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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: MusterScriver on Wednesday 04 May 16 09:54 BST (UK)

Title: Scottish soldiers in the Swedish army 1611
Post by: MusterScriver on Wednesday 04 May 16 09:54 BST (UK)

Hello,

Can anyone help deciphering the last names of two reformed ensigns in captain Spence's company 1611?

4th line:  2 reformert fendrich Breane ?. Herre? ?.

Regards,
Matt

Title: Re: Scottish soldiers in the Swedish army 1611
Post by: philipsearching on Wednesday 04 May 16 10:35 BST (UK)

I am reasonably sure the first one is Briant
The second one could be Mirrans

Title: Re: Scottish soldiers in the Swedish army 1611
Post by: MusterScriver on Wednesday 04 May 16 19:38 BST (UK)

Thanks, philipsearching.

What about the following four soldiers of gentle?:
The second one looks like "Thomas Barnet", but the others are too difficult for a newbie in reading secretary hand.

Regards,
Matt

Title: Re: Scottish soldiers in the Swedish army 1611
Post by: horselydown86 on Thursday 05 May 16 03:53 BST (UK)

The last three soldiers are:

Thomas barnit
James Pen
george Sneyle (although the two dots on the line make me less sure about the final part of the word)

The first is something close to:  Thomas Segsworthe (or maybe Seysworthe)

However there is an extra letter or something else going on between the s and the orthe which I can't resolve.

In the first extract I would suggest Breane rather than Briant for the first name.

As I see it, the letters of the second name resolve to:  Netraie

Title: Re: Scottish soldiers in the Swedish army 1611
Post by: MusterScriver on Thursday 05 May 16 20:29 BST (UK)

Thank you, horselydown86.

The second reformed ensign added in different hand after Breane Netraie looks like Herre Bedel or something like that. Later in the roll there is a Henrij Bedell. Could it be the same last name?

Regards,
Matt

Title: Re: Scottish soldiers in the Swedish army 1611
Post by: horselydown86 on Friday 06 May 16 03:52 BST (UK)

Yes - I think the last name of the second man in the first extract is bedel.

The d has an extravagant flourish which loops around twice.

The first e is not very clear but the flourish may be obscuring its top.

Title: Re: Scottish soldiers in the Swedish army 1611
Post by: MusterScriver on Friday 06 May 16 12:54 BST (UK)

Thank you again, horselydown86.

The suggested Georg Sneyle (in my second extract) seems to be the same as Jörgen Snoide in the muster roll of 1613 written by a Swedish clerk.

Also Thomas Segsworthe is now Tomas Saghuortt.

In the Swedish muster rolls at that time even the first names of the foreign soldiers were often "translated": James was Jacob, Georg was Jörgen/Jorgen, John was Johan, Teage was Täggh.

Regards,
Matt

Title: Re: Scottish soldiers in the Swedish army 1611
Post by: horselydown86 on Friday 06 May 16 15:59 BST (UK)

Interesting that he became Saghuortt in Swedish.

The extra letter in his name which puzzled me yesterday looks like a u - the letters spelt Segswuorthe, but of course in English we don't normally see the u preceding the o.

So perhaps a bit of Swedish habit came out in the writer's English spelling.