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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: maggbill on Tuesday 10 May 16 11:14 BST (UK)
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Am researching "Mary Joseph Carrig(g)" - also later known as May Carrigg, teacher, linked with Adelaide South Australia, but also very closely linked with Far North SA - Blinman in particular.
Have Certificate of Title info which tells me that she is listed in 1911 as "Mary Joseph Carrigg married woman" - then in 1927 she changes her name to "May Carrigg, spinster". Have also found lots of other info, she taught in various schools, and owned property in Woodville Park, Blinman, Largs Bay etc. I have also found a possible death for a "May Carrigg, Cheltenham Cemetery, 1973" age 78 - which could be her?
My question is what is the logic of changing name - not surname, but only first name? Could have been divorced - as she calls herself spinster thereafter? Is Carrigg her married name / has she another maiden name? Have found a possible birth Mary Carrigg in Lyndhurst Siding in Far North in 1894 - ?? not her if "Carrigg" is married name.
I am a total newbie with South Aust. records - but would be glad of any advice on this.
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Birth
CARRIG May
13 May 1894
Father Michial [sic] Mother Mary RYDER
At Lyndhurst Siding Fro 543/426
Michael, Mary and daughters May and Josephine [DAVIES] are all buried at Cheltenham cemetery.
http://www.aca.sa.gov.au/Records
Mary's death notice and I think May be 'Molly".
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article92348879
Could the Title be for Mary, May's mother?
I can't find a teaching record for May CARRIG/G here
http://www.library.unisa.edu.au/condon/teachers/
However I notice she is mentioned a number of times on TROVE.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/
Also a number of mentions for Michael CARRIGG, storekeeper at Lyndhurst.
Cando
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Michael's death notice in 1928
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article90417370
Cando
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http://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-databases.html
Advertiser death notices
CARRIGG May 1973
You have the date of her death from the Cheltenham Cemetery database so I would contact the Ask a Librarian Service at the State Library of South Australia and request a copy of that notice. SAGenealogy charge for a copy.
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=387
Scroll down the page to an online request form.
Cando
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Wow Cando,
Well, what can I say - you have solved the basic mystery I had - with what should have been a simple solution... the mother is the original name on the Certificate of Title, and she passes it on to "May" the daughter, teacher.. in 1927.. I still haven't looked at all the info you have found - will do it now... but I just had to reply straight away and say "Thank You" !!! And so much other info about the family. I had found a few "snippets" but you have just managed to find so much - Experience shows!! A million thanks!! Will be off to check it all out! Maggs
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Still mulling over lots of this information.
It had not dawned on me for a minute that the early Land Title deeds naming "Mary Joseph Carrigg" - and then "May Carrigg" were in fact mother and daughter. So after the original "Transfer" information naming new owner as "Mary Joseph Carrigg" ( dated 1921) - when I read "The above name Mary Joseph Carrigg is altered to May Carrigg" (dated 1927)... I presumed that it was the one person just changing her name !! - not the mother handing the Title deeds over to the daughter!! Not sure if I am explaining this well - the father of the family (who is never mentioned on the Land Title) doesn't die till 1928 and the mother Mary Joseph Carrigg lived till 1936. So it would have nothing to do with "estate settlement". Would it have been normal for the mother to officially hand over the title in this way? I thought it would only happen after death.
It is amazing just how much info you can glean from Land Title deeds in South Australia. https://www.sailis.sa.gov.au (South Aust Integrated Land Information System) - Helpful website - Could have used such a resource for my Scottish records - only thing is I don't think that my Scottish ancestors ever owned property - poor labourers!!
Great info Cando - have heard back from State Library - very quick - only thing is that there is conflicting evidence that the younger May Carrigg died in 1973, but was buried in Centennial Park (according to austcemindex website) - not at Cheltenham Cemetery as per SA Genealogical Soc databases) - They failed to find any Advertiser newspaper ads re her death...
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I don't see any conflicting information.
https://www.centennialpark.org/deceased-search/deceased-search.html
May CARRIG formerly of Felixstow died 27 Feb 1973 and was cremated 1 Mar 1973.
