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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: ahowgego on Monday 11 April 16 02:15 BST (UK)

Title: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: ahowgego on Monday 11 April 16 02:15 BST (UK)
hi, im new here so i thought i would try a open question, im looking for the family of albert edward howgego M Ethel Margaret warren 1918 romford, essex. she was from (i think) felixstowe, colneis,ipswich suffolk. he was in the bedfordshire reg.#35919-530473 labour corps/
my name is andrew howgego original from essex
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: keyboard86 on Monday 11 April 16 03:53 BST (UK)
Hi and welcome to Rootschat, he married as plain Albert Howgego to Ethel M Warren Dec qtr 1918 Romford 4a 990, was his death 4th August 1960 at Oldchurch Hospital, Romford?

Keyboard86
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: ahowgego on Monday 11 April 16 04:07 BST (UK)
thanks,
Ive found more info here in a night than years of looking, I am trying to see how he fits in with my family tree, i think he had a daughter called caroline who married a bartlett. what does 4a 990 mean,
More inportantly i am procession of his service medals from ww1. which started me on this search.
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: keyboard86 on Monday 11 April 16 04:12 BST (UK)
Hi well the references are if you wish to purchase the marriage certificate and this will inform you of the father's of both Albert & Ethel, there is a probate record for him, Albert and Ethel MAY Howgego were living at the time of death at Alfresco, Clay Tye Road, North Ockendon, Essex, I think you will find Albert was b c 1888/9 and Ethel M b c 1894/5 possibly both Essex.
Keyboard86

PS a little concerned that the War Medals may possibly relate to another Albert?
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: ahowgego on Tuesday 12 April 16 01:38 BST (UK)
hi, i am concerned as well, these are not the Albert im looking for, Ethel Margaret warren was her full name, i just did a search and found 98 entries of Albert howgego,
So to start again, I have 2 medals bought at auction, with , pvt A.Howgego 35916 bedford regiment on the sides, i have the medal card details, but joining it to a person is confusing , what A howgego.
there is a solder from Canada buried in France. My A howgego I found out he was in the labor corps of the bdf reg. so that places him working with the corps up untill1918. bdfr has no records, any suggestions in where to start or do i just make a tree for all known suspects.
Andy howgego
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: keyboard86 on Tuesday 12 April 16 01:42 BST (UK)
 :) Hi again, so now we have you inferring that his full name was not Albert Edward Howgego on the medals is this correct?

Keyboard86
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: silvery on Tuesday 12 April 16 01:50 BST (UK)
About the daughter-
there is a birth,   

From freebmd  http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Ethel C Howgego, mmn Warren (middle name could be Caroline?)
Year 1924,  Quarter Sept,  district Woodbridge, vol number 4a, page 1737

Can't see any other Howgego/Warren children.
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: ahowgego on Tuesday 12 April 16 02:36 BST (UK)
the medal says A.Howgego
 The Roll of individuals states Howgego,Albert was issued A silver war badge for a wound, he enlisted 1/1/1917 and discharged for wounds on 1st August 1919.
Thats all i got. I was searching this Albert as he was the first that i started with from around the time line,
andy
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: keyboard86 on Tuesday 12 April 16 02:58 BST (UK)
thanks,
Ive found more info here in a night than years of looking, I am trying to see how he fits in with my family tree, i think he had a daughter called caroline who married a bartlett. what does 4a 990 mean,
More inportantly i am procession of his service medals from ww1. which started me on this search.

