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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Berkshire => Topic started by: shella_n on Sunday 17 April 16 12:29 BST (UK)

Title: Ralphs at Wantage Workhouse
Post by: shella_n on Sunday 17 April 16 12:29 BST (UK)
Hi There

Im actually from Berkshire but I live in Australia now.

I believe my 3x GGF William Francis Ralph (known as Francis)  born  approx 1857 was in Wantage Workhouse with his brother, also called William born 1853.  the first time I found them in the workhouse was 1971 when my GGF was 14.  My GGF left the workhouse and had a great life living abroad but sadly his brother lived out his days at the workhouse (this is assuming that my research thus far is all accurate).
I am trying to make sure that I have all the right information and also trying to trace their parents.  So, does anyone know if the workhouse records are available - it would be great to see when they went in and why?
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Ralphs at Wantage Workhouse
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 17 April 16 16:19 BST (UK)
Little odd to have two children named William even if one did use his middle name but I see the one in the workhouse is down as a lunatic so that's probably why he lived out his days there  :(

Birth certificate(s) would confirm the name of the parents - how do you know they were brothers?
Title: Re: Ralphs at Wantage Workhouse
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 17 April 16 16:24 BST (UK)
I can't see a William Francis birth but there is a William Edward birth Jun 1853 Wantage which covers Harwell (birthplace from 1871 census)
Title: Re: Ralphs at Wantage Workhouse
Post by: KGarrad on Sunday 17 April 16 16:51 BST (UK)
Info here re Wantage workhouse:
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Wantage/

Which says that any records are with Berkshire Record Office.
 Holdings include: Guardians' minute books (1835-1930); Births (1836-1913); Deaths (1835-66); etc.
Title: Re: Ralphs at Wantage Workhouse
Post by: ribbo39 on Sunday 17 April 16 20:39 BST (UK)
Hi,

In the Wantage transcripts there is a William Edward Ralph baptised 17-12-1854 the s/o Leah, Workhouse.
As no father is listed would presume that he was illegitimate.

There is also a burial for a William Ralph 14-4-1926 aged 72, The Downs, Newbury Road. which ties in nicely with the date of bapt. above.

The only other "Ralph's" were females with parents Henry & Ann in 1846 & 1854

I looked in the Harwell transcripts and see there is a Frederick William Ralph bapt... "no date" but in 1851 baseborn s/o Leah. This is possibly the same person listed above.

Alan
Title: Re: Ralphs at Wantage Workhouse
Post by: shella_n on Monday 18 April 16 09:49 BST (UK)
Hello

Many thanks for your responses - much appreciated.

I dont know that they are brothers  - its just a theory I am trying to work on.  My GGF full name was William Francis Ralph born 1857/1858 in Berkshire.  The options in the records are few.

The 1871 census shows a Fracnis Ralph aged 14 and William Ralph aged 19 both from Wantage, Berkshire.  In 1881 Francis is in Portsea in the military and then after that he does not appear in any census.  My GGF moved to India in approx 1886 so this all fits in.  The only was to know for sure of course is to get a birth certificate but I was hoping if I could get the Workhouse records that this might help.
Title: Re: Ralphs at Wantage Workhouse
Post by: suzard on Monday 18 April 16 10:43 BST (UK)
Hello

The 1871 census shows a Fracnis Ralph aged 14 and William Ralph aged 19 both from Wantage, Berkshire. 


1871 census has William & Francis in Wantage workhouse but William's p.o.b. is harwell Berks and Francis p.o.b. is Wantage

1881 William's p.o.b. is Wantage
1891 Harwell
1901 Harwell

Suz
Title: Re: Ralphs at Wantage Workhouse
Post by: suzard on Monday 18 April 16 10:57 BST (UK)
Hi,

In the Wantage transcripts there is a William Edward Ralph baptised 17-12-1854 the s/o Leah, Workhouse.
As no father is listed would presume that he was illegitimate.

There is also a burial for a William Ralph 14-4-1926 aged 72, The Downs, Newbury Road. which ties in nicely with the date of bapt. above.

The only other "Ralph's" were females with parents Henry & Ann in 1846 & 1854

I looked in the Harwell transcripts and see there is a Frederick William Ralph bapt... "no date" but in 1851 baseborn s/o Leah. This is possibly the same person listed above.

Alan

This looks like Frederick William Ralph in 1851
Harwell Berks
James Hoare Head single 21 Wheelwright
Leah Ralf lodger single 22 ag lab
Frederick Wm Ralf son 4mths
all b harwell Berks
HO107 1689 544

Leah Ralph appeared in court 22 Oct 1857 charged with larceny from the person -she was found not guilty
possibly William in the workhouse was another son of Leah??

1841 leah is in Harwell
Jesse Ralph 30 Sarah 35 Leah 12 Mary 8 William 5 Rachel 2

Suz
Title: Re: Ralphs at Wantage Workhouse
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 27 April 16 11:01 BST (UK)

1841 leah is in Harwell
Jesse Ralph 30 Sarah 35 Leah 12 Mary 8 William 5 Rachel 2

Suz

All have surname Day, but note on Ancestry giving alternative as Leah ralph.

