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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: martyn747 on Monday 02 May 16 14:09 BST (UK)

Title: Tracing Romany roots Sussex/Kent
Post by: martyn747 on Monday 02 May 16 14:09 BST (UK)
Hello all,

I'm hoping that somebody here can help me. I have been tracing my roots and I've hit a bit of a wall with available records.

My family have inhabited Sussex and Kent for many generations. I am tracing my paternal great-grandmother. I have found records of her marriage and newspaper articles confirming that her maiden name was GRAIMES. I have found a birth record of her brother in 1870 but cannot find a birth record for her. I have tried all different variations of the spelling.

I spoke to some older family members and they helped to confirm something which I had been wondering for a long time - whether I have Romany ancestry. Myself and my siblings are all dark featured, and the older family members described the women in my great-grandmothers family as dark-skinned and wearing Romany-style dresses. The men had jobs such as clog-maker, and some had unusual names.

I've read that if the subject isn't alive then I won't be breaching any forum rules by naming them. My great-grandmother I believe was named Ada Graimes (married Burchett).

My family are all over Sussex, concentrated around Lewes, Uckfield, Hailsham.

My paternal family are also Beeneys. I have read on other Romany sites that Beeney/Beaney is an old travelling surname. I also have Westerns and Bowdens on my mother's side.

I hope that somebody here will have heard of those names and can point me in the right direction. Has anybody come across a Graimes family in their research? Also is it a common stumbling-block to not find a birth record of an ancestor?

Thanks kindly for your help


Title: Re: Tracing Romany roots Sussex/Kent
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 02 May 16 14:20 BST (UK)
Hi

Welcome to rootschat

Do you have Ada on any census.  When & where was she born, who did she marry & when.

Rosie
Title: Re: Tracing Romany roots Sussex/Kent
Post by: martyn747 on Monday 02 May 16 14:36 BST (UK)
Thanks for the quick response  :)

She married Frederick Burchett. I found a wedding record for him registered in Brighton 1903. On another record I found it in March 1902. There was no record for a Ada Graimes.

Her brother I believe is Alfred Graimes born June 1897 in Brighton.

I have found 2 possible death records for her. The most promising is Sep 1916 Hastings, aged 31.

She had a child (my grandfather) named Alfred Cyril Burchett, born 1906 in Lewes.

I found a marriage record for Ada Funnell in 1903, the only Ada to marry the same year as Frederick. I have done some more digging and found this thread:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=395204.msg2660313#msg2660313

Funnell and Graimes mentioned in the same thread.

My head is hurting from trying to track all of these names and dates but I am starting to work on a theory that she re-married or that even my grandfather was born out of wedlock? Are these common scenarios in the 1890's/1900's?

Thanks,

Martyn

Update: I have found her on the 1911 census. She lists her birth year as 1888, born in Brighton. Married in 1904 to Frederick Burchett who is a groom. Still cannot find an original record for her birth or marriage with her maiden name.
Title: Re: Tracing Romany roots Sussex/Kent
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 02 May 16 15:54 BST (UK)
Are these common scenarios in the 1890's/1900's?

Yes  ;D   ;D

This is probably Ada's birth registration
Births Jun 1887   
Ada Funnell
Brighton    2b   256

and probably Ada's mothers marriage
March qtr 1899   
Funnell    Mercy Fanny       
Graimes    William Henry       
Lewes    2b   250
Title: Re: Tracing Romany roots Sussex/Kent
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 02 May 16 16:05 BST (UK)
We can't do 1911 lookups but for Ada's mother you need to be looking for Mercy Hanna Graimes

1909 Kellys directory has her as a shopkeeper in Hamsey.

This could be her death
Mercy A Graimes
Death Registration March 1927
Age at Death 68
Lewes RD 2b 297

Fanny / Annie / Ann / Hannah are all variations of one name
Title: Re: Tracing Romany roots Sussex/Kent
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 02 May 16 16:11 BST (UK)
1901 - Hamsey, Sussex   RG13 / 914 f136 p3
William H   Graines   44   General Dealer    bn Brighton, Sussex
Mercy   Graines   42    bn Lewes, Sussex
Ada   Graines   Dtr 13 bn Brighton
Alfred Graines   Son   4 bn Brighton
Montague   Chatfield   Boarder 23 bn Lewes, Sussex
Ernest   Chatfield   Boarder 22 Clerk To Timber Merchant bn    Lewes, Sussex
Title: Re: Tracing Romany roots Sussex/Kent
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 02 May 16 16:30 BST (UK)
It is possible that Mercy is the daughter of William & Mary Funnell  :-\
1861 - RG9/577 f161 p15 age 1 born Fletching, Sussex
1871 -  RG10/1055 f65 p1 age 11 bn Danehill, Sussex


Ignore that, looks like she married Benjamin Newnham
Title: Re: Tracing Romany roots Sussex/Kent
Post by: martyn747 on Monday 02 May 16 16:45 BST (UK)
Thanks Rosie, you've been invaluable!

