RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: bibliotaphist on Wednesday 27 April 16 10:52 BST (UK)
-
I'm trying to locate Edward SPOONER, boot and shoe maker (abt 1811-1898), in Wolverhampton,
in the 1871 and 1881 censuses; also to find out what happened to his grandson John Edward Spooner (1853-?).
(Edit: grandson John Edward Spooner has almost certainly been located.)
(Edit no. 2: Edward Spooner senior now located in 1871 and 1881 !)
Timeline:
- 1811 (about) - Edward SPOONER born in Sedgley; Ann HIGHFIELD born in Wolverhampton.
- 1831, 15th August - Edward marries Ann at St Peter, Wolverhampton.
- 1832, 17th September - daughter #1 Harriet baptised at St Peter, Wolv/ton.
- 1837 (about) - daughter #2 Jane born.
- 1841 census - whole family together at Smiths Buildings, Wolv/ton.
- 1851 census - Edward+Ann and daughter Jane together at Stafford Street, Wolv/ton. Where is Harriet?
- 1852, 27th December - daughter Harriet marries Felix CORR at St Peter, Wolv/ton.
- 1853 - daughter Jane, "single woman", has a son, baptised Edward Spooner on 26th September.
- 1853, Dec Q - daughter #3 Mary Ann born to Edward+Ann. She died in infancy.
- 1859, 23rd April - daughter Jane marries William GRADY at St George, Wolv/ton.
- 1861 census - Edward+Ann and grandson John Edward Spooner, at 80, Herbert Street, Wolv/ton.
1871 census - where are Edward+Ann, and grandson (John) Edward Spooner?- 1872, Dec Q - death of Ann Spooner.
- 1873, Sep Q - Edward marries Sarah MADDOCKS in Wolverhampton Reg. Dist.
1881 census - where are Edward+Sarah, and grandson John Edward?- 1891 census - Edward+Sarah are at Montrose Street, Wolv/ton.
- 1898, Mar Q - death of Edward Spooner.
- 1901 census - Sarah Spooner, widow, is still at Montrose Street, Wolv/ton.
- 1903, Mar Q - death of Sarah Spooner.
Questions:
- Where is daughter Harriet in the 1851 census?
Where is Edward Spooner hiding in 1871 and 1881?What happens to the grandson, John Edward Spooner, after 1871?
Spreadsheet attached showing the missing census years.
-
Hi,
I think Jane married William Grad[e]yJune qtr 1859 in Wolverhampton,cert will tell you the answer.
Regards
Joburg
-
Hi,
I think Jane married William Grad[e]yJune qtr 1859 in Wolverhampton,cert will tell you the answer.
Regards
Joburg
Hi Joburg. Yes, that marriage is already in the timeline above :) ... the O.P.R. is available as part of the Staffordshire collection on Findmypast.
-
Hi
A possibility for grandson John Edward in 1881 is in the Wales census as a visitor in the Nicholas family , Pembrokeshire, Llanstadwell
With a Wife Emily and several children. ( Hettie, William and Edwin)
Edwd. SPOONER 28 Born Wolverhampton, Occ. G W Railway Clerk
Class: RG11; Piece: 5414; Folio: 29; Page: 5
claire
-
Hi
A possibility for grandson John Edward in 1881 is in the Wales census as a visitor in the Nicholas family , Pembrokeshire, Llanstadwell
With a Wife Emily and several children. ( Hettie, William and Edwin)
Edwd. SPOONER 28 Born Wolverhampton, Occ. G W Railway Clerk
Class: RG11; Piece: 5414; Folio: 29; Page: 5
claire
Aha - good find!
There is an entry in the G.W.R.'s register of clerks ("UK, Railway Employment Records, 1833-1956" database on Ancestry) for Edward Spooner, born 11th September 1853 (i.e. two weeks before the baptism of 'my' Edward Spooner), showing various postings from July 1881 onwards.
I think there's a strong possibility that this is him.
-
Hi
If this is your man, JohnEdward Spooner is consistant in other census records with birthplace Wolverhampton and pretty east to trace.
1891 Wales:He is down as Edward Spooner 37, With Emily 35 and children: Edwin TAYLOR Spooner 14, Nellie May Spooner 15 and William TAYLOR Spooner 11all born Wolverhampton,
Edward Spooner is a station master in this year.
claire
-
1901 census he is in Westbury Wiltshire
Edward Spooner Station master aged 47 with Emily 45, Nellie M 25, a John Downs (boarder) and a servant Florence Cox.