There is a report in Oxford Chronicle and Reading Gazette 26 December 1846
of removal of Jesse Day, wife and four children and also Leah Ralph from Britwell to Harwell. The overseer of Britwell who applied for the order was a Mr Ralph (co-incidence?)
Title: Re: Ralphs at Wantage Workhouse
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 27 April 16 11:15 BST (UK)
In 1861, 10 year old Frederick Ralf (sic) is with grandparents Jesse and Sarah Day in Harwell. Can't find Leah and her younger son.
Title: Re: Ralphs at Wantage Workhouse
Post by: suzard on Wednesday 27 April 16 14:09 BST (UK)
Hi - there are trees on A*****y with (what looks like) "your" William Francis

one tree has the mother as Leah Ralph  and then has William Francis (as your findings) Workhouse/Navy/ marrying in India - no place for him 1861 census

the other has father Charles Ralph who died 1859 and mother Mary - then 1871/81 census as you found and  him marrying in india

I have found 1861 census which may be him - if the second tree is more correct

very detailed census

1861
Uffington
Francis Spendlo (on other records spellt as Spindler Spendlow) Head Married 60 Carter
Maria Spendlo wife 42 a poor cripple for years from accident with threshing machine
Henry Spendlo son M 24 labor
Jane Spendlo daughter 6 labor?
Children be her(Maria?) first marriage
Mary Ralph daughter in law Married (should this be widow?) 25 field work
Charles Ralph son in law(stepson?) single 18 shepher
Charlotte Ralph daughter 16 labor
John Ralph son 15 Labor
Mary Ralph's children
Eliza Ralph granddaughter 5 scholar
WILLIAM RALPH grandson 3 scholar
Elizabeth Ralph granddaughter 2months
All born Wantage

will delve a little more into this

Suz
rg9 729 21 11
Title: Re: Ralphs at Wantage Workhouse
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 27 April 16 14:14 BST (UK)
Quote from LizzieL;
There is a report in Oxford Chronicle and Reading Gazette 26 December 1846
of removal of Jesse Day, wife and four children and also Leah Ralph from Britwell to Harwell. The overseer of Britwell who applied for the order was a Mr Ralph (co-incidence?)

Marriage;
24 December 1831, St Matthew, Harwell, Berkshire
Jesse DAY, Bachelor
Sarah DAY, Spinster
(Source FreeREG)

Familysearch has a submitted christening (I cant confirm this)
Leah RALPH, 10 June 1829, Harwell, Parents Sarah Ralph and Jesse Day
Title: Re: Ralphs at Wantage Workhouse
Post by: suzard on Wednesday 27 April 16 14:24 BST (UK)
this looks like the family in 1871 -but no William

I think the tree which has William Francis as the daughter of Charles Ralph and Mary is in error -as Mary appears to be unmarried in 1871
Possibly they mistook Charles Ralph (described as son in law in 1861 ) as father - but think he may be Mary's brother and "son in law"  = stepson???

1871
Uffington
Maria Spindler head widow 60 lab field
Mary Ralph daughter U 36 ag lab
Charles Ralph son U 26 ag lab
Eliza Ralph granddaughter 16 ag lab
Elizabeth Ralph granddaughter 10 scholar
Fanny Ralph granddaughter 8
Martha Ralph 6 Granddaughter
Stephen grandson 5
all b Uffington Berks
RG10 1259 23 14

Suz
Title: Re: Ralphs at Wantage Workhouse
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 27 April 16 14:27 BST (UK)
just found this

http://ukga.org/cgi-bin/browse.cgi?DB=8&action=ViewRec&bookID=7&page=26

Jesse Day married Sarah Ralph in Wantage oops meant Harwell, 24 dec 1831, so if Leah was born 1829ish, it looks like she was Sarah's daughter, either illeg or by 1st husband if Sarah was a widow.

Title: Re: Ralphs at Wantage Workhouse
Post by: ribbo39 on Wednesday 27 April 16 14:36 BST (UK)
Hi,
Quote from trish1120 "Familysearch has a submitted christening (I cant confirm this)
Leah RALPH, 10 June 1829, Harwell, Parents Sarah Ralph and Jesse Day"

I can confirm this bapt. taken from the Harwell transcripts (ex Oxford FHS) but it reads;
"8-6-1829 Leah Ralph natural d/o Sarah a Single Woman"

also the marriage is confirmed with the wits; Thomas Greenough, Joseph Johnson. Botp & after Banns.

I've also noted there is a marriage in Harwell thus;
4-6-1827 Henry Tidbury, b, of East Ilseley to Leah Ralph(x), sp, otp by Banns.
Wits; Letitia Day, Joseph Johnson
also for good measure;
3-9-1827 James Norris, b, to Rebecca Ralph(x), sp, otp By Banns;
Wits; Joseph Johnson, Mary Ann Ralf(x)

Alan
Title: Re: Ralphs at Wantage Workhouse
Post by: suzard on Wednesday 27 April 16 14:38 BST (UK)
I think we can dimiss the Charles and mary as being parents
The William Ralph found in 1861 -this looks like him in 1871
Ibstone berks
William Ralph Lodger 13 Ploughboy Uffington Berks
in household of Henry Turner and family
RG10 1257 78 22

(what looks like) this William Ralph can be found in census up to 1911!

Suz