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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Betty19 on Tuesday 19 April 16 15:18 BST (UK)

Title: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Tuesday 19 April 16 15:18 BST (UK)
Hi Does anyone know where I should start looking for a Young 7-year-old Evacuee who never returned ?
My Neighbour wants to know what happened to her brother and as she said to me "put things right" .
She was told he died , and that is all she knows.
She is coming to see me soon with all the information she has , but I have no idea were to even start. looking .
Any pointers in the right direction would be fntastic
cheers
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: TerriG on Tuesday 19 April 16 15:29 BST (UK)
If he was evacuated to somewhere in England, I would suggest the 1939 Register, available on Find My Past.  You can search for free, using his name and birth date.  Depending on what results are returned, you can then decide if you want to pay to see the detail.
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 19 April 16 15:32 BST (UK)
Were they from England (or Wales)? since she knows his name and age (date of birth?) then you could have a look at deaths indexed on http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
If it is another country then there might be different places to check
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Tuesday 19 April 16 15:41 BST (UK)
Ow thanks
He was from Bethnal Green London , and yes she thinks he stayed in this country.
 
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: philipsearching on Tuesday 19 April 16 16:01 BST (UK)
I can't guarantee success, but if you can find out the street where he lived, you could figure out which school he may have attended.  The school might know where in England their pupils (groups, not necessarily individual names) were sent, or an appeal in the local paper might stir local memories.  This could narrow down where he could have been sent.

Good hunting
Philip
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Tuesday 19 April 16 16:25 BST (UK)
Thanks, Philip I'm  Sure she will know the school, what if it's not there anymore?
I really want to help her find her brother .
cheers
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Blue70 on Tuesday 19 April 16 17:23 BST (UK)
As others have said check the 1939 Register and death indexes. You can then purchase the death certificate from the GRO:-

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

Next step to find out where he is buried. That could be either where he was evacuated or near where his family lived.


Blue
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 19 April 16 23:42 BST (UK)
Ow thanks
He was from Bethnal Green London , and yes she thinks he stayed in this country.
     Go to the main Library in Bethnal Green, and ask if they can recommend  a local history expert,  who may be able  to suggest the area that local school children were evacuated to.  Herefordshire or Warwickshire or Oxfordshire,  or whatever?
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Wednesday 20 April 16 08:45 BST (UK)
That is a great idea , may have to call them ,as It is a bit of a trek from Suffolk.
I never realised the children and their families  had no idea at the time where they were going to .
How times have changed, I can never imagine sending my children to strangers , but I have never been it that desperate situation.
I really hope I can help my neighbour find her brother

Who at the moment feels frozen in time as 7 years old  .


Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: philipsearching on Wednesday 20 April 16 08:59 BST (UK)
A local newspaper for the area around Bethnal Green  is the Docklands and East London Advertiser http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/contact-us
Most local newspapers like "human interest" stories, so they may be willing to print an article asking their readers for information about where children were evacuated.

Or you could try:
Tower Hamlets Local History Library and Archives
277 Bancroft Road, London E1 4DQ
Phone: 020 7364 1290
e-mail: localhistory@towerhamlets.gov.uk
website: http://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/lgnl/leisure_and_culture/local_history/local_history__archives/local_history__archives.aspx
All the best
Philip
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Wednesday 20 April 16 11:55 BST (UK)
Thank you, Philip
She is giving me all the info today and I am looking forward to helping her .
Pretty sure he went to Oxford.
He had a brother who went with him but they separated the children  , and he never saw his brother again.
 The family was told he died of the Measles age abt 7.

The other brother made it back but died some time ago.
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Rena on Wednesday 20 April 16 13:24 BST (UK)
How awful for the little boy and his family to be separated at a time of illness.  I had measles during the war and apparently my parents thought they would lose me.  Thank goodness we now have modern vaccines.   I've found a chart showing the number of cases and deaths caused by measles during WWII (see below) and underneath I've pasted two recent years to demonstrate the difference.