Class: RG13; Piece: 1940; Folio: 69; Page: 16
claire
-
Edward Spooner remarries in London 1910, a JULIA MAUD TUFFIN
Balham Hill Ascension 31 Oct. 1910
Edward Spooner 56 widower, stationmaster of Westbury Wilts. Father : Edward Spooner ~ traveller
Julia Maud Tuffin 47 spinster of 166 Cavendish Rd, Balham Hill. Father: Nehemiah Tuffin ~ carpenter
Both signed
Witnesses: James Edward Morris and Harry Richards
claire
He is back in Wiltshire by the last census :)
-
Edwards first marriage in Wolverhampton: 8 Oct 1875 St Peters after Banns
Edward Spooner 22 bach of Tettenhall a clerk. Father: Edward Spooner a bootmaker
Emily Taylor 19 spins. of King Street. Father: Uriah Taylor a foreman.
claire
-
1901 census he is in Westbury Wiltshire
Edward Spooner Station master aged 47 with Emily 45, Nellie M 25, a John Downs (boarder) and a servant Florence Cox.
Class: RG13; Piece: 1940; Folio: 69; Page: 16
claire
Bravo, claire, thank you so much.
I have him on the 1911 census now as well.
And a good find on the remarriage. Thank you very much for that as well. I think the father's name there might help clinch it. There are surprisingly few Edward Spooners. I have access to that collection on Ancestry.
Edit - see reply below.
If Edward Spooner senior was a traveller by trade for at least part of his life, that might explain his apparent absence from Wolverhampton in 1871-1881.
-
Edwards first marriage in Wolverhampton: 8 Oct 1875 St Peters after Banns
Edward Spooner 22 bach of Tettenhall a clerk. Father: Edward Spooner a bootmaker
Emily Taylor 19 spins. of King Street. Father: Uriah Taylor a foreman.
claire
Sorry, my last reply just crossed with this post. Spot on ;D
-
Edit - sorry, I was getting myself confused. The real Edward Spooner senior was the grandfather, not the father, of the Edward Spooner born to Jane Spooner in 1853. However it looks as if either Edward junior might have grown up believing that the bootmaker Edward was his father, or else he pretended that was the case at both of his marriages...
-
Not having much joy finding Harriet in 1851 but there is an interesting one in Wolverhampton
There is a Harriet LOYNEL ( can't see any other references to her BMD) age 17 a house servant with a WILKES family on Church Lane
Surname does look like Loynel ???
The only reason I'm pointing this girl out is there is a SPOONER family living two doors away. Richard 65, daughter Hannah 29 and grandaughter Mary Ann 4.
Class: HO107; Piece: 2018; Folio: 267; Page: 19
claire
-
Probable death of grandson Edward:
- Mar Q 1922, Westbury W., 5a 186, aged 68.
I've updated my spreadsheet to show only the remaining gaps.
Will take a look at that LOYNEL census entry.
Thank you again.
-
Edward SPOONER (grandfather) is certainly good at playing hide and seek, I can't find anything 1871/1881 ???
Wonder if any of the returns are missing for Wolverhampton
claire
-
Edward SPOONER (grandfather) is certainly good at playing hide and seek, I can't find anything 1871/1881 ???
Wonder if any of the returns are missing for Wolverhampton
claire
There's nothing on Findmypast's list of missing pieces, but I don't know how comprehensive that is.
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/census-for-england-wales-and-scotland-missing-pieces (http://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/census-for-england-wales-and-scotland-missing-pieces)
-
I've checked directories for the area for Edward, boot maker to get a possible address,-no joy.
Wonder where Ann was buried, a record may have an address , which may or may not be where they are in 1871
Claire
-
I've checked directories for the area for Edward, boot maker to get a possible address,-no joy.
Wonder where Ann was buried, a record may have an address , which may or may not be where they are in 1871
Claire
Yes. You'll have spotted by the number of Quarterly dates in my timeline that I haven't actually ordered any certs yet(!)
None of the deaths AFAICT have corresponding burials in the Staffs P.R. collection on Findmypast.
-
I've checked directories for the area for Edward, boot maker to get a possible address,-no joy.