Josephina DAVIES died 24 Jul 1979 and was cremated 26 Jul 1979.
http://www.aca.sa.gov.au/Records
May CARRIG formerly of Felixstow died 27 Feb 1973 aged 78 years and her cremated remains are located at Cheltenham Cemetery, Rose Garden-Woodstock Street, Sub Section 1, Garden 1, Site 23, Cremation Memorial.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hm7/
Interred at the same location is Josephina DAVIES formerly of Felixstow who died 24 Jul 1979 aged 92 years.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hm8/
Funeral Notice with given name Josephine
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/savill/savill-D.html
According to the Savill Index at the State Library of SA there is no funeral notice for May but I doubt SAGenealogy would have her name in their death notices index if there wasn't one.
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/savill/savill-C.html
http://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-databases.html
Advertiser death notices
CARRIGG May 1973
I suggest you ask SLSA again mentioning the spelling variation or alternatively pay for the SAGenealogy notice.
I can't see why you are so concerned about the land transfer to the daughter. Doesn't have to be result of an estate distribution. Have you considered it was transferred to avoid death duties applicable to deceased estates in South Australia until 31 Dec 1979. I'm not au fait with the stamp duty which may have been applicable in that era.
Cheers :)
Cando
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Hi Cando,
Thanks so much again for your input and help. To explain my particular interest in the Land Title/Transfer issue - well it is a long story. I live in the old house owned by Mary and her daughter May - and first learned of them through two old lady friends who used to come to this house for music lessons (from May) around the 1930's. As I have lots of "Carrigans" in my Tree - the name Carrigg also interested me - (but they are not in any way connected to me family wise).
I love this old house - and had a yearning to learn a bit more about its early days - and in the process, to learn a little bit about South Australian records. I have lived in SA for more than 50 years, but must admit that I am quite bereft of historical local knowledge. So doing this research has shown me a very interesting story of an old family (possible of Irish origin?) - who started off in the Far North of SA - what amazing stories of "pioneer times"... And then ended up living (and dying) in this very house. I started off learning a bit about them through the Land Title info - but as I said was totally bereft of knowledge of the Land systems here.... your suggestion about avoiding death duties sounds like the perfect explanation for the transfer...
And you have even given me the details of May and her family grave in Cheltenham Cemetery. I will make a point of visiting the gravesite at some time soon, and pay my respects to the previous residents of this well loved old house!
Your knowledge has been most helpful - and I should also try to find out if there are any relevant "Carrig" family trees online - might be interested in all this info.
I hope I haven't been a bit weird researching all this stuff when not related to me - but it has been and is a very enjoyable and educational process.
Cheers
Maggs
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According to the Savill Index at the State Library of SA there is no funeral notice for May but I doubt SAGenealogy would have her name in their death notices index if there wasn't one.
This might happen if at the end of a death notice it is stated that the deceased has been privately cremated. I've seen a few instances where this has occurred and not been picked up by Savill.
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Thanks for your input Spike!!
Maggs
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I wouldn't expect the Savill indexers to read the death notices when indexing the funeral notices.
SLSA couldn't find a death notice for May.
Cando :)
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Maggs I think your home was built post 1911. When did Mary CARRIG/G purchase the home?
Cando
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Hi Cando,
Mary Joseph Carrigg purchased the property from an Edmund Maurice Kennedy in 1921, but I have a certificate of title dated 1914, where it appears that Edmund sold a portion of the land to a Margaret Germain. I find these old documents fascinating, but also not easy to understand. A basic question - I expected there to be somewhere a description of the actual dwelling - inasmuch as I really don't know when the house was built... the Titles only give details of the land??
I have also found a Title of a property which Mary Joseph bought in Blinman in 1911 - and it shows the original details of owner in 1891... I found the introductory wording amazing... It reads "Know all men by these presents that I the Right Honourable Algernon Hawkins Thomond Earl of Kintore, Lord Falconer of Dalkerton Lord Keith of Inverurie a Member of her Majestys Most Honourable Privy Council, Knight Grand Cross of the most Distinguished Order of St. Michael and St. George, Governor and Commander in Chief in and over the Province of South Australia....." What pomp and ceremony!! By the time I get through all the introduction, my brain sort of closes down on the technicalities of the actual property!!
