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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: kohlerkinfinder on Monday 11 April 16 03:11 BST (UK)
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Moses Macht, aka Mooscha Rabinowitsch, was born in 1842 in Lithuania and lived in Moscow. He immigrated to Baltimore in 1891. In 1896 he returned to Russia, for a commercial fair. On his return to Baltimore, by way of Hamburg, Germany, he died in Hamburg. His Hamburg death certificate http://goo.gl/gpqjrH lists his name as Mooscha Rabinowitsch. Did the Germans get his given name right?
Thanks.
Bonnie
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Who was the informant at is death? Family?
Was he known as Moses Macht when he lived in Baltimore?
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Thanks for your interest.
I can't tell who the informant was because I can't read German. I suspect it might have been someone staying at the same hotel in Hamburg. Moses died following Yom Kippur, so he might have been in contact with other Jews around that time. I believe he was traveling alone.
Yes, he went by the name of Moses Macht in Baltimore.
On a 23 Oct 1891 trip to Baltimore with his family, the Hamburg departure index shows his name as Marscha Rabinowitsch. It's difficult to read the name on the left side the actual 23 Oct 1891 Fürst Bismarck departure list http://goo.gl/s1yKvX.
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So taking the understandable variation in his name into consideration, what exactly are you trying to find out?
Mooscha/Marscha sounds very similar when you say it out loud. If the informant was an acquaintance he may not have been sure of his exact name, and would not have been asked to spell it, hence the differences I suspect.
Are you trying to confirm that this death in Hamburg is your ancestor Moses?
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There is enough circumstantial evidence in the death record for me to believe "Mooscha" is my person of interest. He died at the right place, at the right time, and after visiting the business fair in Nizhny Novgorod.
I have just never heard the name Mooscha - not that I would have because I've seldom been exposed to Lithuanian/Russian names. The name just seems a little off to me. I'm going to put the name in a family genealogy, and I don't want a made-up name to appear in a report that will be kept for posterity.
Again, thank you for your interest.
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You could do a work-around by stating the fact that his name was recorded in various ways. Yes, it will be recorded for posterity, but his death record, even though not as you spell the name, is also recorded for posterity.
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The "cha" suffix on the name suggests to me that it might be a diminutive (as with Ludka / Ludmilla).
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I appreciate your input, Peter.
I have asked someone to translate the German death record. I'm hoping there are clues to help with the name.
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If you are convinced that the death certificate is that of your ancestor, I believe that the difference in the name is insignificant and not enough to worry about.
Information on d/cs is the least reliable, so you need to look for instances of his name which he himself provided. Marriage? Children's births? Travel and immigration documents...
Get advice and opinions from others, but I think you may be over thinking this variation in his name.
Well worth getting the d/c translated though.
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I think this would be Moishe' already!!! ;D
Skoosh.
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I think this would be Moishe' already!!! ;D
Skoosh.
"MOISHE
Yiddish form of MOSES.
VARIANTS: Moses, Moshe"
http://www.behindthename.com/name/moishe (http://www.behindthename.com/name/moishe)
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Moishe would be reasonable; however, the given name on this Hamburg departure list - left column, not far from top - following "Rabinowitsch" doesn't look like Moishe http://goo.gl/s1yKvX. The Hamburg departure list indexers indexed the name as "Marscha." I think the German clerk who wrote the name would have recognized the Yiddish name Moishe. Maybe Moses pronounced his name "Mose-cha", and that's what is on the departure list.
A Russian speaker might be able to help with this.
Moses married his third wife, Jennie/Ida Heifetz, in Moscow after 1882. I might be able to locate their marriage record - but not on Ancestry, because I've already checked there. I am also going to try to locate the Lithuanian birth record for Moses.
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That link requires membership to view.
So you have a couple of possibilities for misinterpretation of his first name. He tells the German authorities his name when he departs - he has an accent - he may or may not speak German - they may or may not speak Lituanian - they write down what they think they hear - (you cannot presume that any clerks are familiar with any names) - the records are difficult to read - the indexers come along over 100 years later - they find the old writing difficult to read - German may not be the indexers first language - they make a best guess at what they see - German may be the indexers first language, perhaps a different dialect or they only know 'new' German - they don't recognize the name as being of German origin - they write what they think they see .... there are many different possible scenarios as to how they arrived at the name Marscha. This is also the same with his death record - there is plenty of opportunity for errors, misinformation and people just not knowing the man to give any details about him.
If this is definitely your ancestor how his name is written on one or two documents is irrelevant.
If you manage to find the Lithuanian record of his birth that may be different again. It is likely that he anglicised his name when he went to the USA, either intentionally or unintentionally (sometimes names people are known by, possibly easier to say, just stick, and they refer to themselves by this name as it is easier - hence being 'Moses' in the USA - he would never have to spell that).
We often see the one name written with different spellings in the same document written by the same person! So, a 'foreign' name in different countries on different documents written by different people and transcribed by different people is a prime candidate for variations. It would be nothing short of a miracle if is was the same on everything!
This also needs to be looked at in the context of the times - people were not so hung up on spellings as we are today, in fact some people would not have been able to spell, and it is very unlikely that they would have been asked how to spell their name.
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In analyzing the mystery of the name Mooscha Rabinowitsch, I have come to the conclusion that it was an assumed name used by Moses Macht, a Jew, when he returned to Russia to conduct business.
