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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: murton on Saturday 02 April 16 12:42 BST (UK)
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Re Constance Muriel Steell, Is there the remote possibility that anyone may have any details of this lady? I trust that I have identified the correct County?
The only information I have is that she was a Nurse (possibly a V.A.D.) who died on duty 20th March 1917 serving at Bradford War Hospital. . She is buried in Colinton Parish Churchyard, Edinburgh, suggesting that this was her hometown.
Grateful for any assistance.
Tony
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Hi Tony the only record I can see in Scotland for a Constance M Steell is in the 1891 census living at her grandfather's house
2.Palmerton Place Edinburgh
Gourlay Steell age 72 animal painter
Jessie G Steel age 30 daughter
Eliza Steel age 31 british subject b Germany visitor daughter in law
Constance M Steell b 1888 age 3 british subject USA
1901 census address Hawthorn Vale Kinross
Edwin Landseer John Steell age 38 retired farmer
Lylie L Steell age 41 british subject Berlin
Constance M Steell british subject Florida USA age 13
You would really need to order a copy of the death certificate to see who her father was to see if this is the same person
Rosie
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Edit - This post crossed with Rosie's post above
I see from FreeBMD that she was aged 26 when she died. So she was born in 1890/1891.
There are no births of a Constance Steel* in Scotland between 1885 and 1895. However there are three Constance Muriels
Surname Gallie, born Patrick 1889, died Bo'ness 1978
Surname Hines, born Kirkintilloch 1889, no marriage or death in Scotland
Surname Harrison, born Edinburgh 1894, died Uphall 1986
There are two marriages of Constance M Hines in FreeBMD, both after 1917.
There is a marriage of a Constance M Ratcliff to Claude W Steele in Edmonton in 1915, but there is no Constance Muriel Ratcliff(e) in FreeBMD.
There are no relevant births or marriages of a Constance Steel* in Northern Ireland.
There is no Constance Muriel Steel* in the 1911 census index to which I have access. There is just one Constance Steel*, aged 20, born Liverpool, daughter of George Steel, manual training teacher, and Jane Steel both born Liverpool.
This one is the right age, and seems to be the only candidate. However I cannot explain where she acquired a middle name, or why she was buried in Colinton, both of which would seem to rule her out.
I suggest going for the burial record, which should tell you who bought the lair, and who else (if anyone) is buried in the same lair. See http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20019/burials_and_cremations/316/burial_records
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You would really need to order a copy of the death certificate to see who her father was to see if this is the same person
Unfortunately she died in England, and English death certificates don't tell you who the parents of the deceased were. So this won't help.
However she does look like a better candidate than the one born in Liverpool.
I thought there might have been a death announcement in The Scotsman, but there doesn't seem to be.
Still think the burial is the one to go for.
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You would really need to order a copy of the death certificate to see who her father was to see if this is the same person
Unfortunately she died in England, and English death certificates don't tell you who the parents of the deceased were. So this won't help.
However she does look like a better candidate than the one born in Liverpool.
My mistake I thought the father's name would have been mentioned.. I did see the death for Constance given a birth year about 1891 being out by a few years but then some of these are never Accurate ..There is also a record for E L J Steell Scottish farmer travelling with Mrs Steell to New York 1886 so you never know
Rosie
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Forfarian, perhaps the IT problems at Scotlandspeople have messed up your 1911 search.
677/00 004/00 011 aged 23 Colinton.
Edwin L J Steell 47 Manufacturers (Tobacco) Agent b Edinburgh
Eliza L Steell 47 b Germany Brit Subject by Parentage
Constance M daughter 23 b U.S. America Brit Subject by Parentage
24 yrs married 1 child 1 living
Belmont Road "Ardenlea" Parish of Juniper Green Civil Parish Colinton.
There is a mention of a Mr "Steel" in memories at http://www.junipergreencc.org.uk/jg300-1/thomson.html
and her grandfather was Gourlay Steell - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gourlay_Steell.
Her parents died in the early 1940's.