Year       Notifications    Total Deaths
1940       409,521    857
1941       409,715    1,145
1942       286,341    458
1943       376,104    773
1944       158,479    243
1945       446,796    729
1946       160,402    204

2010       2,235    0
2011       2,355    1
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Wednesday 20 April 16 13:36 BST (UK)
Hi Rena
Great picture on your profile

That is a huge number of deaths
thank god for vaccines, my son has just had one for Meningitis at school.
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: barryd on Wednesday 20 April 16 13:49 BST (UK)
An interesting article on evacuees from Bethnal Green. From WW2 People's War. Originally published by Lilian Henrietta Brooks and reproduced noncommercialy.

Also a regular child evacuee would be too young to be available on the 1939 Indexes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/25/a3437525.shtml
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Wednesday 20 April 16 13:59 BST (UK)
Cheers Barry,
Just been reading an article about the horrendous tube disaster in Bethnal green in 1943 it was a witness account .
On the Stairway to Heaven Memorial.


Thanks for the link
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Blue70 on Wednesday 20 April 16 14:25 BST (UK)
An interesting article on evacuees from Bethnal Green. From WW2 People's War. Originally published by Lilian Henrietta Brooks and reproduced noncommercialy.

Also a regular child evacuee would be too young to be available on the 1939 Indexes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/25/a3437525.shtml

In this case the person concerned died in childhood so their details should be visible on the 1939 Register at FindMyPast.


Blue
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: nestagj on Wednesday 20 April 16 14:26 BST (UK)
What about the school minute books/ records / governors reports- they should be available at the local archive or possibly the national archive - I think there are some on either FindMyPast or ancestry but I'm not sure if they are too early tho'.

I have recently been reading a lot about the War in London during the blitz both fiction and non fiction and from  what I have read it was the WRVS who were very involved in organising the evacuation with help on the scene from the WI and other Women's Groups

If they believe he died there should be a death record - or is it a common name. 

Hope you find the information

Nesta

Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Wednesday 20 April 16 17:31 BST (UK)
Thanks Nesta
If that is your interest, have you read the accounts of the Bethnal Green tube disaster during the blitz .
It sent a shiver up my spine and made me think of Hillsborough .
Cheers
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: a-l on Wednesday 20 April 16 18:20 BST (UK)
I am still in contact with a lady who was evacuated along with her twin sister to my Grandparents. Their evacuation from Yorkshire was arranged by the school and teachers accompanied them. The teachers stayed for a week to see the children were settled in their new homes and schools. Once they were settled their parents were given their addresses and allowed to visit. I hope that reassures you a little.
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Thursday 21 April 16 10:41 BST (UK)
Hi
I have the information on the little lad but still can't place him .
I have a name of a local historian in Tower Hamlets who is connected to the library in Bethnal Green sent him an e-mail no response yet.

Poor little fella, he died in a strange place age 6/7 with no family for support.
It would be really nice to find his grave.
But as I know from past searches sometimes they are no longer there .

Let me know if you have any more ideas .

Cheers
 
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 21 April 16 10:44 BST (UK)
Did you look for a death for him on FreeBMD?  A death registration will be much easier to find than a burial.

We could help more easily if we knew his details, but if you don't want to post them here feel free to send me a PM and I will happily have a look.
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Thursday 21 April 16 11:17 BST (UK)
I think I have found him on the death register on Ancestry

His name is Raymond Stevenson born in 1935 in Bethnal-green I do have the street name .
we think he went to Oxfordshire
and I think I have found him
registration district Ploughley Oxfordshire died 1941
The date is a year out
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 21 April 16 11:30 BST (UK)
OK so:

Birth registration is Raymond P Stevenson, mother's maiden name Webb, Jun qtr 1935 Stepney.

Death registration is Raymond P Stevenson aged 5, Mar qtr 1941 Ploughley 3a 3303.

