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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Flintshire => Wales => Flintshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: cherylg on Monday 18 April 16 16:09 BST (UK)

Title: Ruth Lewis
Post by: cherylg on Monday 18 April 16 16:09 BST (UK)
Hi
Can anybody help please.

My Gt Grandmother x3 was born Ruth Lewis in Buckley Flintshire in approx 1816 she died in 1878 in Cheshire.
She married John Spencer in 1840 and they are living in Flintshire on the 1841 Census.
From her marriage certificate I have found out that her father was an Edward Lewis (Brick Maker.)
On the same 1841 Census Ruth and John are next door to an Edward Lewis (Brick maker)and His Wife Catherine.Who I presumed were her parents.Which I know is a mistake never presume!!!
I cannot find a birth on the Flintshire Parish records for Ruth Lewis with parents Edward Lewis and Catherine.
I have found one but it says her parents were Edward Lewis and Ann Griffith
Can anybody suggest what I do now as I am out of idea's.
Many thanks
Cheryl
Title: Re: Ruth Lewis
Post by: Shep on Monday 18 April 16 17:02 BST (UK)
Perhaps Anne died and Edward remarried Catherine.
Look for burial of Ann Lewis and a second marriage for Edward.
Title: Re: Ruth Lewis
Post by: cherylg on Monday 18 April 16 17:31 BST (UK)
Hi

I tried that but no luck ,I have now found Edward Lewis with Wife Ann also on the 1841/1851 and 1861 Census in Flintshire
So it cant be that.
Its looking like they are two Edward Lewis's one a Stone Mason and one a Brickmaker, one with wife of Ann and one with a wife called Catherine.
Thanks for your suggestion I appreciate it.

Rgds
Cheryl


Title: Re: Ruth Lewis
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 18 April 16 17:33 BST (UK)
Where is Ruth living in 1841 - Spotted it- Denbighshire
Title: Re: Ruth Lewis
Post by: cherylg on Monday 18 April 16 18:01 BST (UK)
Hi

By 1841 she was married to my Gt Grandfather x 3 John Spencer  they were living as below

Name   Ruth Spencer
Age   20
Estimated Birth Year   abt 1821
Gender   Female
Civil parish   Henllan
Hundred   Isaled
County/Island   Denbighshire
Country   Wales
Registration district   St Asaph
Sub-registration district   Denbigh

Next door is :
Name   Edward Lewis
Age   50
Estimated Birth Year   abt 1791
Gender   Male
Civil parish   Henllan
Hundred   Isaled
County/Island   Denbighshire
Country   Wales
Registration district   St Asaph
Sub-registration district   Denbigh
Piece   1402
Book   5
Folio   6
Page number   4
Household Members   
Name   Age
Edward Lewis   50
Catherine Lewis   50


This is real mystery.
By 1851 she had moved to Acton in Cheshire where she remained until her death in 1878.

This is Edward and Catherine in 1851

Name   Edward Lewis
Age   62
Estimated Birth Year   abt 1789
Relation   Head
Spouse's Name   Catherine Lewis
Gender   Male
Where born   Mold, Flintshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township   Henllan
Town   Lleweni Isaf
County/Island   Denbighshire
Country   Wales
Registration district   St Asaph
Sub-registration district   Abergele
ED, institution, or vessel   2g
Piece   2507
Folio   351
Page number   1
Household schedule number   1
Household Members   
Name   Age
Edward Lewis   62
Catherine Lewis   70

Thankyou for trying to help me

Rgds
Cheryl
Title: Re: Ruth Lewis
Post by: Shep on Tuesday 19 April 16 21:48 BST (UK)
Edward and Anne look favourite as the parish of Bistre is next to Buckley. Buckley is famous for  Bricks and Pottery so the 2 trades aren't necessarily not interchangeable.
I think the Ruth Lewis of Ewloe Wood (parents Thomas and Mary) marries Thomas Jones as she is still in Ewloe Wood per the marriage entry.
Title: Re: Ruth Lewis
Post by: cherylg on Tuesday 19 April 16 23:12 BST (UK)
Hi

I am beginning to think that Ruth's parents were Edward and Ann not Edward and Catherine.
I have found a birth for  Ruth with parents Edward and Ann.
But how can I be sure that they are her parents?
Rgds
Cheryl
Title: Re: Ruth Lewis
Post by: RunKitty on Saturday 23 April 16 21:23 BST (UK)
She married John Spencer in 1840 and they are living in Flintshire on the 1841 Census.
From her marriage certificate I have found out that her father was an Edward Lewis (Brick Maker.)

Hi,

The only 1840 marriage I can see for Ruth Lewis and John Spencer is in Wrenbury Cheshire.  Her father Edward Lewis is listed as a "labourer" on the certificate.  I don't see "brick maker" on there.

Are you looking at the 1816 baptism record from the Bethesda Calvinistic Methodist Church in Mold?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FMM6-4JC

Edward is listed as brickmaker here.  Says that Edward and his wife Ann Griffiths live in Bistre, Mold.

RK
Title: Re: Ruth Lewis
Post by: RunKitty on Saturday 23 April 16 21:42 BST (UK)
Is an Isaac Lewis with the same parents, baptized in the same place in 1820

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FMM6-2N5

Edward also listed as brickmaker, living in Bistre, Mold.