Wonder where Ann was buried, a record may have an address , which may or may not be where they are in 1871
Claire
He is in the 'History, Gazetteer & Directory of Staffordshire', 1851, on Stafford Street...
http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/cdm/ref/collection/p16445coll4/id/218945 (http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/cdm/ref/collection/p16445coll4/id/218945)
...but I knew that already ::)
-
I was looking around the 1871/1881 time. :) Just strange two census's and no trace of them at all.
Claire
-
I was looking around the 1871/1881 time. :) Just strange two census's and no trace of them at all.
Claire
Slowly but surely and as limited funds allow I am buying all available birth, marriage, and death certificates for every one of my direct ancestors, in approximate reverse chronological/Ahnentafel order.
Eventually I will get around to the death cert of Ann Spooner née Highfield in 1872, and the second marriage of Edward in '73. (Edward+Ann are my four-greats grandparents. Jane Spooner is my three-greats grandmother and through a complicated series of events in the 1880s I can also count her sister Harriet as my step-three-greats grandmother...)
It's going to take me a while to get to this generation, though. I still have a number of great-great grandparents' certs to buy, never mind the three-greats.
I think for the time being Edward is just going to remain lost during that period. At least he reappeared in 1891 in time to die 'on the record'. I've not been so lucky determining the fate of four of Jane Spooner's children with William GRADY (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=747145.msg5945615). Once that lot get lost, they stay lost ;)
Thanks one more time for all your help. I've made real progress today.
-
Your welcome :)
Will have a look later, after work
Claire
-
Hi
Have found Ann's burial record. In 1872 they were living in HERBERT STREET, which is in the same area as Stafford Street. So they must be around somewhere.
Ann Spooner buried 20 Nov. 1872 aged 61 years. Of Herbert Street. Wife of Edward shoemaker.
Grave no. 4876.
Mary Ann Spooner aged 1 day buried 25 Oct. 1853. Of Herbert St. Daughter of Edward Spooner shoemaker
Grave: 8757
Died of convulsions.
Claire :)
-
Hi
Have found Ann's burial record. In 1872 they were living in HERBERT STREET, which is in the same area as Stafford Street. So they must be around somewhere.
Ann Spooner buried 20 Nov. 1872 aged 61 years. Of Herbert Street. Wife of Edward shoemaker.
Grave no. 4876.
Mary Ann Spooner aged 1 day buried 25 Oct. 1853. Of Herbert St. Daughter of Edward Spooner shoemaker
Grave: 8757
Died of convulsions.
Claire :)
Fantastic! What's the source for those two please?
They're at 80, Herbert Street, in the '61 census so I'm sure they must be there on the '71.
When I have time later I'll try stepping through the 1871 census page by page for that area of Wolv/ton. Is it possible that certain pages are not indexed, I wonder.
-
Hi
Have found Ann's burial record. In 1872 they were living in HERBERT STREET, which is in the same area as Stafford Street. So they must be around somewhere.
Ann Spooner buried 20 Nov. 1872 aged 61 years. Of Herbert Street. Wife of Edward shoemaker.
Grave no. 4876.
Mary Ann Spooner aged 1 day buried 25 Oct. 1853. Of Herbert St. Daughter of Edward Spooner shoemaker
Grave: 8757
Died of convulsions.
Claire :)
Fantastic! What's the source for those two please?
They're at 80, Herbert Street, in the '61 census so I'm sure they must be there on the '71.
When I have time later I'll try stepping through the 1871 census page by page for that area of Wolv/ton. Is it possible that certain pages are not indexed, I wonder.
Could this be who you are looking for?
NO surname written on the census, their surname dittoed as FIRM
Joseph FIRM & family living at no 79 Herbert Street
1871 RG10; Piece: 2937; Folio: 67; Page: 27
80 HERBERT STREET
Edward 56 Sedgley occ Shoemaker
Ann 60 Wolverhampton bolt maker
Edward J son 17 Wolverhampton railway wagon clerk
-
For info,
Edward Spooner mar. 28 GW Rly Clerk & his family are visiting the Nicholas family in Pembroke Wales
1881 RG11; Piece: 5414; Folio: 29; Page: 5
ADDED
Edward Spooner remarried, he’s a Station Master on 1901c RG13; Piece: 1940; Folio: 69; Page: 16 living in Wiltshire with wife Emily & dau Nellie
31 Oct 1910 by Licence at Ascension, Balham Hill
Edward Spooner 56 wid. station master, Westbury Wilts father Edward dec’d occ traveller
Julia Maud Tuffin 47 sp., 166 Cavendish Rd Balham father Nehemiah deceased occ carpenter
Wits James Edward Morris & Harry Richards
-
Could this be who you are looking for?
