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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: RamRod78 on Wednesday 06 April 16 17:39 BST (UK)

Title: Ramsey's in West Ham/Plaistow & Stepney - 1800's
Post by: RamRod78 on Wednesday 06 April 16 17:39 BST (UK)
Hi,

Looking to see if anyone else has some Ramsey family history in the Stepney & West Ham/Plaistow areas around the 1800's?

My paternal line goes back to a George William Ramsey b. 31 Aug 1878 in Stepney, London, son of William.  He moved to West Ham/Plaistow area in early 1900'S and married Jane Elizabeth Hutchines in 1904. 

I have good records from the marriage on, but cannot trace this line back any further.  I cannot find a birth record for George, nor can I find any census record prior to 1911.  It is likely he was working on ships and also illiterate. I have no other info on William other than his name.

So if anyone does have some Ramsey in their tree from Stepney or Plaistow in the 1800's, please get in touch :)

p.s. There is a George William b. Poplar in 1876, which is a different family line.  However, I am on ancestry and would love to build a tree of all the various Ramsey lines in the area, if it can help gather the bigger picture.

Cheers,
Iain
Title: Re: Ramsey's in West Ham/Plaistow & Stepney - 1800's
Post by: suzard on Wednesday 06 April 16 22:17 BST (UK)
do you have the marriage certificate?? If so what is father's occupation and who were witnesses??

Was George William married previously ? or was Jane Elizabeth ??

there is a daughter Lizzie b c 1900 - pre George William and jane Elizabeth's marriage???

Suz

Title: Re: Ramsey's in West Ham/Plaistow & Stepney - 1800's
Post by: RamRod78 on Wednesday 06 April 16 23:46 BST (UK)
Hi, and thanks for the reply!

The father, William Ramsey, is recorded as a Railway Servant.

The witnesses were A.J.Ramsey and Eliza Ramsey, who i'm assuming were Brother and Sister/Sister-in-law/Mother.

Both previously unmarried.

Yes, I have Lizzie and their other children.... And can work back the Hutchines line.  I'm just stuck going back on the Ramsey line.

Thanks for your help!
Title: Re: Ramsey's in West Ham/Plaistow & Stepney - 1800's
Post by: suzard on Wednesday 06 April 16 23:55 BST (UK)
do you have Lizzie's birth reg/baptism record - as it seems she was born c.1900 which was before the marriage

Suz
Title: Re: Ramsey's in West Ham/Plaistow & Stepney - 1800's
Post by: RamRod78 on Thursday 07 April 16 01:28 BST (UK)
I can find no official birth record for Lizzie, only Census entries.... Living relatives have memory of her, and I will be trying to find out more from them.
Title: Re: Ramsey's in West Ham/Plaistow & Stepney - 1800's
Post by: Lily M on Thursday 07 April 16 08:02 BST (UK)
There's an Arthur J. Ramsey b.1876/78 Bow/lPlaistow, living in West Ham with wife, Eliza, in 1901 and 1911.

Haven't been able to connect him to George William yet though
Title: Re: Ramsey's in West Ham/Plaistow & Stepney - 1800's
Post by: Lily M on Thursday 07 April 16 08:59 BST (UK)
This might just be a coincidence, as there are a few Arthur and George Tuckers about.   And neither of the Ramsey boys mention Kentish Town

1891  West Ham  New Barn Street


Amongst others are:

William Ramsey  head  52  railway wagon inspector Glos.
Sarah  wife  38  London
7 children
Charles H Tucker step-son  16  Kentish Town
Arthur J        "         "          14    "
George W      "         "          12     "
Title: Re: Ramsey's in West Ham/Plaistow & Stepney - 1800's
Post by: kanskar on Thursday 07 April 16 10:17 BST (UK)
Marriage 1881 jun qtr

William Ramsey - Sarah Jane Tucker - Pancras 1b 172.

1881 census:
14 Grafton terrace, Kentish Town

Jane Tucker 30 b. Kentish Town
Cashiers Book Worker (says married)

Charles Tucker 6
Arthur Tucker 5
George Tucker 2
All born Kentish Town

Poss birth reg:
George William Tucker
Dec 1878 Qtr - Pancras 1b 139


Can't see a Tucker marriage to a Sarah Jane in Pancras in the 1870s, however have seen:

Birth reg - St Pancras Dec 1850 Qtr
Sarah Jane Tucker 1 311
Title: Re: Ramsey's in West Ham/Plaistow & Stepney - 1800's
Post by: suzard on Thursday 07 April 16 13:02 BST (UK)
wonder if this is William in 1881?
104 Weedington Rd Kentish Town
William Ramsey widower 40 Wagon repairer Kempsford Glos
Lancelot son 15 Kempsford GloErnest son 10 Kentish Town
William H son 6 Kensington
Rose daughter 4 Kensington
RG11 217 119 45