The death certificate would provide details such as address and cause of death, and the identity of the informant may be of interest to your friend too.
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Thursday 21 April 16 11:37 BST (UK)
I Want to be really sure it is him before I tell my friend, is there any other way of finding where he stayed and the name of the family .
I guess they are not alive now anyway

Thanks so much
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 21 April 16 11:43 BST (UK)
No, there is no other way of finding out more other than purchasing the death certificate (for £9.25 from GRO Online).

Does your friend know what his "P" middle name was so that you can check it's the same on the certificate? For what it is worth there was no other Raymond P Stevenson born in or around 1935 so the death you've found is likely to correspond with the 1935 birth.

His older brother was Eric John Stevenson I think, 1928-1980?
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Thursday 21 April 16 11:49 BST (UK)
You are so good  :)

My friend never knew he had a middle name
but spot on with the brother were did you get that from??????
Going to tell her to order the death certificate .
I am sure she would like to see the grave if it is still there .
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: philipsearching on Thursday 21 April 16 12:09 BST (UK)
You are so good  :)

My friend never knew he had a middle name
but spot on with the brother were did you get that from??????
Going to tell her to order the death certificate .
I am sure she would like to see the grave if it is still there .

The death certificate won't tell you where the grave would be.  However, it should give the address where the death occurred and the name of the informant.  This could help you find where he was living.

Assuming this is the right Raymond, the next step would be to find the grave.  A Rootschatter may be able to check Oxfordshire parish records.  It is quite possible that there may be something in the local newspaper.  And with luck there will be a local Rootschatter who could visit the cemetery with a camera.

Good hunting.
Philip
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 21 April 16 12:12 BST (UK)
Their parents married in Bethnal Green in 1925.  If you look at FreeBMD for Stevenson births with mother's maiden name Webb in London 1925-1945 you'll see the various birth registrations for the family (plus a few unrelated ones).

Mum & boys appear to have been in Norfolk immediately before the war, though who knows how long for.  You can see the 1939 Register for yourself on Findmypast.
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Thursday 21 April 16 12:21 BST (UK)
Thank you
My friend is over the moon at finding her young brother .
She is going to order a death certificate and hopefully gain some more information from that.

cheers
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Janelle on Thursday 21 April 16 14:06 BST (UK)
There is in the 1939 register ...

Eric J dob 3 Feb 1928 and Raymond dob 6 Jun 1935 at the home of the Hornigold family, 47 Loke Road, King's Lynn M.B., Norfolk, England.

Interestingly there is also Emma Stevenson, married, dob 18 Jan 1902 with them ?

Could this be where they were evacuated to ...

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=TNA%2FR39%2F6525%2F6525J%2F004%2F43

Were there evacuations before the register?

Salute,

Janelle
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Thursday 21 April 16 14:19 BST (UK)
Ow Janelle ,
I am totally gobsmacked , what does this mean ?
The information is totally right the ages are perfect but I have got little Raymond dying in Ploughley Oxfordshire.


mEric J dob 3 Feb 1928 and Raymond dob 6 Jun 1935 at the home of the Hornigold family, 47 Loke Road, King's Lynn M.B., Norfolk, England.

Interestingly there is also Emma Stevenson, married, dob 18 Jan 1902 with them ?

I need help.arrrrrrrrrrrr
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Janelle on Thursday 21 April 16 14:26 BST (UK)
Maybe they were visiting this family, and not evacuated there?

Maybe the evacuation was later?

Wow .. a mystery. You and your friend have got to get the death cert to satisfy MY curiosity now.  ;D

Salute,

Janelle
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Thursday 21 April 16 14:43 BST (UK)
If the year was 1939  Raymond would have been too young to be staying with anyone surely, he would have been 3/4.

What  a mystery ??? ???
I love the profile picture who is it.

He died in 1941 I am not sure what to think now I have ordered the death certificate but I have put Ploughley Oxfordshire will they find him where ever he is???????
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 21 April 16 14:47 BST (UK)
If the year was 1939  Raymond would have been too young to be staying with anyone surely, he would have been 3/4.