In a letter written by Moses's brother to a grandnephew in 1929, the brother stated the name Macht was theirs for many generations.
The only places in which the Rabinowitsch name appears is in the death record and subsequent burial by the Germans in Hamburg. There were no family members present to act as informants when Moses died. I believe the German authorities recorded Moses's identity based upon the identification papers on his person. The death record incorrectly records his religion, the name of his father, and the name of his wife.
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You have the death in Germany of someone you believe is your ancestor.
You are probably correct in that the details of that death would come from his ID papers if he was not a native German or if a visitor to the country.
But ....
His name is wrong.
His religion is wrong.
The name of his father Is wrong.
The name of his wife is wrong.
If nothing seems to tally with this being your ancestor, what leads you to believe this IS him? From what you implied earlier in this thread I thought you had circumstanial proof that the man who died in Germany was your ancestor. It now seems as though this is not the case.
Presumably you have some proof that Moses visited Russia and Germany during this period, but are you trying to make this German death "fit"? It would be ringing alarm bells with me if none of the written evidence proved Moosha and Moses were one and the same. :-\
See what advice others can give regarding this man. I am just playing devil's advocate not knowing the facts or which documents you may possess or proof, or not, you may have. :)
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Thanks for playing Devil's Advocate. It never hurts to have someone review the evidence - or lack of it.
Family history says Moses died on Yom Kippur in a hotel in Hamburg. Yom Kippur in 1896 was September 18, the date of Mooscha's death. He had visited the fair in Nizhny Novgorod and had planned to be gone two months. The fair was held in July; Moses died in September. Family history says, in the absence of family, Moses was buried in a Christian cemetery.
The death record says Mooscha died on September 18 in Hotel Kaiserhof at Bahnhofstrasse 11 in Hamburg. His recent residence was Nizhny Novgorod. His age of 53 years 10 months was approximately Moses's age.
History says he had booked passage on the SS Augusta Victoria, which sailed from Hamburg on the 24th of September. We know it was not unusual to wait up to two weeks in Hamburg to catch a ship.
Family history says Moses's wife in Baltimore went to Hamburg to ensure Moses was buried under proper Jewish customs. She couldn't have arrived in time for his burial. History says Mooscha was buried in a Christian cemetery. The burial record for Mooscha in the Jewish cemetery in Hamburg shows he was buried there 2 November 1896.
His wife, listed as Jenny Rabinowitsch, the correct age, departed Hamburg on 1 November 1896 - destination Baltimore.
Mooscha's memorial at Find a Grave shows he is buried in the Jewish section of Central Cemetery and notes he was from Baltimore and exhumed from Central Cemetery.
All this review of evidence caused me to review an outline scan of Mooscha's tombstone. I see the name Macht shown at the end of Mooscha Rabinowitsch. I don't understand the wording at the bottom of the stone.
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Very interesting. Well I suppose we are back to square one.
If the body was reinterred and this is noted in documents and the story passed down the family, then this must be your ancestor. His name is almost irrelevant, because unless you have facts as to why the difference in names, then all we can do is speculate as to how or why this happened, and as I originally stated, it probably comes down to a misinterpretation of his name.
The wording at the bottom of the stone might be worth translating if you can find a more legible image. I think the first two words are "A Jew ......."
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The wording on the bottom of the headstone:
Eine Jude, der Gott liebte
und für Frau und Kinder lebte
A Jew who loved God
and lived for his wife and children
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Mosche ist hebräischer Herkunft und die hebräische Aussprache von Mose(s).
Mosche is of Hebrew origin and the Hebrew pronunciation for Mose(s).
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosche
Other variants are Moische, Moishe, Moshe, Moyshe….
German: Mose(s) (hebräisch מֹשֶׁה Mošeh, modernes Hebräisch Mosche; griechisch Μωυσῆς, Μωσῆς Mō(y)sēs; arabisch مُوسَى Mūsā) ist die Zentralfigur im Pentateuch.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mose
English: Moses (/ˈmoʊzɪz, -zɪs/; Hebrew: מֹשֶׁה, Modern Moshe Tiberian Mōšéh ISO 259-3 Moše; Syriac: Moushe; Arabic: موسى Mūsā; Greek: Mωϋσῆς Mōÿsēs in both the Septuagint and the New Testament) is a prophet in Abrahamic religions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses
MOSES from the Hebrew name מֹשֶׁה (Mosheh) which is most likely derived from Egyptian mes meaning "son", but could also possibly mean "deliver" in Hebrew. The meaning suggested in the Old Testament of "drew out" from Hebrew משה (mashah) is probably an invented etymology. The biblical Moses was drawn out of the Nile by the pharaoh's daughter. He led the Jews out of captivity in Egypt and received the Ten Commandments from God.
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Bonnie,
Mooscha would be a possible phonetic spelling of the name Moische, Moishe, Moshe, Moyshe, which is simply the Yiddish version of the Hebrew name Moses. The rendering of the vowel sounds of one language in another is always difficult, especially if the second language does not really have the sounds of the first language.
So it is neither Russian, nor Lithuanian.
The Hebrew text at top of the gravestone reads Mosheh Aryeh bar Tsvi which means Mosheh-Aryeh son of Tsvi.
Rabinowitsch is itself a Germanized version of the Russian patronymical surname Rabinovi(t)ch meaning 'son of Rubin'.
Do you have any idea whereabouts in Lithuania he came from?
Justin