 :) Hi again, so now we are not certain if his first name is Albert/Arthur/Alan etc, the daughter marrying a Bartlett, just using the surname Howgego marrying a Bartlett brings up nothing, so can you supply just what you know/why you know that this was indeed a marriage?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: keyboard86 on Tuesday 12 April 16 03:06 BST (UK)
OK now found his medal card as Albert Howgego as you say Bedfordshire Regiment, Labour Corps, 35916 and also a 530473
Keyboard86
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: ahowgego on Wednesday 13 April 16 02:13 BST (UK)
to keyboard 86, The man i am looking for is Albert i pieced together the connection from serching records in suffolk, as i pulled up a census record from there, i cant remember the year now but he is what i had, albert edward, suffolk,ipswich, ipswich east, ipswich, M 41, st Margergets ipswich.
ethel Margaret, suffolk, felixstowe, colneis, woodbridge, F 22, ipswich, suffolk,
i think they had a child called caroline from a lone post on ancestrydotcom, but im not a member there so could not reply, wondering if it is worth joining
andy
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: silvery on Wednesday 13 April 16 09:16 BST (UK)
From freebmd (ref already given in other post)

Ethel C Howgego married Albert E Benfield in 1944    (Ethel middle name Caroline perhaps?)

District Romford, quarter September, page no 4a, vol 1188
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: keyboard86 on Wednesday 13 April 16 14:49 BST (UK)
to keyboard 86, The man i am looking for is Albert i pieced together the connection from serching records in suffolk, as i pulled up a census record from there, i cant remember the year now but he is what i had, albert edward, suffolk,ipswich, ipswich east, ipswich, M 41, st Margergets ipswich.
ethel Margaret, suffolk, felixstowe, colneis, woodbridge, F 22, ipswich, suffolk,
i think they had a child called caroline from a lone post on ancestrydotcom, but im not a member there so could not reply, wondering if it is worth joining
andy

Hi again Andy, why is this Caroline so relevant to this search, are the "Census"  ages you show from the same census as it would appear Albert is approximately 20 years older than Ethel?
Also I cannot locate a birth registration of both an Ethel Margaret Warren or a Caroline Howgego in the time frame!

And why pick a Suffolk Albert/Ethel?


Found Albert EDWARD Howgego he was 41 and single in 1911?

And Ethel Margaret HOWGEGO 22 was single living in Woodbridge?
So a Howgego to a Howgego marriage?

Should also point out as the Ethel Margaret HOWGEGO in the above 1911 was b c 1889, their is a death of an Ethel M Howgego June qtr 1966 Gipping 4b 874 aged 77?

And finally, how do you know the medals you purchased have anything to do with your family?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 13 April 16 18:18 BST (UK)
Not sure which Albert you are looking at but 30 September 1916 in the Essex Newsman (Romford Area)
Albert Howgego who was age 28 and single  (born 1888 )  a Hay & Straw merchant applied for further Exemption on Business grounds.  I believe this would have been exemption from WW1  :-\
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: keyboard86 on Wednesday 13 April 16 18:36 BST (UK)
From freebmd (ref already given in other post)

Ethel C Howgego married Albert E Benfield in 1944    (Ethel middle name Caroline perhaps?)

District Romford, quarter September, page no 4a, vol 1188

To clarify this one, her name at death was Ethel Constance Benfield b 4th August 1924 and died May 2002 Colchester, Essex, she was the daughter of Albert Howgego b 1888 and Ethel MAY Howgego?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 13 April 16 19:19 BST (UK)
Re the (further) exemption of the Albert of Lake's Cottages, Dagenham in September 1916
 " two months was granted, no further appeal to be made without permission."

On the 1918 electoral roll, that Albert was at Lake's Farm Cottages, an absent NM voter.
Ditto spring 1919.
But in autumn 1919 he was not listed at the address and, if it's the same Albert at another address in Dagenham then he was no longer in the forces.

So the dates from the SWB roll for Albert Howgego, Labour Corps, 530473, enlisted 1 January 1917, discharged 1 August 1919 could fit the Dagenham man.

Dagenham Albert does appear to be the chap marrying Ethel (May) Warren in the appropriate district in Dec qtr 1918. He would still have been in the army.
Wouldn't the marriage certificate tell you what regiment or corps he was in?