He was with his mother and brothers in 1939.  They may just have been making a short autumn visit to friends/relations - nothing more significant than that.  Or they may have been formally evacuated, as many women and children were from London in September 1939.  Emma Stevenson must have gone back to London in due course, as if your friend's name begins with B it looks as though she was born in Bethnal Green in 1941.

The death record from Ploughley district will tell you where he died within that district.  As it is a child's death certificate it should also state (in the "occupation" box) the name of his father (so "son of John Stevenson") though in an evacuation situation the details may not have been accurately known.

Do let us know when the certificate arrives.
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Thursday 21 April 16 15:01 BST (UK)
Thanks, AMV,

My friend is busy trying to work out what her mother was doing in Kings Lynn.
As she doesn't think they have any relatives there.

 :)
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Thursday 21 April 16 15:06 BST (UK)
The B is her sister Beryl
your such a pro at this  ;)
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 21 April 16 15:06 BST (UK)
The evacuation of women and children from London started at the beginning of September 1939, but many returned home to London by early 1940 when the expected bombing raids had not (yet) happened.  There were then later rounds of evacuation in 1940 (and later) as the war intensified - which may be when the Stevenson boys went to Oxfordshire.  See the link for more:

www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-evacuated-children-of-the-second-world-war

Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Thursday 21 April 16 15:17 BST (UK)
Thank you will have a look

 I have to tell you this, as on Ancestry 1911 census there is a George Horingold from Bethnal Green living in Norfolk  slightly different spelling but could be a friend   ;D

Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Janelle on Thursday 21 April 16 23:38 BST (UK)
If the year was 1939  Raymond would have been too young to be staying with anyone surely, he would have been 3/4.

What  a mystery ??? ???
I love the profile picture who is it.

He died in 1941 I am not sure what to think now I have ordered the death certificate but I have put Ploughley Oxfordshire will they find him where ever he is???????

Betty,

The pretty lady was my great grandmother Minnie.  The kind folks here at RC cleaned the brown mark from between her brows and gave a stylish twist to her painted photo c 1897. Sadly she died young.

Salute,
Janelle
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Friday 22 April 16 07:44 BST (UK)
Beautiful
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Friday 22 April 16 13:36 BST (UK)
Hi Janelle
,Question , I am getting hooked on this genealogy . I am with Ancestry but only just found out about the 1939 register , so have signed up for a two week free trial with find my past but it doesn't.
 give you asses to the register, but is it worth having ???

Did you also see that the Hornigold family you found in Kings Lynn lived, in Bethnal-green for a time?
They had a son George when they lived there and It was his house that Little Raymond was staying in.
Unless I am wrong and it is just coincidence.

What do you think, family friends ????
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Betty19 on Friday 22 April 16 13:38 BST (UK)
I forgot to add she had another two children at home and her husband was away in the Army.
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Blue70 on Friday 22 April 16 13:41 BST (UK)
Some libraries provide free access to Ancestry and/or FindMyPast.


Blue
Title: Re: Evacuees
Post by: Janelle on Sunday 24 April 16 05:32 BST (UK)
Hi Janelle
,Question , I am getting hooked on this genealogy . I am with Ancestry but only just found out about the 1939 register , so have signed up for a two week free trial with find my past but it doesn't.
 give you asses to the register, but is it worth having ???

Did you also see that the Hornigold family you found in Kings Lynn lived, in Bethnal-green for a time?
They had a son George when they lived there and It was his house that Little Raymond was staying in.
Unless I am wrong and it is just coincidence.

What do you think, family friends ????

Hey, I got the 1939 register access as extra to my yearly FindMyPast sub, and was delighted to find your friend's guys because I have not found many 1939 records for my own family. My Irish rellies are obviously not there, my Devon grandma emigrated 1914 and my English-born OH does not wish me to research his folks. :'(  ::)

I've looked about a little bit in the family trees for the Webbs and Hornigolds and haven't found a connection.  :-\

I reckon family friends is quite likely theory and is a nice "story" for Eric and Raymond being with the Hornigolds.  :D ;D

Salute,

Janelle