So from what you've posted, the other thread, and other sources, I've linked the following together:

Mercy Hannah Turner born Dec 1857 Lewes: 2b 141

Marriage: June quarter 1881
Mercy Annie TURNER
George FUNNELL
Brighton 2b 448a

Births Jun 1887   
Ada Funnell
Brighton    2b   256

Birth Dec qtr 1893   
Flora FUNNELL     
Brighton  2b 214  (from the other thread which I linked.)

March qtr 1899   
Funnell    Mercy Fanny       
Graimes    William Henry       
Lewes    2b   250

Does this look pretty solid to you?

It explains why my family remember Ada's surname as being Graimes. She was actually born of a previous marriage to George Funnell and is also a Turner by maternal blood.

I'll look into the 'Graines' spelling variation next! In your experience are the spelling variations more likely due to the poor literacy/record keeping of the time, or a deliberate attempt to 'start a new life' so to speak due to the stigma of divorce/wedlock?
Title: Re: Tracing Romany roots Sussex/Kent
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 02 May 16 16:49 BST (UK)
1891 RG12/805 f59 p28 - Sussex Terrace, Brighton
William Graham 33 General Dealer   bn Brighton
Mercy (Funnell) Mother In Law    - Widow   44   bn Lewes
William H   Graham   Son   11 bn Brighton
Louie   Funnell   Sister In Law   Single 14   bn Brighton
Ada F   Graham   Daughter   3 bn Brighton
Jimmie   Graham   Son   3 months bn Brighton

Descriptions such as mother in law can mean anything, they clearly did not know how to describe her
Title: Re: Tracing Romany roots Sussex/Kent
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 02 May 16 17:19 BST (UK)
I am thinking that the Louie Funnell sister in law is probably Flora Funnell   ::)

Spelling of names at that time could be illiteracy or pronunciation / regional accents etc
Title: Re: Tracing Romany roots Sussex/Kent
Post by: martyn747 on Monday 02 May 16 17:30 BST (UK)
Thanks for your help Rosie :) Are these surnames you've come across before on the Travelling People forum?
Title: Re: Tracing Romany roots Sussex/Kent
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 02 May 16 17:34 BST (UK)
I do not normally look at the travelling people forum.  As far as I can see without going back further these people are not travellers
Title: Re: Tracing Romany roots Sussex/Kent
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 02 May 16 17:44 BST (UK)
1891 RG12/805 f59 p28 - Sussex Terrace, Brighton
William Graham 33 General Dealer   bn Brighton
Mercy (Funnell) Mother In Law    - Widow   44   bn Lewes
William H   Graham   Son   11 bn Brighton
Louie   Funnell   Sister In Law   Single 14   bn Brighton
Ada F   Graham   Daughter   3 bn Brighton
Jimmie   Graham   Son   3 months bn Brighton

Descriptions such as mother in law can mean anything, they clearly did not know how to describe her

1881 Brighton
RG11/ 1081 f103 p28
George Funnell age 38 General Dealer born Brighton
Mary F Funnell   Wife   25 occ Cook (Nd) bn Lewes
Lousia Funnell   Daughter   4 bn Lewes

Mary / Mercy are very likely to have been mistranscribed by the census enumerator

Probably George's death
Death March qtr 1884 
George Funnell age 41
Brighton reg district    2b   152
Title: Re: Tracing Romany roots Sussex/Kent
Post by: Lamps1 on Tuesday 03 May 16 08:05 BST (UK)
Hi

Do you know any of the names of your Beeney family. I have the Beeney family in my tree. My 3xGreat Aunt Emma Rhoades married Robert Beeney. The Rhoades and Beeney family were Horse Dealers and were based in Sussex and Surrey.

Paul
Title: Re: Tracing Romany roots Sussex/Kent
Post by: martyn747 on Tuesday 03 May 16 12:02 BST (UK)
My great-grandparents were Victor and Merle Beeney (nee Smytherman, first name Ethel). They worked with animals and ran a farm. My dad grew up on a farm and has fond memories of them. I was lucky enough to know both of them. I still have Beeney family around Brighton+Hove but I've not come across a Robert yet. I'll do some digging and see what I can find.

Victor was born in Ticehurst 1906 and married in 1931.