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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: king william on Saturday 23 April 16 02:38 BST (UK)

Title: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: king william on Saturday 23 April 16 02:38 BST (UK)
Can anyone please tell me if Newcastle-upon-Tyne was ever a Scottish city. I have helped my friend with her family history and have checked that the city was never in Scottish hands.

I know that the borders did change over time but believe that it was always firmly in England. However she was told by an old timer from the area - a Geordie -  that he was born in Newcastle-upon-Tyne when it was a Scottish city as the borders were different back then, but it is now an English city.

I think it has always been English. As for the village of Kirknewton in Northumberland has that ever belonged to Scotland or has it always been English. It must be fairly close to the border.

Who is correct?
Robin - aka King William
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: maddys52 on Saturday 23 April 16 02:56 BST (UK)
From a quick google search it looks like Newcastle upon Tyne was in Scottish hands from 1138-1157. So he would have to be a pretty old, old timer to have been born in it as a Scottish City!

However, there may be others with much more knowledgeable History than me.  ;)
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: IMBER on Saturday 23 April 16 07:39 BST (UK)
Why not look him up on FreeBMD?:

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

Imber
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: stanmapstone on Saturday 23 April 16 08:14 BST (UK)
As for the village of Kirknewton in Northumberland has that ever belonged to Scotland or has it always been English. It must be fairly close to the border.

KIRKNEWTON, a township and a parish in Glendale district, Northumberland. The township lies on the river Glen, under the Cheviots, near the railway from Scots-Gap to the Tweed, 3¾ miles E of the boundary with Scotland, http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/9417

Stan
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: stanmapstone on Saturday 23 April 16 08:21 BST (UK)
I know that the borders did change over time

The Solway-Tweed line was legally established in 1237 by the Treaty of York between England and Scotland.[1] It remains the border today
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Scottish_border

Stan
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: king william on Saturday 23 April 16 21:14 BST (UK)
Thanks to you all, it wasn't a problem with her history, just a query - but all sorted now thanks!

Robin - King William
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: Pete E on Wednesday 15 June 16 14:17 BST (UK)
Perhaps the old timer was a bit confused and was actually born over the border in Newcastleton.  ;)
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: bookfairy on Wednesday 27 July 16 22:33 BST (UK)
Can anyone please tell me if Newcastle-upon-Tyne was ever a Scottish city. I have helped my friend with her family history and have checked that the city was never in Scottish hands.

I found your query interesting.  I have a relative that claimed he was Scottish on all the census but all of his records; marriage, baptisms, and census were all from Newcastle upon Tyne, All Saints Parish.  I've been trying to find anything that would indicate why he claimed Scotland. So far no luck and no hint of him ever having been to Scotland.
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: dowdstree on Wednesday 27 July 16 22:45 BST (UK)
No offence meant but up here we sometimes refer to "Geordies" as half baked Scotsman ;D ;D.
It's meant as a term of endearment.

Geordies like Scots are born north of Watford  :o :o

Dorrie
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: bookfairy on Wednesday 27 July 16 23:22 BST (UK)
No offence meant but up here we sometimes refer to "Geordies" as half baked Scotsman ;D ;D.
It's meant as a term of endearment.

Geordies like Scots are born north of Watford  :o :o

Dorrie

lol, I've wondered if he claimed Scot as a preference. 

Where does the term Geordies come from?  I've seen it before but don't know the meaning.
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 28 July 16 09:21 BST (UK)
Trusty (?) wikipedia says the etymology of the term Geordie is uncertain, but probably coming from the name George - either from the most common name of the local pitmen, or the name of the lamps they wore designed by George Stephenson, or who knows!

I knew my gg grandfather was born in Newcastle upon Tyne, so always assumed he was a Geordie (and thought of him with the accent) but was disappointed when I started family history myself to learn his family were just staying there for a time - they were from Staffordshire, and moved around a fair bit, so I'm sure now he wasn't a Geordie.  :'( :'(
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: stanmapstone on Thursday 28 July 16 11:07 BST (UK)
No offence meant but up here we sometimes refer to "Geordies" as half baked Scotsman ;D ;D.
IFromt's meant as a term of endearment.
Geordies like Scots are born north of Watford  :o :o
Dorrie

"A Geordie is a Scotsman with his brains bashed oot"
"The English divvn't want wi', and the Scots winnit have wi."
From "A Geordie Scrapbook" by Joe Ging.

Stan
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 28 July 16 11:58 BST (UK)
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: dido on Wednesday 05 October 16 21:39 BST (UK)
There are a few interpretations of the Geordie name such as if you were born within half a mile of the river Tyne you classed yourself as true Geordie. The most highly likely is when King George the 1st marched north to do battle with the Jacobite army at Braemar in 1715.  He recruited hundreds of men from northern England where these became known as  Geordies men and the name stuck. ;D
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: Skoosh on Thursday 06 October 16 15:44 BST (UK)
George I never set foot in Scotland, it was the duke of Argyll who fought the Jacobites at Sheriffmuir in 1715. The first Hanovarian king to cross the border was George IV.

Skoosh.
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: Skoosh on Thursday 06 October 16 15:49 BST (UK)
The Solway-Tweed agreement was broken by the English when they occupied Berwick & slaughtered the inhabitants. We want it back, unfinished business.

Skoosh.
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: dido on Friday 07 October 16 19:02 BST (UK)
Thanks for that little bit of history. Yes, he marched North to Northumberland with empty promises to the poor and starving Geordies. Maybe pressed or threatened them more like, to his own quest for glory and with no surprise in sending some other poor lackey over the border with the newly named Geordies as field fodder.
Not even surprised you have unfinished business. :'(   
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: Ayashi on Friday 07 October 16 19:12 BST (UK)
One of my ancestors born Newcastle (1854) had a great-grandfather who was born in Scotland (and moved to Newcastle). I noted with interest that on her will she leaves behind a large portrait of Mary Queen of Scots.
Title: Re: NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE - was it ever Scottish?
Post by: Phil K on Wednesday 25 May 22 17:36 BST (UK)
I believe on two occasions Newcastle was a "Scottish" city. First when King David took it, and wanted it as the main port of Scotland. Second during a brief time when they held King Charles 1st as captive in Newcastle (Theres a plaque there as to where. On Lloyds bank, I think in city centre