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No, I was only looking in England. Obviously on a wild goose chase!
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Thanks all for your interest. Sorry for delay with response but have a rheumatoid problem that is currently requiring medical attention and is seriously affecting my concentration so at the moment unable to go any further. However, the following , from your posts, appears to be the most appropriate but let me know what you think!
The 1891 Census quotes Constance Muriel Steell as living with her grandfather, Gourlay Steell, age 72 at 2 Palmerton Place, Edinburgh age 3 years suggesting a birth year of 1888 and born in the U.S.A. Also resident is her mother Eliza Steell age 31 born Germany and her aunt Jessie G. Steell age 30.
There also appears to be a record of an E .L .J .Steell, Scottish farmer travelling with Mrs. Steell to New York in 1886; appears to fit in with the dates above and Constances birth year.
The 1901 Census lists the family living; I assume their own residence, at Hawthorn Vale, Kinross.
Edwin Landseer John Steell age 38 a retired farmer (a bit young but thats what it says)
Lylie L. Steell age 41 British subject born Berlin, Germany.
Constance M. Steell age 13 British subject born Florida U.S.A,
The 1911 Census quotes Residence Belmont Road, Ardenlea Parish of Juniper Green Civil Parish Colington, Edwin L.J. Steel age 47. Manufacturers (Tobacco) Agent. Eliza L. Steell age 47 (I think that is a typo error, should be 51). Constance M. Daughter age 23. (Would make her 29 at death.
Constance died on duty at Bradford War Hospital 29th March 1917 and is buried in Colinton Parish Churchyard, Edinburgh.
Tony
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Hope you are feeling a bit better now think this could be a possibility what is your relationship to this person ...There is a lot of information on the grandfather Gourlay Steell and his family ...Maybe you should try and see if there are any nursing records for Constance
Rosie
Added you can also check the newspapers for details of funeral arrangements to see what names are mentioned
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The Death notice in "The Scotsman" only mentions that she died at Bradford War Hospital and the only daughter of E.L. Steell, Juniper Green. Funeral at Colinton Cemetery on Friday 23rd at two o'clock. Friends please accept this (the only) intimation and invitation.
Her father had in March 1915 written to the paper calling for a Citizens Corps to be raised in the Colinton, Juniper Green and Currie district.
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The Death notice in "The Scotsman" only mentions that she died at Bradford War Hospital and the only daughter of E.L. Steell, Juniper Green. Funeral at Colinton Cemetery on Friday 23rd at two o'clock. Friends please accept this (the only) intimation and invitation
Well done so this is the right person then :)
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Rosie & Une
Sorry for delay but having a difficult time and waiting for possible surgery on right foot. However; no Rosie I am not a relative she is one of my 4000+ unfortunate ladies I am now struggling to look after. My initial project was to get a photo of their graves knowing that someone had visited them but now try to get more personal details.
However just applied for a Death Certificate and got a phone call this morning from the GRO as I quoted her age as 29 and the lady said that she has a D.C. with an age of 26, however Rosie way back you quoted an entry on the 1891 census that Constance was quoted as 3 years old suggesting that she was born in 1888 making her age in 1917 as 29. However I wonder if she should have been quoted in the census as 3 months old that would have made her 26 in 1917; anyway I have accepted the D.C. which she is posting tomorrow. All the other details on the D.C. Appear to agree with all our other info.
Am also awaiting a response from the B.R.C. to ascertain if she was a V.A.D.
Will be in touch later.
Tony
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Yes the age details vary quite a lot on the census forms it would have been easier if we had a birth certificate in America but no luck there ...Any way keep us informed and hope you are feeling better soon
Rosie
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Hi Tony,
Don't know if this will be much help to you but there is an entry on FIND A GRAVE for her burial at Colinton Parish Church. No date of birth though.
It is a beautiful spot and I have visited it myself looking for family graves.
Sorry, forgot to take the exact web address for FIND A GRAVE but if you just enter it into your search engine it should bring it up ok.