Albert and Ethel had a son born 19 November 1919, died Southend 2003 -
Albert E Howgego, birth registered Dec qtr 1919, Romford
In the death indexes, however,  he is Albert Reginald Howgego.
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: keyboard86 on Wednesday 13 April 16 19:52 BST (UK)
Hi again, and to complete the family of Albert Howgego and Ethel MAY Warren:-

Death Ethel May Howgego born 28th June 1894 Death Sept 1973 Hove, Sussex
Keyboard86
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 13 April 16 20:13 BST (UK)
That son Albert born 1919 is transcribed as Howgege on FreeBMD. Whatever that middle initial E on the birth reg was all about, seems that he married in Romford district in Sep 1941 (Albert R Howgego)
If Albert and Ethel had only the two children, then it comes down to whether you are descended from Albert Reginald Howgego?
If so, I would consider getting the 1918 marriage certificate of his parents. Should also help you with the medal.
John
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: keyboard86 on Wednesday 13 April 16 20:41 BST (UK)
Hi living next door I can see a John R Howgego 1877 and Annie 1880
Keyboard86
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: ahowgego on Thursday 14 April 16 02:14 BST (UK)
hi, you guys are great thank you.
i have traced my family line back to 1655, my GGfather was Henry/harry howgego
harry b 1873 d 1966 chelmsford
Parents M Eliza Morgan  25 oct 1840 and F Jeremiah 4 jun 1841 maningtree
he had 3 brothers and 2 sister ,
Albert was b 26th Feb 1871 mistley d 1953 manningtree.
would Albert be too old for the ww1 medal/
trying to find the right Albert to fit to the medal is key.
I bought the medal as i thought it cool with the same initial as me, and maybe return it to the right family.
i think the suffolk connection is not my man,
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: ahowgego on Thursday 14 April 16 02:24 BST (UK)
Could the brother of my ggf, be the same Albert in Suffolk as the ages are close, b 1871
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: ahowgego on Thursday 14 April 16 02:36 BST (UK)
just found out the my Albert from mistley married Alice d 1953 aged 82 mangintree. so not suffolk one,
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 14 April 16 08:26 BST (UK)
Just to add, I am not seeing a match on lives of WW1
https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/search#Category=lifestories&FreeSearch=howgego&PageIndex=1&PageSize=20
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: jonwarrn on Thursday 14 April 16 12:13 BST (UK)
Seem to be four Albert Howgegos
Albert Ernest born Ipswich 1893 was a driver in the Royal Field Artillery. Medals cant be his.
Albert born 1888 Dagenham
Albert born 1870 or 1871 Mistley. Your relative? He is there on the electorals in 1918/19, is not an absent voter. So most unlikely to be him.
Albert Edward born 1869 Ipswich. He would have been in his mid to late forties in 1916/17. Doesn't seem to have been married at that time. Conscription was introduced in 1916, for men up to 41. I think the upper age limit may have been raised later.
Bearing in mind their ages and the fact that all the records for the man in the Beds Regt/Labour Corps just say he was Albert, seems less likely to the one from Ipswich than the one from Dagenham?

Family Search, Essex Parish Registers
Albert Howgego
Marriage: 15 Dec 1918, Dagenham, Essex
Residence: Of This Parish Chadwell Heath
Marital Status: Single
Spouse: Ethel May Warren
Spouse's Residence: Of This Parish Chadwell Heath
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Film Number: 001472207

That film number, 1472114, is for the parish church of Dagenham, St Peter and St Paul.
I know there are a couple of people on here who kindly do Essex parish register look ups. Maybe if you asked, one of them might be able to give you any further info on the marriage record?
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: keyboard86 on Thursday 14 April 16 17:22 BST (UK)
just found out the my Albert from mistley married Alice d 1953 aged 82 mangintree. so not suffolk one,

Hi "Your Albert" looks to have married an Alice Maude Sadler March qtr 1900 Tendring 4a 606 in 1911 with Jeremiah by the looks of it.
He was a Blacksmith following him back funnily says born 14th December 1870 in 1939?