RK
Title: Re: Ruth Lewis
Post by: RunKitty on Saturday 23 April 16 22:13 BST (UK)
Having a look at Isaac... sometimes a "sibling search" can yield some answers...

Isaac is married to Mary in 1841 and living in St. Asaph.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M77T-H2V

Same in 1851
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKVB-46NC

Same in 1861
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7VC-C6P

1871, he is back in Bistre Mold. 
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5PP-CNP

Looks like he died in Mold in 1874. 
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC5G-JLT

Was hoping to find a mother or father living with him on one of the censuses... :'(.

RK
Title: Re: Ruth Lewis
Post by: RunKitty on Saturday 23 April 16 22:46 BST (UK)
Back to the idea that Ann might have died and Edward remarried Catherine...

I had a look at burials in Bistre for "Ann Lewis" between 1820 and 1840.  There is one that might fit... Ann Lewis of Bistre died 1822 aged 31. 

Perhaps you could find out what her tombstone says... (assuming there is one still standing, or that had been transcribed at some point).

Found a burial record from Bistre for a Catherine Lewis... born about 1783 died 1870.  Living in Argoed, but late of St. Asaph. 

Perhaps her tombstone is transcribed?   I wonder who she is buried with??

RK
Title: Re: Ruth Lewis
Post by: RunKitty on Saturday 23 April 16 22:54 BST (UK)
I wonder if you could find a Will for Edward Lewis .... to see if a daughter Ruth is mentioned.  That would help!

Looked for an Edward born sometime in the 1780s-1790s buried in Bistre (will start there first).  There is one, who died in 1866... address the Blue Bell, and was a publican.  Lots of my Welsh ancestors ended up being publicans after doing something else - so could be him.

He did leave a Will, but unfortunately, it doesn't list a wife or daughter as executor!!  Argh!!!
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=lewis&yearOfDeath=1866&page=8#calendar

Still a possibility... but may be a wild goose chase!

You could check for deaths/burials in St. Asaph for Edward of the right sort of age too.  Perhaps you could find a corresponding Will. 

So, chasing down siblings, or parents' Wills doesn't seem to yield a definitive answer :'(.  I would suggest you see if you can find some Bistre Monumental Inscriptions to see if any Lewis tombstones there could tell you anything useful.  You might even consider ordering a Will or two - if anything looks likely. 

All I can think of for now...

RK
Title: Re: Ruth Lewis
Post by: Shep on Sunday 24 April 16 16:48 BST (UK)
Back to the idea that Ann might have died and Edward remarried Catherine...

I had a look at burials in Bistre for "Ann Lewis" between 1820 and 1840.  There is one that might fit... Ann Lewis of Bistre died 1822 aged 31. 

Perhaps you could find out what her tombstone says... (assuming there is one still standing, or that had been transcribed at some point).

Found a burial record from Bistre for a Catherine Lewis... born about 1783 died 1870.  Living in Argoed, but late of St. Asaph. 

Perhaps her tombstone is transcribed?   I wonder who she is buried with??

RK

I've checked the transcribed Monumental Inscriptions for Bistre Emmanuel. Lots of Lewis's but no Anne or Catherine (or Edward or Isaac) for those dates. The MI's were transcribed by the Clwyd Famiily History Society in 2002 of which I have purchased copies.
Title: Re: Ruth Lewis
Post by: cherylg on Monday 25 April 16 21:13 BST (UK)
Hi

Thank you so much for your replies.

I have now found the birth for Ruth Lewis born in 1816 with parents Edward Lewis and Ann Griffiths, on every Census Ruth states she was born in Buckley Flintshire on the birth it states Bistre Flintshire is that the same sort of area?
It states her father as a Brickmaker.
This is the only birth I can find for Ruth Lewis born that year with a father of Edward.
I know her birth year is correct because we have a funeral plaque which has here picture on a states her age at death is also agrees with every Census.

On Ruth's marriage certificate in 1840 it states her father was a labourer

On the 1841 Census John and Ruth Spencer (nee Lewis) were living next door to an Edward Lewis and Catherine on the Census Edward is listed as a Brickmaker.

I have now looked for Issac Lewis and I agree they had the same parents.



I know some families carry names down in the family so I looked at that but John and Ruth had children called Ann and Catherine so that didn't help.

Does anybody know where and which church would have the baptism records for Buckley?

I am struggling what to do next

Rgds
Cheryl
Title: Re: Ruth Lewis
Post by: Shep on Monday 25 April 16 21:41 BST (UK)
At that time Bistre and Buckley were separate parishes next to each other. St Matthews is the main church for BUckley (there is also St Johns). Bistre Emmanuel is the other church which I checked for you for M.I's. You need to check these churches for baptisms next.
Title: Re: Ruth Lewis
Post by: RunKitty on Monday 25 April 16 23:03 BST (UK)
Hi,

You can use familysearch - fill in the last name (no first name), parents' names, and place of birth as Flintshire.  That is how I found Isaac.  This works if you don't know the specific church.   

Pretty sure that some of my ancestors who used Bistre Emmanuel church said "Buckley" as place of birth on some censuses. 

Some information on the Bethesda Methodist Church in Mold (where Ruth and Isaac were baptized)
 http://www.coflein.gov.uk/en/site/8194/details/BETHESDA+WELSH+CALVINISTIC+METHODIST+CHAPEL%2C+NEW+STREET%2C+MOLD/

You can see churches in Buckley here (scroll down)
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/FLN/Buckley

RK