NO surname written on the census, their surname dittoed as FIRM
Joseph FIRM & family living at no 79 Herbert Street
1871 RG10; Piece: 2937; Folio: 67; Page: 27
80 HERBERT STREET
Edward 56 Sedgley occ Shoemaker
Ann 60 Wolverhampton bolt maker
Edward J son 17 Wolverhampton railway wagon clerk
Hooray, Ladyhawk: you've found them alright. -1 point for the census enumerator getting carried away with his dittos over the household boundary. My blank spaces are getting fewer. Thank you.
I'm still going to try trawling the area page by page in 1881.
-
Hi again
Progress :D ;D
A great resource
www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk
Claire :)
-
For info,
Edward Spooner mar. 28 GW Rly Clerk & his family are visiting the Nicholas family in Pembroke Wales
1881 RG11; Piece: 5414; Folio: 29; Page: 5
ADDED
Edward Spooner remarried, he’s a Station Master on 1901c RG13; Piece: 1940; Folio: 69; Page: 16 living in Wiltshire with wife Emily & dau Nellie
31 Oct 1910 by Licence at Ascension, Balham Hill
Edward Spooner 56 wid. station master, Westbury Wilts father Edward dec’d occ traveller
Julia Maud Tuffin 47 sp., 166 Cavendish Rd Balham father Nehemiah deceased occ carpenter
Wits James Edward Morris & Harry Richards
Hi again Ladyhawk. Apologies but ..claire.. has beaten you to it on those. See earlier replies (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=747286.msg5946469#msg5946469). Good to have independent confirmation though!!
-
Hi again
Progress :D ;D
A great resource
www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk
Claire :)
Superb. Thank you. I'd forgotten about that website. I'd checked those burial details against NBI, FamilySearch, Freereg, Findmypast, Ancestry, Deceasedonline and http://blackcountryhistory.org/ (http://blackcountryhistory.org/) - was beginning to lose the plot :P
-
I've found them in 1881.
8 Court, Stafford Street.
RG11, piece 2800, fol. 73, p. 15.
Surname recorded as "Spoon[-indistinct-squiggle]" and transcribed as Spoon :)
Sarah's birthplace mysteriously and pointlessly indexed by Findmypast as "Stone, Buckinghamshire, England" ?!
So they were within those few streets all along.
Just the matter of daughter Harriet's whereabouts in 1851 to resolve now. Am going to look again at that LOYNEL entry. I wonder if Richard Spooner down the page could be Edward's father or another relative.
-
I don't know why we didn't check them for the surname 'Spoon', it seems so obvious now you've found it ;D
Brilliant :D Another one off your list.
Do you have Edwards baptism ? It is possible there is a family tie between him and Richard.
Claire
-
Hi again Ladyhawk. Apologies but ..claire.. has beaten you to it on those. See earlier replies (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=747286.msg5946469#msg5946469). Good to have independent confirmation though!!
Sorry to duplicate - hadn't looked at the earlier pages ::)
Just the matter of daughter Harriet's whereabouts in 1851 to resolve now.
Might this be a possibility for Harriett Spooner born c 1832 on 1851c – transcribed as Hans Spooner
Take a look at the original census and see what you think HO107; Piece: 2027; Folio: 201; Page: 8
Her name looks to read Harr.’t Spooner lodger U 18 (1833) Stafford Wednesbury occ. ?ster servant
-
Well spotted :)
That does look good.
Claire
-
Hi again Ladyhawk. Apologies but ..claire.. has beaten you to it on those. See earlier replies (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=747286.msg5946469#msg5946469). Good to have independent confirmation though!!
Sorry to duplicate - hadn't looked at the earlier pages ::)
Just the matter of daughter Harriet's whereabouts in 1851 to resolve now.