EDIT 1901 census

Jeremiah 60 occ Master Mariner (Retired) b Manningtree
Albert 30 Married occ Blacksmith b Mistley
John R 24 occ Labourer b Mistley
Alice 28 Married b Elmstead
Gertrude 25 Married b Chelmsford
Sidney 3 b London
Harry 2 b Chelmsford
Residing at Oxford Road, Railway Terrace,  Mistley
Census ref RG13/1701/28/9

John Robert Howgego has a British Army Service Record, he was in the 5th Battalion Essex Regiment Service Number 202249 aged 38, he looks to have served in the Labour Corps, no medals issued to him, Father & address as 1901 census
Keyboard86

PS just wondering why an Essex man would serve in Bedfordshire Labour Corps?

Daughter Alice Maude 1902 married a Stringer, is this correct?

Plus the daughter "Caroline"  marrying a Bartlett, where does this come from??

 :) How you have got back to 1655 without knowing the meaning of a reference ( Your reply 2) to a birth/marriage/death post 1837 makes me wonder just how many certificates you have obtained?
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: jonwarrn on Thursday 14 April 16 23:23 BST (UK)

PS just wondering why an Essex man would serve in Bedfordshire Labour Corps?


I think conscripted men had no choice as to what regiment they were in. They were probably sent to whichever regiment needed men most.
Albert must have been in the Bedfordshire Regiment originally, and was later transferred to the Labour Corps.
Wonder why he was discharged with wounds and given a silver war badge in 1919? Why would he need one then?

But there is no evidence that the Albert Howgego from Mistley was ever in the army, there is evidence that he wasn't in the army at the time the 1918 electoral register was compiled.
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: ahowgego on Saturday 16 April 16 01:59 BST (UK)
hi,
interesting look at the lives of the first war, i cant find my albert howgego #35916 there either, what would be the reason?
thats why i started looking at the other alberts,
most of my tree info comes from another lady tracing another branch back, i was filling in my branch .
i have the certs from my gg grand father that my mum got,
in the 1901 cenus jeremiah is my gg father. and sidney is my gfather.
 i am putting my tree up on wikitree.
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 16 April 16 09:06 BST (UK)
i am putting my tree up on wikitree.

You also seem to have put a question up on there within the last 24 hours about Albert from Mistley, and mention "his" medal card??
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: ahowgego on Saturday 16 April 16 15:41 BST (UK)
hi johnw65
yes i did put up a question, and i made the tree public, for other people to see the tree, i dont know if this is the right thing to do as im new to this, i live in America now thought maybe some body in nth America had Howgego relatives To connect with,
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: detectingdavid on Monday 02 January 17 18:42 GMT (UK)
Hi there,
I just found this thread online as I was looking for some info on an early 20thc token I found while metal detecting in Brentwood, Essex. UK.
Just wondering if its the same A Howgego?
Thanks
David
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: ahowgego on Monday 02 January 17 20:03 GMT (UK)
hi David.
Thanks for the pics, i will look into it, thanks for the lead, the token is very nice condition, I bought a token a couple of months ago from the ahowgego potato sellers in bishop gate markets in London, i never new there was a seller in dagenham.
andrew
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: detectingdavid on Monday 02 January 17 21:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Andrew,
No problem, I'd be interested to hear what your investigation turns up.
Best of luck
David
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: keyboard86 on Tuesday 03 January 17 03:49 GMT (UK)
Hi the token could belong to Alfred Howgego in 1911, in 1901 Alfred 34 with wife Edith at same address Lakes Farm, Halbutt Street, Dagenham
Census Ref RG13/1645/98/44

