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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: seventyplus on Sunday 24 April 16 11:46 BST (UK)
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Thomas Wells b. 1807 in Chatham, Kent. First marriage, to Frances Rowe, was in Rochester, Kent on 21st April 1832. The marriage to his second wife occurred between the 1841 and 1851 census. Her name was Mary Ann ??? Thomas and Frances had a son, William, my great grandfather, in 1832.
If anyone has further information on Thomas, eg. death, parents, I would love to hear from you. Thank you for your help. seventyplus.
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Free Reg has a burial for a Frances Wells at Chatham on 6 April 1845 (aged 40), so this might narrow your search for a remarriage a little. Can't see a marriage straight away, but will keep looking.
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Is this the same Thomas Wells and son William as in your previous topics?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=606178.msg4556660#msg4556660
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=610491.msg4597768#msg4597768
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Children of Thomas (sawyer) and Frances at Chatham:
Thomas Richard Jarratt bp 26 May 1833
Frances Ann 23 Nov 1834
George Rowe 9 Aug 1840
Mary Ellen 4 Jun 1843
Children of Thomas (sawyer) and Mary Ann:
Mary Ann 14 May 1848
But can't see your William? Is this the right family based on your census information?
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Thanks maddys52.
I didn't have death date for Frances and this looks as though it could be right. No, I haven't found a second marriage date either.
As for the family, the 1841 census, which includes William, has little info. other than names and genders. However, I filled in the birth years from the 1851 census, in which Frances jnr.is missing.
Thomas Wells 1807
Frances "
Thomas " 1834
Frances "
William " 1838
George " 1841
Somewhere I, too, found the family with second names quoted. They're quite memorable. Don't remember why I discounted them. Where did your info come from? seventyplus
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Aghadowey. I've been off the radar for a long time during which I'd forgotten I'd already posted Thomas Wells. Yes, same one for which, apologies. seventyplus
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Hi Seventyplus, I found those baptisms and burial for Frances on FreeReg.
I see on the 1851 census it gives William's birthplace as Queenborough, as far as I can see Queenborough has not yet been transcribed for FreeReg so that's probably why I can't see his baptism. Although looking on FreeBMD there is a birth registration for William Jabes WELLS at Sheppey in the December quarter 1837 (which covers Queenborough), so I would think this could be a possibility.
As for the second marriage, there are 2 possibilities that I can see on FreeBMD - Sep 1846 to Mary Ann Amelia ROBINSON or Jun 1847 to Mary Ann PIKE - but these need to be checked carefully as FreeBMD doesn't say who are "couples": these may not be the right ones. Best to check each of the people appearing and see if you can match them up on census details. Hope that's clear.
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Ok, found William's baptism 12 Nov 1837 at Queenborough, father: Thomas, mother: Frances. Full name William Jabez WELLS.
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And marriage Thomas WELLS (wid) to Mary Ann PIKE 27 Jun 1847 at St Mary's CHatham. His father:William, her father, George.
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Do you have all the census details for Thomas? He's quite easy to find in all of them up to 1891, details are available on familysearch. I'm assuming his death is the one registered at Medway Dec 1892 aged 85.
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Hi again,
Just checking, are you sure this is your William WELLS? I notice there is a marriage for William Jabez WELLS at Nth Aylesford in Dec 1859 to Lucy Jane WOOD or Rosanna Sophia CATT (probably Lucy, as I can see Rosanna and Henry Bennett in later census). Whereas your William was a bachelor when he married Sarah according to your previous thread?
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Thanks Maddys52 and apologies for the delay. I am completely confused. Yes, I came across William Jabez in my travails but, as I've kept no details, I presume I discounted him. I think it's back to square 1 with pencil and paper. There are a couple of facts of which i am clear.
I have William's marriage cert. to Sarah Ann King; Kensington, 1892.Willaim is a bachelor and Sarah is a widow. Sarah's first husband, David King had recently died.
I have their daughter's school admission record, 1880, aged 9. She is named as Isadore Wells (although according to her burial record, her name is Elizabeth Isadore) with no previous schooling. Interesting!
1891 census, Kensington, with William as Head. Again, Elizabeth, (my grandmother) is named Isadore. She was known as Lizzie to the family. William Batten was my grandfather and Polly, my aunt.
"Must try harder". seventyplus
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Yes, always better to start with what you know.
I'm assuming (as on your previous thread) it says William's father was Thomas (on the marriage cert)?