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LOL do you think he fancied his title a little bit - that's hilarious
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Hello,
I am a member of the Friends of Cheltenham Cemetery and have requested a photo of May Carrig's grave/site - if there is one and they get back to me I will post it for you.
Cheers,
Jillian
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LOL do you think he fancied his title a little bit - that's hilarious
May I ask why you think that? That was his title as he was Governor of South Australia.
Algernon Hawkins Thomond Keith-Falconer, 9th Earl of Kintore (1852–1930) was governor of South Australia from 1889 to 1895. Edinburgh-born and Eton and Cambridge-educated, he succeeded his father as Earl of Kintore in 1880 and held positions at court and in the House of Lords before being appointed to the South Australian post. Kintore is said to have been the first South Australian governor to travel extensively in the colony, and among the various journeys he made was a trip from Darwin to Adelaide following the route of the overland telegraph line in 1891. On returning to England in 1895, he resumed his post of lord-in-waiting to Queen Victoria and served in the same role under Edward VII until 1905. He was deputy-speaker of the House of Lords from 1913.
Cando
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Hello,
I am a member of the Friends of Cheltenham Cemetery and have requested a photo of May Carrig's grave/site - if there is one and they get back to me I will post it for you.
Cheers,
Jillian
According to this database there is no headstone. I think I would have checked when doing the research for Magsbill
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~deadsearch/cheltenham_ac.htm
Cando
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Perhaps there is a plaque in the Rose Garden however the contributor to Find A Grave hasn't mentioned a marker but from earlier in the thread.
http://www.aca.sa.gov.au/Records
May CARRIG formerly of Felixstow died 27 Feb 1973 aged 78 years and her cremated remains are located at Cheltenham Cemetery, Rose Garden-Woodstock Street, Sub Section 1, Garden 1, Site 23, Cremation Memorial.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hm7/
Cando
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I have been a member of the Cheltenham Cemetery for some time now and they have always been extremely helpful in sending me photos of graves of relatives there - if there is a marker for May Carrig which to me looks like there may be because it states a site no. then they will get back to me in the near future - if there isn't one there anymore then they will advise me accordingly, i will let you know either way - fingers crossed there is something for you to see.
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$14 for a deceased request :o
http://headstones.gravesecrets.net/cheltenham.html
Thank goodness there are people in SA who try to help with photos of headstones especially those that have been removed due to leases expiring.
Cando
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Hi Cando and Jillianstella,
thanks very much to both of you, for your continued interest. Having lived in this house for the past 25 years, I have always loved it - and although it is a basic Australian house of its age, nothing flash (but has a lovely deep front verandah - great for the Aussie sun) - it has such character about it, and that is one of the reasons I started investigating the history of it - in particular the Carrig - and Far North of South Australia connection. Whether the genealogy is one's own, or even not family connected, I just love learning about "Life as it was".
We do not own the house, it is owned by "Housing SA" - "Housing Commission" as it would be in other parts of Australia. In recent discussion with Housing SA I have learned that in fact the house was built in 1921 - a wee bit later than I thought. And what really distresses me, is that as with all Government Departments - there is a plan for the future of the house. "Renewal of Streets and Suburbs" dictates that at some time in the future (?5-10 years) - the house will be demolished and "New" accommodation will be built. Oh how sad - it will be replaced most likely with a modern minimalist concrete block. And will the new real estate last 100 years, and still be in good nick? I very much doubt it. Mind you, I think they will have to carry me from this house, kicking and screaming!! And if it happens, I will have to make a definite visit to Cheltenham Cemetery to let May Carrig know, that it was well loved while it lasted!
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I'm so sorry, should have realized you meant a cemetery in S.A. but didn't know there was a Cheltenham there too - I thought you meant that May was buried in Victoria at Cheltenham Cemetery where I am a member. They just got back to me that they searched for her and were unable to find any trace of her, now i know why....so sorry for the confusion and that i am unable to help with a photo :(
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Hi Jillianstella,
No worries - sorry for the confusion.. interesting - here in Australia there are so many places named after English/London places... Cheltenham/Kensington/.... etc. etc. And when I think of it.. in other places too... I remember finding info on a distant ancestor - married in "London,Middlesex".. things didn't seem to connect.. and finally realised it was "London" in Canada!!!! Thanks for your interest and input to this story - much appreciated.