I manage some of the Scottish graves for my family on this site.
Best wishes,
Dorrie.
P.S. Hope your health improves soon.
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Tony, Constance was in the Edinburgh area at the time of the 1911 census. Ages showing as 23, from the general index. Three censuses show her as born c. 1887-8.
Monica
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Monica
It would appear that, for some reason, the census's got it wrong or the information given on the census returns was wrong. You will see from a previous post that the GRO phoned me this morning to say that the Death Certificate they have she is quoted as 26 when she died; so there has been some confusion whil she was alive or some confusion regarding her death age. The D.C, might give a clue when I get it.
Tony
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I would recommend that you look at http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/scottishwargraves-post-17003.html
There you will find a photograph of her memorial stone, her name on the Parish War memorial and further information.
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I would recommend that you look at http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/scottishwargraves-post-17003.html
There you will find a photograph of her memorial stone, her name on the Parish War memorial and further information.
Pity it did not list her age
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Also, she is listed in the Roll of Honour at the Scottish National War Memorial, Edinburgh Castle.
http://snwm.org/content/roll-search/
Dorrie
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..... but it does.
Her father at the time of his marriage on 3 August 1886 was an "Orange Planter" with the address of Lane Park Florida.
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..... but it does.
Her father at the time of his marriage on 3 August 1886 was an "Orange Planter" with the address of Lane Park Florida.
Missed that one should have put my glasses on ;D
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Well! I have Constances Death Certificate and is quoted as age 26 making her birth year 1891, her death was registered by her Father, Edwin L.J. Steell; who , I am sure, would have been aware of her age? Her cause of death was Cerebro Spinal Meningitis.
I am still confused regarding her birth year and I come back to the reference in the 1891 census of her age of 3 years. The 1891 census was conducted on Sunday 5 April that could suggest that she was born in January 1891 and her age would have been 3 Months when he census was taken ????
You are doing well Rosie; an orange tree planter in Florida, where Constance was born. I am awaiting a reply from GRO regarding where I could obtain a Birth Certificate; I understand that unless it was registered with the British Consulate it is going to be difficult we will have to see!
My life is so slow now that I have to find time to look after my unfortunate ladies.
Tony
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So we have three census enumerators (1891, 1901, 1911) who got it wrong.
A memorial stone that got it wrong.
A registration that was possibly wrong.
The image of the 1891 census (forgive me Rootschat for I have sinned again).
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Forgive me Une but if Daddy didn't know how old his daughter was when she died who did? After all he must have given the details to the Registrar. I can only quote what I see as reasonable.
I am making an attempt to obtain a Birth Certificate that is an even more difficult process especially for my physical condition. By a miracle I may obtain a B.C,
Tony
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Hello all,
It looks to me like the age at death for Constance, at 26 years is a grief stricken fathers mistake at the shock of his only childs death. All the other evidence points to a birth 1888/89.
Her parents Edwin Landeer John Steell, married Eliza Levy Sanbach, 1886. Skirling, Peebles.
There is also a death for her mother Eliza Levy Sanbach/ Steell, 1942. age 83 years, Newington, Edinburgh.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Yes would agree with the age of death being recorded wrong the age on the stone says 28 years the birth certificate will confirm ....Births from Uk Registers British Consulates now showing any thing :(
Rosie
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I thought maybe finding a incoming passenger shipping manifest just prior to the date of the 1891 census would help further, but have not been able to find anything (on a/try). Can see outgoing entries to the US for Edwin L J Steell and one with wife on outgoing manifests but not seeing anything so far for return trips to the UK.
Monica
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I thought maybe finding a incoming passenger shipping manifest just prior to the date of the 1891 census would help further, but have not been able to find anything (on a/try). Can see outgoing entries to the US for Edwin L J Steell and one with wife on outgoing manifests but not seeing anything so far for return trips to the UK.
Monica
I had the same problem Monica not seeing them on the incoming lists
???