According to census, William's birthplace is:
1871 - Farnham
1881 - Middlesex
1891 - Cambridgeshire
1901 - Farnham
1911 - Farnham
Without seeing the originals it's hard to account for the discrepancies, but I guess Farnham looks most likely. I would suggest the next step is to locate William in the 1861, 51 and 41 census.
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Thanks again Maddy.
I've been unable to locate William on the census of 41,51,61. Most frustrating. I see I'm also missing him on the 1881 census. I'll try again as, I believe, the 1881 census records are free?
The death record you quote for Thomas cannot be the one. On William's marriage cert, Jan. 1892, his father Thomas is already 'deceased'. I haven't managed to decipher which is his death date.
I find I'm also missing the 1861 census for Thomas.
I thought I'd exhausted the records in 'Find my Past' etc so allowed my subscriptions to end. But there's always seems to be something new to check.
Thanks again, Joan
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Hi Joan,
The details for William in the 1881 census can be found for free at familysearch
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK65-3QCV
If you want to see the original image you will need a subscription to findmypast or ancestry etc.
I'm really not sure that the Thomas Wells you have asked about in this thread is the father of your William Wells. As we discovered above, Thomas and Frances Wells were the parents of William Jabez Wells, but I can't see the connection between William Jabez and your William. As your William states in the census records he was born in Farnham, Surrey, that's a long way from Queensborough (or even Chatham) Kent.
Maybe you could start another thread asking for help to find William in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census? (I agree - difficult to locate! but other rootschatters are very good at finding hard to locate relatives!) You know his father was Thomas, and probably born Farnham.
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Hi,
Do you think that this William and family is a possibility?
Farnham, St Andrew
02 Mar 1836
William
Mother: Sarah Wells Base Born
Abode: Hungry Hill
Farnham, St Andrew
04 May 1838
Ann
Mother: Sarah Wells Base Born
Abode: Hoghatch
Marriage
William GILLIAM
Full Age
Bachelor
Labourer
Residence: Hungry Hill
Father: Henry GILLIAM, Butcher
Sarah WELLS
Full Age
Spinster
Residence: Hungry Hill
Father: John WELLS, Blacksmith
Witnesses: William WELLS, J S WARD
1841 HO107/1076/9 f.17 P.27 Reigate, Surrey
No.2 Turf Cottages
GILLAM
William 30 Rail L
Sarah 25
William 5
Ann 3
Henry 1
All born in County.
1851 HO107/1679 f.145 p.24 Alton, Hampshire
Normandy St
GILLIAM
William Head 37 Ag Lab Hants Crondall
Sarah Wife 39 Middx Feltham
William Son 15 Surrey Farnham
Ann Daur 13 Hants Crookham
Henry Son 11 Surrey Reigate
Jane Daur 6 Hants Alton
Tryphena Daur 3 " "
John Son 2m " "
William and Sarah also have a daughter called Sarah born in 1853.
It looks like Sarah Snr dies in Mar Q 1859 and is buried on 05 Mar 1859.
Ann marries as Ann GILHAM on 16 Jan 1859 to George WHITE. William GILLIAM Snr is living with them in 1881.
I can follow all the family members here except William WELLS/GILLIAM b.1836 Farnham. I wonder if after his mother died he reverted to using WELLS as his surname?
The name of Thomas WELLS as William's father on his marriage cert. could just be made up because he didn't want to look illegitimate or it could be the name Sarah told him his father was.
I have seen lots of variations given on marriage certs. before, step-father's names (as Ann used above), grandfather's names, the father's real christian name but with the mother's maiden surname and name that just seem totally made up :o ;D
This may or may not be the case for 'your' William but I think all options should be considered.
Regards,
Daisy
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Oh well done Daisy, that looks like a real possibility to me. It would be interesting to see what name Ann put for her father on her marriage cert. What was the date for the marriage of Sarah and William?
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The only references that I can see are the GRO ref.,
Ann GILHAM Mar Q 1859 Alton 2c 211
George WHITE
and this transcription (I can't see the original image),
16 Jan 1859
Alton, Hampshire
Ann GILHAM
Age: 20
Father: William GILHAM
George WHITE
Age: 21
Father: Henry WHITE
I wasn't even sure it was the right Ann until I found William GILLIAM living with George and Sarah WHITE as father.
As Ann was so young when Sarah WELLS married William GILLIAM maybe she thought he was her real father or she just used his name as he was her step-father :-\
Maybe William found out William GILLIAM wasn't his real father before or when Sarah died and just took off, perhaps they just didn't get along. A story we will never know.