In the 1902 Kellys Directory Alfred Howgego jnr was a Market Gardener

Keyboard86
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: Juninho on Sunday 26 February 17 15:09 GMT (UK)
Hi all, just found this after having an absence of many years from family history. My grandmother was Annie Eleanor Howgego, descended from Robert Hugegoe and Anne Gerrard; Lawford circa 1700. Thats where I was around about 1989. I also have a tree from Australia going back to  Thomas Howgego and Mahala Youngs. Best wishes, Martin.
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: Caroline Bartlett on Friday 05 May 17 10:01 BST (UK)
Hi,

I am Caroline Bartlett, and my grandad (mothers father) was Albert Reginald Howgego (19-11-19)

Can I help?


Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: Juninho on Sunday 07 May 17 16:57 BST (UK)
Hi Caroline, I am Martin Lowery b1955, Middlesbrough, N Yorks. All this computer FH is very new to me, and to be honest I just put in a search and this thread came up. I suppose I was just excited to find others researching Howgego, which wasn,t the case back in the 80,s. Anyway, my Grandmother(Dad,s mum) Annie Eleanor was born in Stockton 18.11.1891. Going back in order; Edward John Howgego b1848 Whitby; Joseph Jeremiah Howgego b 1826 Newton, Northumberland; John Howgego b 1793 Harwich; Jeremiah Howgego b1752 Bradfield; Jeremiah Howgego b1728 Lawford; Robert Hugegoe b c1700 Lawford. They moved up and down the east coast as Master Mariners,Coastguards, Preventive boatmen and Sailmakers.
 Many years ago I made a note of a Mahala Youngs /Howgego that I found at a local LDS library, for no other reason than I,d never come across a Mahala before and wondered if there may be a connection to my Howgego,s. Years later I was contacted by a lovely lady in Wales who also was descended from Howgego,s , and was a distant cousin. In the course of swapping information she sent me a copy of a tree from Australia of a Dr Francis G Smith and his wifes Grandmother was Ada Hannah Howgego b1862 Bradfield d. of a Jeremiah Howgego b 1841 Manningtree, who was the son of Thomas Howgego b 1797 Manningtree and Mahala Youngs b 1805.
 Only recently,  through info from this thread and others and subsequently using the computer have I managed to find the link, I hope.  I only have this rough sketched at the moment to try and get it in order, but if Thomas Howgego b 1797 Bradfield is descended from Thomas b 1736 with a Thomas b 1736 Manningtree who marries Eliz Polly in between, the link is  then with Jeremiah b 1728 Lawford and their father is Robert Hugegoe b c1700 Lawford  :)
 If you have any info that can prove or disprove this, that would be great. Look forward to hearing from you.
   Regards,
     Martin
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: Caroline Bartlett on Sunday 07 May 17 20:04 BST (UK)
Martin,

Wow, you have done a lot of research. Unfortunately I have not researched my family tree very much but came across this conversation by chance after recognising the names Ethel and Albert were my great grandparents names and was surprised to see my name appearing. I had started a family tree on geni and think they share info to find matches.

I know Albert and Ethel lived in Ardleigh Green, Hornchurch, Essex and had horses as
my grandad (Albert Reginald Howgego b1919) told me how he would hide under their horse when he was in trouble as his mum (Ethel) didn't like them. My grandad had a sister called Connie (must be Ethel Constance Howgego, who married Benfield ) but they lost contact.

My mum reports that her grandad did crawl some distance after being wounded during WW1 but wasnt aware of the full details.

I 'interviewed' my grandparents when I was younger so I will try to find it to see if I learn anything about his uncles, aunts or grandparents, and see if they line up with any of your names. I will post on here if I find anything out.

Caroline b1985
Title: Re: albert and ethel howgego
Post by: Juninho on Sunday 14 May 17 20:53 BST (UK)
Hi Caroline, I,m still trying to piece this all together. Need to draw a bigger family tree I think. I,ll let you know as soon as I can confirm anything. Thanks for the info.

Martin