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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Jeni63 on Friday 15 April 16 07:08 BST (UK)

Title: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: Jeni63 on Friday 15 April 16 07:08 BST (UK)
I have absolutely come to a dead end literally - looking for my great great grandmother Mary HOlmes married to John Holmes from Warrington the grandmother of my grandfather Frank Holmes and mother of his father Alfred holmes.   She does not appear in the 1881 census - and I know their children were scattered around the place at different relatives/friends.   I cant find any listing of death or could she have left could she have been institutionalised with TB etc - with a name like mary holmes it is very difficult any help would be so so so great,  Jen
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: garstonite on Friday 15 April 16 07:29 BST (UK)
Do you have an occupation for John Holmes and where were John and Mary in the 1871 census ?
what year was Frank born and where ?
this info will help us in your research  :)
...........................................
ADDED -for other members
John Holmes and Mary Lightfoot married 10th jan 1861 in Warrington - John was 22 / Mary 21 - so Mary Holmes would be 40 in the 1881 census

John Holmes father was Alfred Holmes
Mary Lightfoot father was James Lightfoot

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Ajohn~%20%2Bsurname%3Aholmes~%20%2Bmarriage_place%3Alancashire~%20%2Bmarriage_year%3A1850-1881~%20%2Bspouse_givenname%3Amary~%20%2Bspouse_surname%3Alightfoot~%20%2Brecord_country%3AEngland
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: Jeni63 on Friday 15 April 16 07:38 BST (UK)
yep 1871 shop 89 manchester lane and he is down as a painter, jen
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: garstonite on Friday 15 April 16 07:42 BST (UK)
is this the baptism of Mary Lightfoot ?

Baptism: 14 Apr 1839 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
Mary Lightfoot - [Child] of James Lightfoot & Mary
    Abode: Angel Yard
    Occupation: Labourer
    Baptised by: T V Bayne

and John Holmes the week before - same church - now that is unusual

Baptism: 7 Apr 1839 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
John Holmes - [Child] of Alfred Holmes & Ellen
    Abode: Stoke Staffs
    Occupation: Linen Draper
    Baptised by: Geo Richards
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: mosiefish on Friday 15 April 16 07:43 BST (UK)
yep 1871 shop 89 manchester lane and he is down as a painter, jen

89 is the schedule number not the number of the shop.

Mo
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: Jeni63 on Friday 15 April 16 07:45 BST (UK)
oops ta  :)
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: Jeni63 on Friday 15 April 16 07:50 BST (UK)
Garstonite that is correct - yep all info correct - she disappears after 1871 cant find her anywhere
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: garstonite on Friday 15 April 16 07:52 BST (UK)
Have you found John Holmes in the 1881 census ?...being a painter he could have moved around
Walkden is not that far from Warrington = 16 miles
this is the only burial I can find for a Mary Holmes at the right age -

Burial: 1 May 1879 St Paul, Walkden, Lancashire, England
Mary Holmes -
    Age: 38 years
    Abode: Little Hulton
    Buried by: C. Heath
I would make a note of it for future reference ....
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: Jeni63 on Friday 15 April 16 07:58 BST (UK)
better than I found LOL - thank you will see if I can find john holmes 1881 ta jen
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: mosiefish on Friday 15 April 16 08:00 BST (UK)
John is listed as a widower in 1881.  I wonder if she is the Mary Holmes who`s death is registered Runcorn aged 38 in 1877.

Mo
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: Jeni63 on Friday 15 April 16 08:17 BST (UK)
WELL finally found him live with the bibbys which is definitely the correct one - ok so maybe I should apply for the death certificate of the Mary HOlmes you suggested??  Where is Runcorn??  what is it how Do I find where she is buried etc etc
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: garstonite on Friday 15 April 16 08:19 BST (UK)
John is listed as a widower in 1881.  I wonder if she is the Mary Holmes who`s death is registered Runcorn aged 38 in 1877.

