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....and Deolali Transit Camp was the origins of the term Doolally (or Doolally Tap) as in "Go Doolally - or go a bit crazy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doolally
Milly
Because there was a psychiatric hospital in the town.
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Interesting the he had the Italy Star but no mention of it in the list of locations, but he did not have the Africa Star?
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Probably because the eligibility dates for service in Italy included dates after the end date for service in the Africa Star geographic area.
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One of the set-off points for the assault on Sicily, Italy et al was Tunisia, North Africa. There's mention in the quoted record of Egypt too, and Alexandria was another departure point iirc.
The record doesn't seem to mention anything about being part of the landings in Sicily, Italy or whatever but there has to be something in there which warranted the awarding of the Italy Star. Perhaps even being part of the supply chain for the military in North Africa heading for Italy would have qualified him?
As far as being entitled to the Africa Star, the gentleman would have had to have taken part in the North African Campaign June 1940- May1943 which according to the above record he did not do, arriving there some time in 1944.
RRTB
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Thanks for your latest contributions. From my Dad's service record it looks like he was in North Africa from October 1943. As far as I know he drove military machines and equipment in convoy between Libya and Egypt through the desert and was away for a month at a time - two weeks to get there and two weeks back. As far as Italy is concerned he spent most of the war there - starting in Sicily and zigzagging his way up north. He was demobbed in January 1946. I am now trying to obtain copies of his various Unit's war diaries to establish exactly where he was.
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the criteria for award of the Africa Star was service in North Africa between 10th June 1940 and 12th May 1943
(even for one day in that period)