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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Chapuys on Thursday 14 April 16 16:21 BST (UK)

Title: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: Chapuys on Thursday 14 April 16 16:21 BST (UK)
I'm not 100% sure of the name of the child in this will. I have underlined the name for you. The last name is Spinsby but Liby (my thought) just doesn't fit for the first name.
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: BumbleB on Thursday 14 April 16 16:23 BST (UK)
Lilly Spinsby  :-\

FreeBMD has a Lily Spinsby registered in West Ham, March quarter 1903

Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: LizzieW on Thursday 14 April 16 17:11 BST (UK)
I agree, Lilly.
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 14 April 16 17:16 BST (UK)
PARENTS Frederick George and Alice Emma Spinsby
born 18/02/1903
baptised 07/04/1904
at St Luke Limehouse
father's occupation music case maker
53 Blackthorn St

Louisa Maud

ps, If you are interested in a marriage for the parents he is listed under SPINOBY, took place 25th Dec 1887

Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: Chapuys on Thursday 14 April 16 17:20 BST (UK)
It cannot be the Lily Spinsby from 1903 then because the child in this will, her father is Lance Corporal William Spinsby.
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 14 April 16 17:33 BST (UK)
I am not sure what other information you need apart from the little girl mentioned

Loos as if I am barking up the wrong tree with parents I have shown above

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: BumbleB on Thursday 14 April 16 17:34 BST (UK)
OK, sorry about that  :'(

From Soldier's Effects database, his mother's name is Ellen.  He died 15 January 1915.
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 14 April 16 17:38 BST (UK)
Yes, James and Ellen are listed on 1891 census living in Clerkenwell with William and his other siblings

Do you think the little girl was born out of wedlock considering he left money to his mother for the child and not a named wife or mother of Lily?

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: Chapuys on Thursday 14 April 16 17:55 BST (UK)
I am not sure what other information you need apart from the little girl mentioned

Loos as if I am barking up the wrong tree with parents I have shown above

Louisa Maud

Sorry, I am in need of the name of the child in the will written above.

The earlier posters believe it says Lily (or Lilly) Spinsby and linked it to the 1903 birth of a Lily Spinsby. Unfortunately I stated it couldn't be that Spinsby because the father of the will is called William.

OK, sorry about that  :'(

From Soldier's Effects database, his mother's name is Ellen.  He died 15 January 1915.

Thank you, yes, William's mother is is Ellen. I got the will to help find more information about Ellen and then his child. This branch of the Spinsby family do not have many records after 1900ish (except William's brother Reginald who is my great great grandfather (Ellen is my 3rd great grandmother) and William's army death record.).


Yes, James and Ellen are listed on 1891 census living in Clerkenwell with William and his other siblings

Do you think the little girl was born out of wedlock considering he left money to his mother for the child and not a named wife or mother of Lily?

Louisa Maud

It could be, I can't find many details. The family are notorious in my research for disappearing and reappearing from records or because the records have been transcribed or even originally written wrong in official registers (so I'm guessing not very literate). I've found them as Spinsley, Spinby Sponsby, Splinsby, etc., or even because they were in workhouses and didn't record things. Ellen disappears in the 1890's and reappears in electoral rolls with her older daughter Louisa in the 1920's. Ellen is my brick wall, and I'm trying to build a picture around her at the moment.

Any other ideas if it isn't written Lilly? Or do everyone agree with this assessment.
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: StanleysChesterton on Thursday 14 April 16 18:14 BST (UK)
As I read it, he says he leaves it ... at ... name - then gives the name of Miss E ....

Libby is an abbreviation for Elizabeth.
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: Chapuys on Thursday 14 April 16 18:19 BST (UK)
As I read it, he says he leaves it ... at ... name - then gives the name of Miss E ....

Libby is an abbreviation for Elizabeth.

The will is left to Ellen Spinsby (his mum) in support of his child. This is confirmed in the Soldier's Effects database. I read the will as he inserted his child's name after he wrote the will to clarify who he meant as his child - that is why it is squished into the will.

However, thank you,  Libby is an interesting idea! I never thought of that.
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: Joney on Thursday 14 April 16 20:12 BST (UK)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=731847.0
Lilly was also used as a shortened form of Elizabeth. I had an aunt born 1909, recorded officially as Elizabeth, but always referred to as 'Lil'  or 'Lilly' with one or two Ls. See the link above.
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 14 April 16 22:19 BST (UK)
Lilly can also be a short form of Lillian or Lilith.
Carol
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: HeatherLynne on Thursday 14 April 16 22:29 BST (UK)
I also saw it as Libby and E probably for Elizabeth before I read the thread.
Heather
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 14 April 16 22:47 BST (UK)
I don't think the date of birth is known for this child, William himself was born 1885 so I suppose she could have been born after 1903 which would make him 18

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 14 April 16 23:03 BST (UK)
How about
Lily Spinspy
reg June qtr 1905
Holborn
Ref 1b 625

Just a suggestion, can't find a baptism though as yet

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 15 April 16 11:53 BST (UK)
How about this?
Lillian Spinsby
married
Charles W E Brown
Wandsworth
Sept qtr 1929

Perhaps you could check this on electoral registers and 1939

Louisa Maud

PS,
This couple appear to be in Wandsworth till about 1961 ish
2 children born Wandsworth Brown nee Spinsby
Derrick C W 1931
Beryl A 1939

This is supposition on my part and I could be barking up the wrong tree completely, I am throwing in the towel now ???
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 15 April 16 20:40 BST (UK)
My last piece of information on Lillian/Lilian and Charles Brown

Lillian  was born 12/05/1905 (registered June qtr 1905) and died 2001 Torbay
Charles was born 11/07/1905 and died 1987 Devon

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: Gibel on Saturday 16 April 16 09:22 BST (UK)
I thought it looked a bit like Lucy.
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: louisa maud on Saturday 16 April 16 09:35 BST (UK)
Pity we can't find Ellen on 1911, we might well find the grandchild living with her, that might have solved the problem, not that we are allowed to disclose the 1911 but for us Rootschatters it would have helped

We await a reply from the originator

LM
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: MelOfFife on Friday 22 April 16 06:53 BST (UK)
I cant look at records so ill just guess w the opinion of 'lucy'; as was stated above
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 22 April 16 16:22 BST (UK)
If you have gone with Lucy have you found a registration with the right surname

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: josey on Friday 22 April 16 17:20 BST (UK)
Do you think the little girl was born out of wedlock considering he left money to his mother for the child and not a named wife or mother of Lily?
Either William was married & the wife died or left OR the child was illegitimate but William acknowledged the child as his and attended the registration ...if there was one; whichever is the case, the child was known as Spinsby according to the will.

I have fiddled with the image in Paintshop & the 3rd letter could be taken as 'c', as if William wrote 'Lc' then realised he had to get in a 'u'; his 'c's do have a very curly start some look a bit like 'e'. However with no records at all for a Lucy Spinsby, my vote has to go for Lil[l]y. 
Title: Re: Name of child in WW1 Will
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 22 April 16 22:38 BST (UK)
so, do you think this might be the child you are searching as I mentioned previously

How about
Lily Spinspy
reg June qtr 1905
Holborn
Ref 1b 625

Just a suggestion, can't find a baptism though as yet

Louisa Maud