Might this be a possibility for Harriett Spooner born c 1832 on 1851c – transcribed as Hans Spooner
Take a look at the original census and see what you think HO107; Piece: 2027; Folio: 201; Page: 8
Her name looks to read Harr.’t Spooner lodger U 18 (1833) Stafford Wednesbury occ. ?ster servant
That one goes on the possible pile too. That said, there do seem to be plenty Spooners in Wednesbury (21 baptisms in the Findmypast Staffs PR set) so it might be more likely one of that tribe.
To answer your other question - no, I haven't found Edward snr's baptism (born Sedgley abt 1811) yet - I don't know his father's name.
-
...although:
There is a transcription of a baptism in FreeReg of Edward Spooner son of Richard Spooner labourer and Mary, Sedgley All Saints, 25 Dec 1809.
http://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/571c2103f493fd172d00d2f3?search_id=572102c3791e3bd172000d6d (http://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/571c2103f493fd172d00d2f3?search_id=572102c3791e3bd172000d6d) (no idea if that URL will persist.)
It looks a little early to be 'my' Edward, but it's possible he underreported his own age throughout his life - or it could be the baptism of an earlier deceased sibling and the name was re-used.
Or it's entirely possible that it's a different family altogether.
-
I think that looks quite good, what did the census say ?...1811, have you found his burial ? The age on that could help.
Plus he was consistent with his PoB being Sedgley.
Claire :)
-
Sarah was widowed by 1901 and they are together on 1891 census in Wolverhampton
Edward age 81 (1810) Sedgley , so his death sometime between 1891 – 1901
This might be his death entry
Mar 1898 Wolverhampton 6b 380
Edward SPOONER age 88 (1810)
-
Sarah was widowed by 1901 and they are together on 1891 census in Wolverhampton
Edward age 81 (1810) Sedgley , so his death sometime between 1891 – 1901
This might be his death entry
Mar 1898 Wolverhampton 6b 380
Edward SPOONER age 88 (1810)
Yes, that's very probably his death. (That 1898 death reg was in the timeline on my opening post.)
I suppose 25th Dec 1809 is very nearly 1810... but I'd want to rule out the possibility that 1809-Edward hadn't died and the name been reused, first. Transcriptions of the Sedgley records online are very patchy. I don't have any other evidence that Edward's father was called Richard. I may have to see if I can get hold of the film of the Sedgley PRs.
Looking again at the mysterious Harriet LOYNEL living near Richard Spooner in 1851.
They are all in Church Lane which is at most ½ mile from where Harriet's future husband Felix CORR was living in 1851 (he was at St James' Square, which has now disappeared under the Bilston Island roundabout). By the time of their marriage 20 months after the census, they were recorded as living at Stafford Street (Edward+Ann's residence) and Berry Street, respectively.
-
...have you found his burial ? The age on that could help.
P.S. no, I haven't been able to find a burial yet. Though there is a line in one of the www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk (http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/) PDFs for:
Richard Spooner, bur. 18th Mar 1860, aged 73 [i.e. b. abt 1787], of Pipers Row, St George.
(Merridale Cemetery: Burials 1850-1879
Surnames Sh-Z)
That is probably the same Richard found on Church Lane in 1851 who was the possible father/relative for Edward.
-
Hi
Another possible burial for the family, daughter of (John) Edward Spooner
Mary Isabel aged 17months buried 16 Dec 1879 of North Street. Daughter of Edward, railway clerk
Grave: 8938b
Merridale Cemetery: Burials 1879-1904 Surnames Q-Z
claire
-
This looks like the burial of Richard Spooners wife maybe
Mary Spooner aged 64 buried 10 Mar 1850 of CHURCH LANE
Wolverhampton St. Peter’s: Burials 1813-1862 Surnames I-Y
claire
-
This looks like the burial of Richard Spooners wife maybe
Mary Spooner aged 64 buried 10 Mar 1850 of CHURCH LANE
Wolverhampton St. Peter’s: Burials 1813-1862 Surnames I-Y
claire
Yes, I think you are right. If I can prove that Richard+Mary were Edward's parents, that's a significant leap backwards.
Incidentally I have found the missing baptism for daughter #2 Jane Spooner. 23rd December 1835, St Peter's. Findmypast Staffordshire PRs collection. The surname was transcribed as "Spencer". You can see why.
-
Crikey, that's terrible handwriting, but it does look like Spencer :o
claire