Suz
Title: Re: Ramsey's in West Ham/Plaistow & Stepney - 1800's
Post by: suzard on Thursday 07 April 16 13:17 BST (UK)
and in 1871
14 Golburn Rd
Kensington
William Ramsey head M 32 Kempsford Gloucester
Harriett wife 34 kempsford
Lancelot son 4 Kempsford
Ernest son 8mths Middlesex
RG10 47 65 48
Suz
Title: Re: Ramsey's in West Ham/Plaistow & Stepney - 1800's
Post by: suzard on Thursday 07 April 16 13:38 BST (UK)
This might just be a coincidence, as there are a few Arthur and George Tuckers about.   And neither of the Ramsey boys mention Kentish Town

1891  West Ham  New Barn Street


Amongst others are:

William Ramsey  head  52  railway wagon inspector Glos.
Sarah  wife  38  London
7 children
Charles H Tucker step-son  16  Kentish Town
Arthur J        "         "          14    "
George W      "         "          12     "

Good find - looks like this is the correct family

I'll post the full census and reference (we are supposed to do our own transcriptions & give reference (copyright issues)

189154 New barn St Plaistow W Ham
William H Ramsey Head M 52 Railway Wagon Inspector Gloucestershire
Sarah J wife 38 London
Launcelott Ramsey son S 24 Railway Shunter Gloucester
Ernest Ramsey son S 20 Gas works Westbourne Park
William H Ramsey son 16 tates sugar refinery Westbourne Park
Rosetta M Ramsey daughter 14 Westbourne Park
Amy G Ramsey daughter 9 Plaistow
Frank A Ramsy son 9 Plaistow
Mark H Ramsey son 2 Plaistow
Charles H Tucker stepson 16 Tates sugar refinery Westbourne Park
Arthur J Tucker stepson 14 kentish town
George William Tucker step son 12 Kentish Town
RG12 1323 30 53

1901
William Ramsey head widower 62 Railway Examiner Gloucester
Amy Ramsey daughter 19 Waitress West Ham
Mark Ramsey son 12 West Ham
Phoebe Ramset daughter 8 West ham
Charles Tucker S son 27 General lab Kentish Town
RG13 1577 67 10

looks like William's death reg
Mar qtr 1911 W ham age 73 4a 166

Suz
Title: Re: Ramsey's in West Ham/Plaistow & Stepney - 1800's
Post by: suzard on Thursday 07 April 16 13:46 BST (UK)
I have encountered a situation similar to this previously
a 2x great uncle of mine was illegit and Mum married a few years later and on census uncle appears using Mum's married name
We thought uncle had not married as we could not find a marriage reg for him and his "wife" but they used their Mum's married name -and their children carried on this name
until researching we did not know uncle was illegit
We found marriage cert in his birth name (mother's maiden name ) -when we sent for the certificate there was a note on it - 3 months after their marriage they had gone to court and had uncles name changed to Mum's married name !!!
Something similar may have happened here

Suz
Title: Re: Ramsey's in West Ham/Plaistow & Stepney - 1800's
Post by: RamRod78 on Thursday 07 April 16 16:24 BST (UK)
Thanks everyone for the leads  ;D

Sometimes it just helps to have a fresh set of eyes look at it eh? 

I will go and pull the census records and build this in Ancestry to see if this all ties up.

Thanks again!!
Iain
Title: Re: Ramsey's in West Ham/Plaistow & Stepney - 1800's
Post by: RamRod78 on Thursday 07 April 16 16:36 BST (UK)
Well I found the marriage:

5 JUN 1881 - Old St Pancras, Middlesex

William Ramsey, Full Age, Widower, Servant
Sarah Jane Tucker, Full Age, Spinster

Both Fathers listed as dead.

Title: Re: Ramsey's in West Ham/Plaistow & Stepney - 1800's
Post by: RamRod78 on Thursday 07 April 16 18:20 BST (UK)
I have added everything here to a test tree in Ancestry and it indeed points to being the right family.

Will get GW Tucker's birth certificate ordered, and see if I can confirm Arthur J Ramsey/Tucker to be the same person.

Thank you all so much for the fresh look as this has been stumping me for a while! :) :) :)
Title: Re: Ramsey's in West Ham/Plaistow & Stepney - 1800's
Post by: RamRod78 on Thursday 07 April 16 23:15 BST (UK)
There's an Arthur J. Ramsey b.1876/78 Bow/lPlaistow, living in West Ham with wife, Eliza, in 1901 and 1911.

Haven't been able to connect him to George William yet though

I found a WWI pension record for Arthur J, listing Eliza and all the children found in the 1911 census.  While the census is under "Ramsey", the pension record lists them all as "Tucker".

So I think that just about confirms the link.....

Again, thank you all so much.  :)