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Thanks Monica & Rosie for your efforts. I have sent a request to the G.R.O. to see if Constance is on the British Consul Register so far no response. If I get a 'No' answer I will then try the American Embassy in London.
My concentration is now virtually nil as I have now developed a bone growth in the base of my left foo and an absess and have been referred to the Podiatry Clinic God knows how long that will be so I am going to suggest to my GP that I am prepared to go Private. See what result that will have.
Tony
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Tony, hope medicals go well for you and you have pain under control.
Monica
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There is a photo of Ardenlea here
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4913854
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Despite my own physical and concentration problems and not a great deal of assistance from Constance I felt it time I brought this thread to an end, so this is my profile for Constance.
Constance Muriel Steell was born 1888 *** in Florida U.S.A. to British parents Edwin Landseer Steell and Lylie L Steel, born 1869 in Berlin , Germany. Her parents wree on holiday in the U.S.A.
The 1891 census records Constance, age 3 years, *** was living with her grandfather, Gourlay Steell aged 72, an animal painter, at 2 Palmeaston Place, Edinburgh with her mother and aunt Jessie G. Steell and the 1901 census records Constance living with her parents at Hawthorn Vale, Kinross, Scotland.
No further useful information was found on the web and a letter to the G.R.O. to ascertain if Constances name appeared on the British Colonial Birth Register went unanswered.
I did manage to obtain her Death Certificate that records she died, on duty, on 20th March 1917 at Bradford War Hospital, Horton, as a Hospital Nurse, from Cerebro Spinal Meningitis. Her death was registered by her father of Ardenlea, Juniper Green, Edinburgh and her age quoted as 26 ***
The British Red Cross responded to my request concerning her nursing status by advising me that they had searched all their records for V.A.Ds, VAD casualties, First World War cards for trained nurses and personnel in military hospitals and found no record of Constance so it is assumed that she was in fact a trainee nurse.
Constance is buried in Colington Parish Churchyard, Edinburgh her headstone quotes age as 29.
*** It would appear that the age,26, on the Death Certificate is incorrect
Thanks all for your assistance.
Regards,
Tony.
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Your welcome Tony hope you are feeling better soon :)
Rosie
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I have to hang my head in shame, due to my medical condition affecting my concentration I did not check for a STEELL when I found her name on Scottish War Mermorials forum. It appears I already had her in my records so here is a more accurate profile of Constance Muriel Steell :-
Constance Muriel Steell was born 1888 *** in Florida U.S.A. to British parents Edwin Landseer Steell and Lylie L Steel, born 1869 in Berlin , Germany. Her parents were on holiday in the U.S.A.
The 1891 census records Constance, age 3 years, *** was living with her grandfather, Gourlay Steell aged 72, an animal painter, at 2 Palmerstone Place, Edinburgh with her mother and aunt Jessie G. Steell and the 1901 census records Constance living with her parents at Hawthorn Vale, Kinross, Scotland.
No further useful information was found on the web and a letter to the G.R.O. to ascertain if Constances name appeared in the British Colonial Birth Register went unanswered***.
I did manage to obtain her Death Certificate that records she died from Cerebro Spinal Meningitis on 20th March 1917 whilst serving as a hospital nurse at Bradford War Hospital, Horton, Her death was registered by her father of Ardenlea, Juniper Green, Edinburgh and her age quoted as 26 ***
The British Red Cross responded to my request concerning her nursing status by advising me that they had searched all their records and found no record of a Constance Muriel Steell***. However, Constance is commemorated on the Colington Parish War Memorial and the Roll of Honour in Juniper Parish Church, Edinburgh as a V.A.D. and her grave memorial has a large Red Cross impression on its surface
Constance is buried in Colington Parish Churchyard, Edinburgh her headstone quotes age as 29
*** It would appear that the age, 26, on the Death Certificate is incorrect and possibly an error in her non inclusion in British Red Cross records. If Constances birth was not registered in the USA British Colonial Birth Register she would in fact have been an American citizen..
Forgive my error.
Tony