Mo

Mo - that would be more likely than I found in Walkden - I go through Runcorn to Walton Hall Park in Warrington - a couple of miles between them ....that looks very good to me  :)   a good find Mo
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: Jeni63 on Friday 15 April 16 08:20 BST (UK)
your both brilliant  :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: garstonite on Friday 15 April 16 08:21 BST (UK)
Jen - look at this map
Higher Walton is the beginning of Warrington - the border of Runcorn

http://www.theaa.com/route-planner/index.jsp#fromNode=0%7CRuncorn%7C%7C-2.729673%7C53.342078%7CtoNode=0%7CWarrington%7C%7C-2.596950%7C53.390044

Mo - that really looks a good find - I wonder If Mary Holmes died in Runcorn Hospital ?
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: Jeni63 on Friday 15 April 16 08:23 BST (UK)
not far at all!!!
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: Jeni63 on Friday 15 April 16 08:26 BST (UK)
where do I find the register of her death at runcorn????
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: garstonite on Friday 15 April 16 08:28 BST (UK)
Mo - you are spot on
Jen - although the death was registered in Runcorn - look at this
www.cheshirebmd.org.uk
deaths
1877
holmes mary
result
Mary Holmes - death - BUDWORTH ,WARRINGTON

looks good to me
Mo do I have that right ?...
 :)
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: Jeni63 on Friday 15 April 16 08:32 BST (UK)
WOW WOW WOW - Do I contact these people for burial info and also death certificate info????
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: Jeni63 on Friday 15 April 16 08:33 BST (UK)
wow again being here in Australia its so hard to trace info
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: garstonite on Friday 15 April 16 08:37 BST (UK)
Lets wait for Mo - I think she knows that area better than I do  :)   It looks like your Mary - but I might be wrong ...lets see what Mo says  ;)
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: Jeni63 on Friday 15 April 16 08:41 BST (UK)
thanks I have been searching for years and thought I may never find her sad if I couldnt :)
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: mosiefish on Friday 15 April 16 08:48 BST (UK)
Lets wait for Mo - I think she knows that area better than I do  :)   It looks like your Mary - but I might be wrong ...lets see what Mo says  ;)

I only went away for a bite to eat and there is another whole page  ;D  I am afraid I don`t know the area well, but I know the river Mersey separates the two registrataion districts.

Mo
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: garstonite on Friday 15 April 16 08:50 BST (UK)
Jen - Oh Dear - I have found a death in dec qtr 1877 for a Mary Frances Holmes aged 0 in Warrington on freebmd.org.uk
I fear that may be the one on cheshirebmd.org.uk   although on cheshire the middle name of Frances isn't transcribed ?
I don't think the Budworth,Warrington death is yours  :'(
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: garstonite on Friday 15 April 16 08:59 BST (UK)
this gives that Runcorn death as b 1839 - so it is by far the best bet

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&englishSubcountryName=Cheshire&query=%2Bgivenname%3Amary~%20%2Bsurname%3Aholmes~%20%2Bdeath_place%3Aruncorn~%20%2Bdeath_year%3A1877-1877~%20%2Brecord_country%3AEngland%20%2Brecord_subcountry%3A%22England%2CCheshire%22
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: BumbleB on Friday 15 April 16 09:31 BST (UK)
Very confusing  :-\

Mary Frances death registered Warrington, aged 0 - FreeBMD
Mary death registered Runcorn, aged 38 - FreeBMD - covers Great Budworth

Mary, no age entered - Budworth, registers at Warrington - CheshireBMD

Budworth Sub-District
Created 1 July 1837. Abolished 1 April 1937. In Runcorn Registration District

Acton Grange (1891-1937), Antrobus, Appleton, Bartington, Crowley, Daresbury (1891-1937), Dutton (1891-1937), Grappenhall (1895-1937), Great Budworth, Hatton (1891-1937), Higher Whitley, Keckwick (1891-1937), Latchford Without (1895-1937), Lower Whitley, Moore (1891-1937), Newton by Daresbury (1891-1937), Preston on the Hill (1891-1937), Seven Oaks, Stockton Heath, Stretton, Thelwall (1891-1937), Walton Inferior (1891-1937), Walton Superior (1891-1937).

Records now held at Warrington.


Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: Jeni63 on Friday 15 April 16 09:42 BST (UK)
 :) I think the Runcorn sounds the most likely do you know if there was an hospital or asylum there???  I think I should apply for the death certificate what do you think ???
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: mosiefish on Friday 15 April 16 09:44 BST (UK)
She was buried on 22 July, 1877 at St. Elphins, Warrington abode Croley?, Budworth.

Mo
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: BumbleB on Friday 15 April 16 09:47 BST (UK)
Looks good!   :)
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: garstonite on Friday 15 April 16 09:53 BST (UK)
Agree - Croley is obviously Crowley - which Bumble has pointed out is covered by that Warrington list but it is confusing
Title: Re: re Mary holmes (nee lightfoot)
Post by: Jeni63 on Friday 15 April 16 10:43 BST (UK)
 :) :) that's brilliant.   It certainly seems to all fit.  I have so wanted to find her and what happened.  Holmes is such a common name in those parts.  So next step is to order death certificate.